[ck3D]

Trying really hard not to showcase much, so here's a portrait of a chair in a random corridor from this morning, and a wee chunk of a rooftop section I just started building tonight, obviously all still WIP. Map 2 is nearing 850 sectors now and is already really big, but I'm still not sure whether or not I want to make it as huge as the first level, sometimes keeping things reasonable works best, but I also have the progression and pace of the episode to keep in mind. How I myself end up liking the turn the level takes will probably determine its final outcome (wait, that's every creation); so far I'm into it and enjoy adding to it, but I also can't wait to fine-tune a gazillion of little tweaks everywhere so that I'm even further immersed into the settings I've been imagining. But I'm just enjoying every moment of spare time I can get, and trying to optimize inspiration and schedule management.

edit - also in-editor shots due to laziness; for those who might be reading this and not know, the pink on that floor texture shows up as black in game

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[Maarten]

 ck3D, on 24 March 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

edit - also in-editor shots due to laziness; for those who might be reading this and not know, the pink on that floor texture shows up as black in game

Well, even when not showing much, it's nice to seee ur active & the shots looks nice

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Speed at bulding got a bit slower last weeks (busy days @ work) but still there is progress
1100 sectors, 9000 walls.

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[Merlijn]

Guess it's the day of the veteran mappers.

I also picked up mapping for Shaky Grounds again, got inspired by the amazing backdrops in Doom Eternal. Can you tell?

[ck3D]

Maarten, again I'm really looking forward to that map, the style looks super interesting to me. I hope it's somehow possible to get inside that Duke Burger, first thing that came to mind - secrets in places that look impossible to enter like this are the best secrets!

Merlijn this is awesome. I really, really like all those sceneries of destruction you build. In general I really like how you've been treating the scale of your maps, ever since Clear The Coast I'd say.

Just broke the 1000 sector barrier on map 2 (also the ones of 7500 walls and 2000 sprites, for those who like to keep count - I know I kind of do because the ratio of wall/sector/sprite per mapper is never the same). I'm super happy with how it's turning out and my vision for it is only getting more accurate, from now on I can tell it's going to be another huge level, but with a layout and general mechanics that work very differently from the first one that I'm really starting to pinpoint now. Also got a lot of semi-annoying terrain work done and now I can focus on filling the boxes in, with a clear idea of how it should work eventually.

I'll celebrate by sharing a bit more, which I will later either regret or use as motivation to go at it even harder. Although to be honest, I've been super on it over the past couple of days. Schedule is convenient right now, hope it stays that way a fair bit. Everything is still WIP,

1/ One of the most recent indoor areas I built in map 2 (side note: this is the chronological order I'm building them, but not their eventual place in the episode). The fallen shelf detail behind that wall (you can't see it that well from that angle) was fun to make. Ceiling is too flat for my tastes and will probably get retouched,

2/ 3/ 4/ 5/ Part of a destruction scene I just built tonight, with electrified water that flashes light, buzzes and fucks Duke up. On 4 you can see a good example of the 'vertical gradient lighting' technique I've been having fun using here and there in my last couple of maps, I think it has the potential to add a lot to the atmosphere in certain settings.
EDIT - yay, just spotted non-shaded walls on screen 2

6/ Another destruction scale, same WIP rooftop I showed last time, just with slightly more perspective to give a better sense of the scale. And this is a super tiny portion of the level.

7/ This one is from the starting area of map 1 (the one that's complete) with visibility turned down, and most spoilers out of the way. Sky texture is bogus as fuck but for some reason I still like it so far like I have for months, maybe it'll stay eventually, maybe not. That street is definitely less than 5% of the area of the map.

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[Sanek]

I don't have to visit porn sites anymore, because there's the stuff right here at duke4.

Seriously guys, it's great that such maps being developed right now, can't wait to play it! I was kinda worried when my recent maps was the only map released so far in 2020, almost 3 months ago. But seeing your WIP, I'd say that it'll definitely worth the wait.

@ck3d Hmm, looks like you're about to make a semi-sequel to endotheworld map, isn't it? Even if it's part of the episode. Also, the last screenshot instantly reminded me of your old map called Filler.

[ck3D]

Thanks, I mean I always kind of re-use the same old tricks of mine, what's a novelty in one level usually ends up part of the repertoire and integrated to all the following ones (I always seem to find new applications and disguises for them), there are so many fun ways one can tweak stuff with Build, those maps so far have a lot of such funky stuff. End Of The World was more chaotic with a clusterfuck of effects I had just learned, it really was a one-off type of release whereas those maps are generally more consistent I'd say, and come in a much bigger scale so it's only logical that the destruction grows with it. That colorful room/collapsed ceiling is the same one in several shots by the way, there's only one section like this in the level.

About the last shot looking like Filler, wow that's smart, I can see it now. But I'm not too surprised as it's my least favorite segment of the level (also the first one I designed), for it's the messiest texturing-wise when the rest feels cleaner and bigger. Its distinct look works in the context of how it's just an isolated portion of the map, though (and one that marks quite the contrast with the following one). Small uptown block vs., well, you'll see if I don't die before I complete this!

[Merlijn]

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Merlijn this is awesome. I really, really like all those sceneries of destruction you build. In general I really like how you've been treating the scale of your maps, ever since Clear The Coast I'd say.

Thanks man! Ever since The Imperium my maps have been become more large scaled and 'epic'. One of the side effects of working with William Gee and Dan I reckon.
The new Shaky Grounds will continue the scale of the last 2. Last one was mostly indoors, this one will reshift the focus to large and unique looking outdoor environments.

(PS: if you like my large scale stuff, you'll certainly like the map I made for the new DN:AA episode. )

Really curious about your new work, from the looks of it you continue to evolve and try new stuff which is great.

[ck3D]

Oh I wish I could find the time to play AA altogether. Just finding time to map is a blessing, but I'm looking forward to playing more once I have the luxury to, if ever.

Thanks for your appreciation, honestly to me it feels like all my past maps were pretty much warm-up maps at this stage, like every single one was a necessary step for me to better understand this or that mechanic be it in literal design or gameplay. Since Poison Heart I finally feel like I can churn out levels that are representative of my vision enough that I now feel comfortable tackling an episode but since that's a chronophagous enterprise, I essentially treat it as a project of a lifetime type of thing. It's still rooted in my essence, but I'm always trying to complete the picture, yeah (and I feel like I've gotten to a stage where I can feel free to try and move the pieces around as opposed to sweating it over technicalities, which wasn't always the case at all and only makes mapping now even more fulfilling).

What I'm basically trying to do here is take all the elements I think made Duke great for me: the open environments, the interconnected 2D layouts, possibilities of the 2.5D engine, pop culture references and visual storytelling, and basically update them to the 2020 scale of possibilities, all the while remaining true to the original game/assets (I'm still debating how much custom content to add with my own self so hard, but I have plenty of ideas in that department too). It's a very thin line I feel responsible if not downright stupid for even trying to walk, especially right now!

Is there a particularly popular thread dedicated to posting mapping tips on here? I've started writing down some of my personal quirks I've developed that I'd like to share sometime.

[Perro Seco]

 Hollaback Duke (defiatron), on 21 March 2020 - 07:13 PM, said:

Screenshot1.png
Final level of Blood And Ice! A lot of dead aliens here, but you're not the one who killed them. Who did all of this? Well, you'll find out very soon.
(text was made using deluxe paint. wow!)

I like it! I guess it's based on this beta screenshot:

 ck3D, on 27 March 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

7/ This one is from the starting area of map 1 (the one that's complete) with visibility turned down, and most spoilers out of the way. Sky texture is bogus as fuck but for some reason I still like it so far like I have for months, maybe it'll stay eventually, maybe not. That street is definitely less than 5% of the area of the map.

Is that the level with the working subway? I'm eager to play it.

I don't know if I like the sky or not, but that's a very original use of texture and palette!

[ck3D]

 Perro Seco, on 28 March 2020 - 10:21 AM, said:

Is that the level with the working subway? I'm eager to play it.

I don't know if I like the sky or not, but that's a very original use of texture and palette!

Yes, that's the one, although map 2 is bound to receive its own subway system too, eventually. Most city maps in the episode will most likely have their own (hopefully in different styles), because they will just need them essentially, so far both maps are too big to conveniently cross from end to end the standard pedestrian way, but I want the scale to enhance the gameplay and not get in its way so I'm articulating the layout around practical workarounds, different levels of interconnection etc. and subway systems are one of them. I basically aspire the experience to feel like the original Duke 3D times ten in terms of proportions (ideally, of course), all the while avoiding most user map design traps now that I can better identify them.

Also, so far both maps have great differences in terrain heights from section to section, building an underground network of subway stations kind of helps establish a literal common ground.

PS. I had never even seen that beta screenshot before but it's coincidentally cool that you like it, as map 1 just so happens to have very similar sceneries in parts, just pushed a bit further (but now, sharing more would fall into spoiler category).

[Maarten]

 ck3D, on 27 March 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

Maarten, again I'm really looking forward to that map, the style looks super interesting to me. I hope it's somehow possible to get inside that Duke Burger, first thing that came to mind - secrets in places that look impossible to enter like this are the best secrets!

Ha, you got me thinking here about the Duke Burger thing!
The map is mostly outside and I was already thinking about building more indoor locations so the city will feel more "alive". I have so many ideas that it won't even fit in this map haha. It's already laggy at some point (but it's probably also my crappy old laptop haha)


Btw I love that street pic of yours!
Your shots reminds me a bit of Merlijn`s recent work but somehow more original DN3D but still clearly your own touch Keep it up!!

[11bush]

A couple weapon animations that I have been working on.

[brullov]

I've made UAZ 452 "Bukhanka" today, spent around 2 hours. Very happy with the final result (no custom art, only vanilla Duke 3D).

[11bush]

 brullov, on 29 March 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

I've made UAZ 452 "Bukhanka" today, spent around 2 hours. Very happy with the final result (no custom art, only vanilla Duke 3D).

That looks awesome!

[ck3D]

 brullov, on 29 March 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

I've made UAZ 452 "Bukhanka" today, spent around 2 hours. Very happy with the final result (no custom art, only vanilla Duke 3D).

Always love your style!

[Sanek]

 ck3D, on 29 March 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

Always love your style!

99% sure it's not part of the actual map, he made it just to post a screenshot here; he's been doing it for years.

[oasiz]

And there is a problem with that?
I think this looks really cool

Very unconventional use of textures like that space wall on that building.

[DevoNukem]

 Perro Seco, on 28 March 2020 - 10:21 AM, said:

I like it! I guess it's based on this beta screenshot:
beta.jpg

Why yes, Yes it it is.

[Radar]

 oasiz, on 29 March 2020 - 01:57 PM, said:

And there is a problem with that?

I do hope he plans on releasing something playable eventually.

[brullov]

Thank you guys, I appreciate your kind words! From now I see that it takes a lot of time, so I guess I will work at least one year on this project to complete. I think I will post the next update when I hit a major milestone on the progress.

@Sanek, this is the same map I have posted earlier (inspired by Half Life universe), so that's was not done for only the screenshot. However, this is not the playable area. I would call it a skybox.

[ck3D]

 oasiz, on 29 March 2020 - 01:57 PM, said:

And there is a problem with that?
I think this looks really cool

Very unconventional use of textures like that space wall on that building.

My personal favorite bit is the building in the far background with the antenna and balconies.

[Mark]

Brullov, great minds think alike. I'm another guy that spends a lot of time making cool looking non-playable areas in my maps. It beats having just a blank wall or similar.

[Sanek]

John Romero once said that in order to save map's space, you must only make areas that you can visit. I'm not against kewl non-playable areas (new adg map was awesome!) but personally (my own maps i mean), I stopped paying much attention to non-playable areas ever since I "released" LORCH 3 back in 2013. I spend more time making backdrops than making actual gameplay areas and in retrospect, I think it wasn't worth it.

[Maarten]

Awesome shot, indeed!
I also agree about unreachable areas; they add a lot of real life atmosphere

Meanwhile, having lots of inspiration for my map.. going really steady

[brullov]

 Sanek, on 30 March 2020 - 02:55 AM, said:

John Romero once said that in order to save map's space, you must only make areas that you can visit. I'm not against kewl non-playable areas (new adg map was awesome!) but personally (my own maps i mean), I stopped paying much attention to non-playable areas ever since I "released" LORCH 3 back in 2013. I spend more time making backdrops than making actual gameplay areas and in retrospect, I think it wasn't worth it.

He is right, but only for the professional game development. In my case I am doing it for fun, so I can spend any amount of time, hehe. I also understand that any player will skip that area in a second, even though I spend a lot of time on it. But thats what makes the atmosphere of the map.

[oasiz]

I think unreachable areas are doable but they have to be part of design, different tones or darker and blocked off otherwise.
Personally I am a believer that in old retro games especially doors used to communicate that there is something behind.
Exploring levels in duke3d was extremely rewarding because of this, you saw a door and you KNEW that there was a way to get behind it, it was a hunt on how to get there.

Designing things "foreground" vs. "background" is very important.

[Perro Seco]

 brullov, on 30 March 2020 - 03:06 AM, said:

He is right, but only for the professional game development. In my case I am doing it for fun, so I can spend any amount of time, hehe. I also understand that any player will skip that area in a second, even though I spend a lot of time on it. But thats what makes the atmosphere of the map.

Why can't the player visit that cool place? It still has all those buildings to delimit the space. I think it could be very interesting to allow players visit all the corners of the map.

I've played other maps full of no reachable areas, but they end up being like a museum rather than a fun map to explore.

[Sanek]

 brullov, on 30 March 2020 - 03:06 AM, said:

I also understand that any player will skip that area in a second, even though I spend a lot of time on it. But thats what makes the atmosphere of the map.

The most important thing is to make sure your unreachable areas size don't overweight the gameplay areas.

[brullov]

 Perro Seco, on 30 March 2020 - 03:37 AM, said:

Why can't the player visit that cool place? It still has all those buildings to delimit the space. I think it could be very interesting to allow players visit all the corners of the map.

I've played other maps full of no reachable areas, but they end up being like a museum rather than a fun map to explore.

Cause it looks nice only from the right field of view.

 oasiz, on 30 March 2020 - 03:32 AM, said:

I think unreachable areas are doable but they have to be part of design, different tones or darker and blocked off otherwise.
Personally I am a believer that in old retro games especially doors used to communicate that there is something behind.
Exploring levels in duke3d was extremely rewarding because of this, you saw a door and you KNEW that there was a way to get behind it, it was a hunt on how to get there.

Designing things "foreground" vs. "background" is very important.

I am inspired by Half Life 2 level design here, where you can see a lot of detailed unreachable places.

[Mark]

My reason for detailed non-reachable areas at the edges of maps is because I like how it looks waaaayyyy better than just an outer wall perimeter or seeing the skybox all the way to the bottom. Especially in city style maps that I usually make. So if you let the player into the non-playable area, it defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. Its possible I put too much importance on looks and not enough on gameplay. I'll admit it. But I tend to make stuff that is not strictly a shooter type mod. Exploring is important so having the map detailed like that helps.