Duke4.net Forums: What are you working on for Duke right now? - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

  • 328 Pages +
  • « First
  • 304
  • 305
  • 306
  • 307
  • 308
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

What are you working on for Duke right now?  "Post about whatever Duke related stuff you're doing"

User is offline   ck3D 

#9151

View PostPerro Seco, on 28 March 2020 - 10:21 AM, said:

Is that the level with the working subway? I'm eager to play it. ;)

I don't know if I like the sky or not, but that's a very original use of texture and palette!


Yes, that's the one, although map 2 is bound to receive its own subway system too, eventually. Most city maps in the episode will most likely have their own (hopefully in different styles), because they will just need them essentially, so far both maps are too big to conveniently cross from end to end the standard pedestrian way, but I want the scale to enhance the gameplay and not get in its way so I'm articulating the layout around practical workarounds, different levels of interconnection etc. and subway systems are one of them. I basically aspire the experience to feel like the original Duke 3D times ten in terms of proportions (ideally, of course), all the while avoiding most user map design traps now that I can better identify them.

Also, so far both maps have great differences in terrain heights from section to section, building an underground network of subway stations kind of helps establish a literal common ground.

PS. I had never even seen that beta screenshot before but it's coincidentally cool that you like it, as map 1 just so happens to have very similar sceneries in parts, just pushed a bit further (but now, sharing more would fall into spoiler category).

This post has been edited by ck3D: 28 March 2020 - 02:12 PM

1

User is offline   Maarten 

#9152

View Postck3D, on 27 March 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

Maarten, again I'm really looking forward to that map, the style looks super interesting to me. I hope it's somehow possible to get inside that Duke Burger, first thing that came to mind - secrets in places that look impossible to enter like this are the best secrets!


Ha, you got me thinking here about the Duke Burger thing!
The map is mostly outside and I was already thinking about building more indoor locations so the city will feel more "alive". I have so many ideas that it won't even fit in this map haha. It's already laggy at some point (but it's probably also my crappy old laptop haha)


Btw I love that street pic of yours!
Your shots reminds me a bit of Merlijn`s recent work but somehow more original DN3D but still clearly your own touch ;) Keep it up!!
1

User is offline   11bush 

#9153

A couple weapon animations that I have been working on.


5

User is online   brullov 

  • BAZINGA!

#9154

I've made UAZ 452 "Bukhanka" today, spent around 2 hours. Very happy with the final result (no custom art, only vanilla Duke 3D).https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

https://i.imgur.com/MBvjAfB.png
16

User is offline   11bush 

#9155

View Postbrullov, on 29 March 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

I've made UAZ 452 "Bukhanka" today, spent around 2 hours. Very happy with the final result (no custom art, only vanilla Duke 3D).https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

https://i.imgur.com/MBvjAfB.png


That looks awesome!
0

User is offline   ck3D 

#9156

View Postbrullov, on 29 March 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

I've made UAZ 452 "Bukhanka" today, spent around 2 hours. Very happy with the final result (no custom art, only vanilla Duke 3D).https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

https://i.imgur.com/MBvjAfB.png


Always love your style!
0

User is offline   Sanek 

#9157

View Postck3D, on 29 March 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

Always love your style!


99% sure it's not part of the actual map, he made it just to post a screenshot here; he's been doing it for years.
0

User is online   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#9158

And there is a problem with that?
I think this looks really cool ;)

Very unconventional use of textures like that space wall on that building.
0

#9159

View PostPerro Seco, on 28 March 2020 - 10:21 AM, said:

I like it! I guess it's based on this beta screenshot:
Attachment beta.jpg

Why yes, Yes it it is.
0

User is online   brullov 

  • BAZINGA!

#9160

Thank you guys, I appreciate your kind words! From now I see that it takes a lot of time, so I guess I will work at least one year on this project to complete. I think I will post the next update when I hit a major milestone on the progress.

@Sanek, this is the same map I have posted earlier (inspired by Half Life universe), so that's was not done for only the screenshot. However, this is not the playable area. I would call it a skybox.
2

User is offline   ck3D 

#9161

View Postoasiz, on 29 March 2020 - 01:57 PM, said:

And there is a problem with that?
I think this looks really cool ;)

Very unconventional use of textures like that space wall on that building.


My personal favorite bit is the building in the far background with the antenna and balconies.
0

User is offline   Mark 

#9162

Brullov, great minds think alike. I'm another guy that spends a lot of time making cool looking non-playable areas in my maps. It beats having just a blank wall or similar.
0

User is offline   Sanek 

#9163

John Romero once said that in order to save map's space, you must only make areas that you can visit. I'm not against kewl non-playable areas (new adg map was awesome!) but personally (my own maps i mean), I stopped paying much attention to non-playable areas ever since I "released" LORCH 3 back in 2013. I spend more time making backdrops than making actual gameplay areas and in retrospect, I think it wasn't worth it.
1

User is offline   Maarten 

#9164

Awesome shot, indeed!
I also agree about unreachable areas; they add a lot of real life atmosphere ;)

Meanwhile, having lots of inspiration for my map.. going really steady :lol:
0

User is online   brullov 

  • BAZINGA!

#9165

View PostSanek, on 30 March 2020 - 02:55 AM, said:

John Romero once said that in order to save map's space, you must only make areas that you can visit. I'm not against kewl non-playable areas (new adg map was awesome!) but personally (my own maps i mean), I stopped paying much attention to non-playable areas ever since I "released" LORCH 3 back in 2013. I spend more time making backdrops than making actual gameplay areas and in retrospect, I think it wasn't worth it.


He is right, but only for the professional game development. In my case I am doing it for fun, so I can spend any amount of time, hehe. I also understand that any player will skip that area in a second, even though I spend a lot of time on it. But thats what makes the atmosphere of the map.
2

User is online   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#9166

I think unreachable areas are doable but they have to be part of design, different tones or darker and blocked off otherwise.
Personally I am a believer that in old retro games especially doors used to communicate that there is something behind.
Exploring levels in duke3d was extremely rewarding because of this, you saw a door and you KNEW that there was a way to get behind it, it was a hunt on how to get there.

Designing things "foreground" vs. "background" is very important.
4

User is offline   Perro Seco 

#9167

View Postbrullov, on 30 March 2020 - 03:06 AM, said:

He is right, but only for the professional game development. In my case I am doing it for fun, so I can spend any amount of time, hehe. I also understand that any player will skip that area in a second, even though I spend a lot of time on it. But thats what makes the atmosphere of the map.
Why can't the player visit that cool place? It still has all those buildings to delimit the space. I think it could be very interesting to allow players visit all the corners of the map.

I've played other maps full of no reachable areas, but they end up being like a museum rather than a fun map to explore.

This post has been edited by Perro Seco: 30 March 2020 - 03:39 AM

1

User is offline   Sanek 

#9168

View Postbrullov, on 30 March 2020 - 03:06 AM, said:

I also understand that any player will skip that area in a second, even though I spend a lot of time on it. But thats what makes the atmosphere of the map.


The most important thing is to make sure your unreachable areas size don't overweight the gameplay areas. ;)
0

User is online   brullov 

  • BAZINGA!

#9169

View PostPerro Seco, on 30 March 2020 - 03:37 AM, said:

Why can't the player visit that cool place? It still has all those buildings to delimit the space. I think it could be very interesting to allow players visit all the corners of the map.

I've played other maps full of no reachable areas, but they end up being like a museum rather than a fun map to explore.


Cause it looks nice only from the right field of view.

View Postoasiz, on 30 March 2020 - 03:32 AM, said:

I think unreachable areas are doable but they have to be part of design, different tones or darker and blocked off otherwise.
Personally I am a believer that in old retro games especially doors used to communicate that there is something behind.
Exploring levels in duke3d was extremely rewarding because of this, you saw a door and you KNEW that there was a way to get behind it, it was a hunt on how to get there.

Designing things "foreground" vs. "background" is very important.


I am inspired by Half Life 2 level design here, where you can see a lot of detailed unreachable places.
1

User is offline   Mark 

#9170

My reason for detailed non-reachable areas at the edges of maps is because I like how it looks waaaayyyy better than just an outer wall perimeter or seeing the skybox all the way to the bottom. Especially in city style maps that I usually make. So if you let the player into the non-playable area, it defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. Its possible I put too much importance on looks and not enough on gameplay. I'll admit it. But I tend to make stuff that is not strictly a shooter type mod. Exploring is important so having the map detailed like that helps.

This post has been edited by Mark: 30 March 2020 - 05:21 AM

0

User is offline   Perro Seco 

#9171

View PostMark, on 30 March 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

My reason for detailed non-reachable areas at the edges of maps is because I like how it looks waaaayyyy better than just an outer wall perimete
But you still have to use sometimes those "ugly walls" to enclose the no reachable areas, and even more uglier barriers to prevent players from... playing the map. ;)

View PostMark, on 30 March 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

Exploring is important so having the map detailed like that helps.
What's the point of exploring if most of the areas can't be accessed?

I mean, you don't need to follow any rules when creating your own maps, but using lots of no reachable areas to make a map look good makes me think of lack of ability to mix atmosphere with gameplay.
0

User is offline   Dukebot 

#9172

This days I've continued a project that was abandoned some years ago (2014).

Here is the original post.

The idea was to make a big SP/COOP map, really big, with a lot of open space and areas to explore.

Recently I've retomated the project and I plan to finish it as I already invested lots of hours on this map.

Some screenshots of the work in progress.

Any valuable feedback is wellcome.
4

#9173

On unreachable areas, sometimes you have to make the decision to either include such an area and make it inaccessible, or not include it at all. If it's'an interesting enough setpiece and there's at least some visual cue to show you can't go there it's generally fine.
1

User is online   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#9174

Just to add, in many cases you can make otherwise unreachable areas reachable through a challenging secret, I always loved that aspect in doom where you had a whole exterior that could just exist for visual reasons but there was some secret door that allowed entry to it.
Once you are in this "unreachable area", the bonus of finding a way in, even if it's a dead end, is always worth it. You won't miss if it leads to an abrupt "end of world" after that.

But yes, detailed "end of the world" bits are cool, as long as they're designed to be uninteresting at the same time (i.e. pile of rubble, huge fire, cracked ground, etc..)
Ideally any block in the world has to be explained through game play logic and should never have invisible walls.

There is also the tool of using skybox-like exterior that is almost like a second layer some distance away from the player.

For a designer, it might actually come as a surprise how little realism actually matters to the player ;)
Hotel hell probably the shittiest hotel on earth, having a bar and all for whopping two rooms. You didn't have a single decorative door even for a third room. But hey, it worked!


But yeah, ended up getting things off-topic here a bit.
6

User is offline   ck3D 

#9175

Unreachable area talk is funny because it's exactly the type of consideration I had in mind when I asked Maarten whether he meant his Duke Burger to be enterable or not. My current stance on them is that they can indeed add a lot to the atmosphere but only really shine where they serve some kind of purpose later in the map, e.g.. by revealing themselves to be secret places. I think as much space in a map should be enterable as possible, even if that means one has to connect the dots with SOS tricks and whatnot, it's not mandatory but it's good optimization and something I try to focus on my levels these days (resulting, again, in a lot of opportunities for secret places or just nooks and crannies/sniper spots etc.).

That's actually something that bothers me quite a bit in that seventh screenshot of mine I posted (the one of map 1), that cinema building on the left side is an unreachable area (I originally designed it to be a long-distance visual marker for an important section of the map, with the big neon sign) although it's a sniper spot for enemies and blocked with a combination of ledges and fences, I still feel like the player is going to try so hard to get in there (in the original Duke 3D, everyone would have), I'll probably spend a few extra sectors on connecting at least part of that zone with something accessible. I used to be mostly concerned with the look of my rooms in 3D mode in my formative years but now what especially draws me to mapping is really clearly 2D mode and manipulating/connecting those locations I design in (hopefully) smart ways I intend to be reminiscent of the original maps (even something as simple as the E1L1 arcade room wall always works, now imagine big cities mostly designed like that, the potential is enormous). So right now to me, that cinema is a good example of a mistake that could easily be avoided (and will probably be fixed eventually), and I guess it's especially more annoying when it's the only segment of the level that's just declared inaccessible by its author in a relatively questionable way.

View PostDukebot, on 30 March 2020 - 05:55 AM, said:

This days I've continued a project that was abandoned some years ago (2014).Here is the original post.The idea was to make a big SP/COOP map, really big, with a lot of open space and areas to explore.Recently I've retomated the project and I plan to finish it as I already invested lots of hours on this map. Some screenshots of the work in progress.Any valuable feedback is wellcome.


I think this looks really good. Clean design (maybe that castle could use more detailing but I guess it's W.I.P.) and huge open areas, reminds me of the fun of late 90's/early 00's user levels (think Warzone era etc.), just refined, bigger and I'm sure better. I hope you finish it!

edit - oasiz we posted at the same time but I generally very much agree with you. Decorative doors used to plague my own levels yet have become a huge pet peeve of mine now. Whenever I do feel the need to implement one for pseudo-realism (apartments one can only enter from the balcony only make that much logical sense, even in DN3D), I make sure it's either blastable from the other side later in the mapping process, working my layout around it, or mark them with an invisible switch that just plays some sort of clicking sound, 'rewarding' the player for trying to open it all the while communicating that it's effectively locked and most likely just an accessory.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 30 March 2020 - 06:49 AM

1

User is offline   Mark 

#9176

View PostHigh Treason, on 30 March 2020 - 05:56 AM, said:

On unreachable areas, sometimes you have to make the decision to either include such an area and make it inaccessible, or not include it at all. If it's'an interesting enough setpiece and there's at least some visual cue to show you can't go there it's generally fine.

I've used barriers like semi-truck blocking access, military made pile of sandbags, chain fencing, barbed wire fences, collapsed tunnel, construction blockades. Things that let you know you go no further.

I forgot who posted this. They are not "all over the map". Mostly along some map edges where it made sense to me.

This post has been edited by Mark: 30 March 2020 - 07:11 AM

0

#9177

@oasiz; Unfortunately this isn't always possible, specifically when entering the area would break something. Take the courtyard in Dimension Shift (this one), bad things can happen if the player goes in there, it does some rather nasty things to have that overhanging sloped roof (hint: no TROR and actually renders better in DOS than it does in EDuke in some cases) so the only alternative was to not have it at all, or else make it far more boring to look at. The player only needs to walk on that path in the middle, so that's all they can do.

In this case I feel it is completely justified in existing this way because, well, for one thing it looks cool. You see it several times (including a few clones); firstly it sets the scene, it guides the player to a basement entrance so that they get to observe a locked door that they would have no reason to see otherwise (it would be possible to do some teleport stuff to 'reach' the front doors of the house, but this wouldn't reveal the locked door downstairs), it allows the player to see events regarding progression through a window they might otherwise miss and has enemies appear in it late on.

For other unreachable areas less time and resources were spent, like a couple of rooms blocked by bookcases (crap fact: they did exist as full rooms once but had no reason to be there and walls were tight) and a balcony with nothing on it that exists solely to make the building's geometry 'make sense' (kinda ironic) between the first and second floor - it seemed noticeable to me that the room above was smaller. There's actually another, larger balcony with chairs on it on the opposite side of the building too that exists solely to not have another gray wall with doors on it, as well as a subtle clue that nobody probably noticed (personally still get distracted by a ghost on a viewscreen, I didn't do that).

This post has been edited by High Treason: 30 March 2020 - 07:15 AM

0

User is online   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#9178

View Postck3D, on 30 March 2020 - 06:35 AM, said:

edit - oasiz we posted at the same time but I generally very much agree with you. Decorative doors used to plague my own levels yet have become a huge pet peeve of mine now. Whenever I do feel the need to implement one for pseudo-realism (apartments one can only enter from the balcony only make that much logical sense, even in DN3D), I make sure it's either blastable from the other side later in the mapping process, working my layout around it, or mark them with an invisible switch that just plays some sort of clicking sound, 'rewarding' the player for trying to open it all the while communicating that it's effectively locked and most likely just an accessory.


One tool for clever blocking when you run out of ideas is to use overgrown alien walls that have infested the door area itself.
2

User is online   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#9179

View PostHigh Treason, on 30 March 2020 - 07:09 AM, said:

@oasiz; Unfortunately this isn't always possible, specifically when entering the area would break something. Take the courtyard in Dimension Shift (this one), bad things can happen if the player goes in there, it does some rather nasty things to have that overhanging sloped roof (hint: no TROR and actually renders better in DOS than it does in EDuke in some cases) so the only alternative was to not have it at all, or else make it far more boring to look at. The player only needs to walk on that path in the middle, so that's all they can do.

In this case I feel it is completely justified in existing this way because, well, for one thing it looks cool. You see it several times (including a few clones); firstly it sets the scene, it guides the player to a basement entrance so that they get to observe a locked door that they would have no reason to see otherwise (it would be possible to do some teleport stuff to 'reach' the front doors of the house, but this wouldn't reveal the locked door downstairs), it allows the player to see events regarding progression through a window they might otherwise miss and has enemies appear in it late on.

For other unreachable areas less time and resources were spent, like a couple of rooms blocked by bookcases (crap fact: they did exist as full rooms once but had no reason to be there and walls were tight) and a balcony with nothing on it that exists solely to make the building's geometry 'make sense' (kinda ironic) between the first and second floor - it seemed noticeable to me that the room above was smaller. There's actually another, larger balcony with chairs on it on the opposite side of the building too that exists solely to not have another gray wall with doors on it, as well as a subtle clue that nobody probably noticed (personally still get distracted by a ghost on a viewscreen, I didn't do that).


Unreachable areas can be fine if made uninteresting, by that I don't necessarily mean boring.
In your example screenshot I can see that you have low visibility and windows block it (when looking from inside). It essentailly becomes "background" in a sense that skybox does andn that's cool. Plus those fake ROR tricks can be nasty with visual and/or collision, it's justified.
If you had that area bright and pointing to other areas then it would be different.

As for the other shot, with game play I mean that you should at least add tall fences or something that justifies why player gets blocked.
Invisible walls can work if they exist to prevent corner cases (i.e. sprite climbling for an otherwise unnaturally tall sprite)

Anyway, it's always a bit case-by-case basis on these. General rule of thumb is to just think of the platformer style FG/BG where BG might never use certain shades of brightness, can look cool but clearly has that almost "matte painting" feeling compared to the rest.
2

User is offline   Mark 

#9180

Like in Decay, I had a perfect excuse/reason for my blockades separating the playable and non-playable areas. The military and police force are trying to contain the zombie invasion by blocking street intersections. It made sense and looked cool at the same time. Here are 4 of the couple dozen examples you'll find in my maps. Maybe not the best but they were the first ones I found in just the Decay project. For those few of you that played the mod, the first screen shot is where Duke makes a cameo appearance running down the street with zombies running after him. The third pic is looking back at the city you drove away from in the previous map. The last pic was just a bit of fun looking in a warehouse window.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: backround1.jpg
  • Attached Image: backround2.jpg
  • Attached Image: backround4.jpg
  • Attached Image: backround3.png


This post has been edited by Mark: 30 March 2020 - 08:41 AM

2

Share this topic:


  • 328 Pages +
  • « First
  • 304
  • 305
  • 306
  • 307
  • 308
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks not owned by Voidpoint, LLC are the sole property of their respective owners. Play Ion Fury! ;) © Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options