[Micky C]

Polymer by Plagman

[Stabs]

speaking of that, where's the pretty shiny water gone we saw ages eons ago?

[Daedolon]

Muelsa ate it.

[Stabs]

So i played a game with lunick on the all time classic betaone map, what i love about is its open endedness i think it will be my fave all time map.

What i was thinking was to update this classic with more moden techniques, TROR water, add trims, polymer lights, texture fixes and visually make it amazing, add some atmosphere where it is under attack, more monsters and action too. With dukeplus i could make a more presentable story to go along with it.

but as a level i wanted to make it so you needed 3 keys from 3 locations with a different boss's you can access at your leisure to open the exit, also a hidden 4th key to open an armory to some unlock serious fire power (only place you can get the DEV ) currently you can run to the exit (in 0.21) with no obstacles.

I think its the perfect map with some tweaking to make a good System Shock / Doom / SOTN / Metal Gear mix ( add hidden vents to bypass more action orientated areas ? )

I asked lunick and he can't seem to get in contact with the author but he dosn't seem to think he would mind.

[Stabs]

just a tweak after an hour or so
stuck between doom and system shock

[Micky C]

The lighting and atmosphere looks pretty good, but that's the 1996 map by Robert Travis right? The detailing and architecture is extremely basic by today's standards unfortunately. Polymer lighting would definitely soup it up, but there's a limit to how much that will improve the look. On the other hand the low detail level helps ensure a reasonable framerate.

[Stabs]

yeah iam going to putting some modern tweaks to it to make it not look so bland without taking away level flow, i just always loved how open this map was just plan to make it so you can't just speed run to the end and make it look nicer.

[Jblade]

Quote

I asked lunick and he can't seem to get in contact with the author but he dosn't seem to think he would mind.

Why can't you do it? If the readme file says it's ok to modify and release the map, but if it doesn't than don't do it.

[Lunick]

James, on 30 January 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

Why can't you do it? If the readme file says it's ok to modify and release the map, but if it doesn't than don't do it.

That's probably why because the readme says nothing about that. The last thing I have seen the mapper do is design the levels for Manhattan Project.

[Stabs]

meh heaps of loser dj's remix/sample a song and make money of it, cover songs etc etc

readme says nothing about it iam not looking for cash or take credit for the whole map, i want something to do, i love that map and iam going to polish it damn it

I wouldnt be fussed if people took on DNE and further modded and polished it as long as i still get cred, you do this for the love of it, this is not a cash thing

[Jblade]

It's not the same thing (and the 'loser DJ's still get permission otherwise they'd get sued) and it's not your map dude. If he doesn't explicitly forbid it than upload it but don't be a dick about it if he re-appears out of the blue and asks you to take it down (alternatively, start a new map rather than re-working an ancient one?)

[NNC]

DanM, on 29 January 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

So i played a game with lunick on the all time classic betaone map, what i love about is its open endedness i think it will be my fave all time map.

What i was thinking was to update this classic with more moden techniques, TROR water, add trims, polymer lights, texture fixes and visually make it amazing, add some atmosphere where it is under attack, more monsters and action too. With dukeplus i could make a more presentable story to go along with it.

but as a level i wanted to make it so you needed 3 keys from 3 locations with a different boss's you can access at your leisure to open the exit, also a hidden 4th key to open an armory to some unlock serious fire power (only place you can get the DEV ) currently you can run to the exit (in 0.21) with no obstacles.

I think its the perfect map with some tweaking to make a good System Shock / Doom / SOTN / Metal Gear mix ( add hidden vents to bypass more action orientated areas ? )

I asked lunick and he can't seem to get in contact with the author but he dosn't seem to think he would mind.

Betaone is probably the weakest map by Travis. It was clearly surpassed by Betatwo, Anslem and Aztec. The living ocean part was remade into Smithsonian Terror (which was also a level by Travis) too.

[Stabs]

its not like iam going to slap the first episode together of official levels with more monsters

I said this would be an official release? its just some fun ill just release on duke4

[Jblade]

Good to see you're just dodging the issue completely, and you're not interested in respecting what other people might or might not want for their maps. Maybe the author doesn't want polymer lights all over his map? He probably won't care, but if he does I get the feeling you'd bury your head in the sand and ignore his requests because it's what you want to do.

[Stabs]

Dont act like you know what i would do given a situation, and just drop the the psudeo armchair lawyer act that frequents these forums too often.

[Jblade]

I'm trying to tell you that it's not a good idea to take an old map that you don't have explicit permission to modify and do what you want with it. Why is that so hard to understand? You can't just do what you want, which is what you're coming across like even if that's not your intention - and don't try to discard that side of it by throwing around words like "it's just for fun!" and "you're an armchair lawyer!"

You won't even say that you would take it down if he didn't like it! That's really all I want you to say, that you would respect his wishes (which I know he won't come out of the blue, the guy is long gone) and take it down IF he objected to it. It's the principle of it, there's been many mappers I've known who are proud and protective of their work and they wouldn't appreciate some guy they don't even know who hasn't even attempted contact taking their work and changing it around and throwing lights in it because they're bored and they want something to do.

[Stabs]

if he is not impressed i will take it down, but i dont do shitty work and i have no intentions to do other maps but betaone is special to me, one of the first user mpas i played A LOT when i first got duke3d when i was 13, 30 now, iam not just whacking lights everywhere, its a big overall, adding detail to bland corridors through sectors, but no real intentions to change layout.

what i mainly want to do is make 3 bosses and a key for each boss, once you have 3 keys you can open the exit compared to a 0:21 second speed run, iam sure the guy has no interest in updating it these days, my version has some shine / and decorative TROR ( will not change level layout ), you can access any area like you did before except there is 3 boss areas for keys.

its one map, lunik really has tried to conatact the author but he can't seem to get hold of him, come on i really don't think the dude will mind such an old and classic map being chosen for a graphical rehaul considering the hundreds before it, I certainly will not be dropping the authors name from the credits, hell i can make a popup in game at the start explicitly stating the level and layout is travis's iam just bringing such a great map up to a more modern level.

at the end of the day you can look at a concept like alot of unofficial things

[Jblade]

Quote

if he is not impressed i will take it down,

That's all I was asking for, I was just concerned as I know several mappers who are protective of their work and was expressing my concerns about it. Glad to see we've reached an agreement though, for the record I actually do like the idea you had and there was a similar concept done in the Doom community (where authors took some wads made in 1996 and rebuilt them, only maps were permission was authorised though)

[Inspector Lagomorf]

As a die-hard classic gamer I'm not sure how I feel about modernizing 96 maps. I get the intent behind it, but it would be like trying to remake DooM in the Source engine. I feel like something would be lost as a result...

[Stabs]

worth a try be a good experiment, like i would not mind if someone had a clear plan to take the lead on DNE to bugfix and tweak the levels, even add decrotive TROR as long as its tasteful within a certain level, iam not looking to cheapen this map in anyway like made it a doom on steriods

anyway here is a sall map showing what my vision is for this

 BETAONEMOD.zip (101.3K)
Number of downloads: 189

only the first room, and an idea to make the corridors more techy and have some sort of cover.

[Micky C]

Just my personal opinion; I'd be flattered if someone decided to enhance one of my first maps (although now that I think about it, I probably wrote that people aren't allowed to modify them, but that was when of course I thought they were the best maps ever...), since it means at the very least that the map will receive new attention, and possibly be played by lots of new people.

On the subject of betaone, obviously it's a grey area since the text file doesn't say one way or the other and the author can't be contacted. However personally I never would have played the original (there's so much other content out there which is better quality that I haven't played yet), so this might be my ticket to give it a go. Plus I trust DanM's ability to churn out quality work. For what it's worth, from what very little I know about Travis, he was fairly laid back about his maps and would probably want as many people to play them as possible.
In fact, given his later work there's every indication that he'd be a little ashamed of betaone and would be grateful for the facelift

Just as long as he keeps away from Gambini's earlier maps...

[Stabs]

Gambini is in a league of his own, I don' t even think i could work out Gambinis kooky vanilla coding and scripting

[brownfarted]

Working on Mod



Much Shit
Very Dookie
Such Wow !

[The Commander]

I bet it will play like shit.

[Lunick]

Oh geez Brownfarted, you must be very knowledgeable with eduke32

[brownfarted]

Lunick, on 31 January 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Oh geez Brownfarted, you must be very knowledgeable with eduke32

THANK YOU ! I try to my most Shitty .

[Cage]

Fun with additive transparency:

[Jan Satcitananda]

Yup, additive blend ftw ^^ I bet you can do some cool shit with it.
Too bad Build engine can't handle more than a single tranlucency table (say, additive and multiplicative one at once).

[Helixhorned]

CraigFatman, on 02 February 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Too bad Build engine can't handle more than a single tranlucency table (say, additive and multiplicative one at once).

Actually, that wouldn't be too hard to implement. There's no dependency on the assumption that there's only one such table anywhere. If there's interest in this feature, I'll bump that item up my TODO list a bit; you'd have something like .pal for ceiling/floor/wall/sprite then, but indexing a blending table. Naturally, only the new internal map format could carry this information, and hence it would be exclusive to the Lunatic build.

[Mark]

In laymen's terms, what would that mean we could do with that new feature?

EDIT: never mind, Google has examples.