[Tea Monster]

gemeaux333, on 06 October 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

I was actually talking about those who made the DLC "in form".

Not profitable ? Didn't 2K made a massive profit back when it was released... and were bragging about it ?

https://www.gamesrad...-the-other-one/

From the article: "But this financial viability also means a big green light for more Duke Nukem projects."

[hismasterplan]

I suppose they'd publish Duke 5 themselves through Gearbox Publishing but I don't know if they have the resources.

[Tea Monster]

Someone has to want to make one first and I don't see that happening with either Randy or 2K.

Like this whole DNF beta fiasco. It hasn't been released yet, but I can see that it's going to be a fiasco. A bunch of old levels that any sane company would have just chucked out there with a disclaimer and called it a day. Oh no. This is 2K we are dealing with. They insisted that it be a commercial release. A commercial release for some old DNF levels dating back to the turn of the Century? Really?

Now Gearbox has to come up with a load of tripe, like a documentary, or repackaging all the old games YET AGAIN so that we can get these beta levels. You know that they will use the same care and diligence that they did when putting World Tour together. I can just see TerminX now receiving a letter from some drone at Gearbox who can't be bothered with any of this "Hey, TX, have you got any home movies of you playing Duke Nukem 3D?"

Can any of you, honestly see anybody who isn't a raving DN3D fan going into their local Game store (assuming they are still in business when this thing hits the streets) and pre-ordering anything to do with Duke Nukem 3D? I can't. It's going to be another tassle on the belt of the Curse of Duke.

[Sangman]

I have a faint hope that if games like Dusk, Ion Fury, Amid Evil and Aeon are succesful enough, somebody in charge might be more open to the idea of fixing up the supposedly "90% complete" 2001 build and releasing it. Shit I'd pay for it if they do it right.

[gemeaux333]

Wasn't the "90% complete" supposed to be a mistake that have been fixed and turned back to "9% complete" ?

[Noddy]

Quote

I have a faint hope that if games like Dusk, Ion Fury, Amid Evil and Aeon are succesful enough, somebody in charge might be more open to the idea of fixing up the supposedly "90% complete" 2001 build and releasing it. Shit I'd pay for it if they do it right.

I feel the same way, but I'm worried that Randy will ruin it somehow. If I remember during the podcast with the forum, Randy said he got offers from other third-party developers, that were interested in creating a new Duke game, whether a direct sequel or a spin-off. This could be good, but I think he rejected them, as he was worried that those devs, wouldn't do Duke justice. However, with all of the problems that Randy is involved right now, I don't think Gearbox could deliver a good Duke game, but I could be wrong. At least I hope so.

[Tea Monster]

By the time you've hired staff to fix everything, built all the new content you need, fixed all the old content that was just rednecked together for the demo video, paid 2K whatever extortionate amount they are going to ask for, you might as well make a new game.

[Altered Reality]

Noddy, on 08 October 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

However, with all of the problems that Randy is involved right now, I don't think Gearbox could deliver a good Duke game, but I could be wrong. At least I hope so.

What is Randy DOING anyway? Sitting on his lazy ass, counting money from the sales of Borderlands 3, being an SJW bitch on the Internet?

[MrFlibble]

At around 5:25 Civvie essentially says that SiN is a Duke Nukem game on the Quake II engine. Having not played SiN, I've heard/read similar comparisons before, how accurate is this assessment? I mean, how close is that game to being a spiritual sequel/successor to Duke3D?

[gemeaux333]

Sin is pretty much halfway between Quake 2 and Half-Life as I remember !

[Tekedon]

Well it is quite "dukish" with the interactivity and one-liners and macho guy attitude. So I can absolutely understand the comparison. I never could enjoy it fully back in the day when it was released though. it was so buggy and my PC was not powerful enough.

[gemeaux333]

SIN is free on steam if you buy the "SIN Episode" prior !

[MrFlibble]

I believe Levelord was on the Ritual team and did the levels? *looking up MobyGames* oh, and also Charlie Wiederhold and Tom Mustaine. Cool.

[Sledgehammer]

MrFlibble, on 12 October 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

looking up MobyGames

You didn't know about Charlie involvement? I assume you missed this thread?

[Tekedon]

MrFlibble, on 12 October 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

I believe Levelord was on the Ritual team and did the levels? *looking up MobyGames* oh, and also Charlie Wiederhold and Tom Mustaine. Cool.

Definatly a dukish game then

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm gonna have to get SiN then I guess...

[Kerr Avon]

To me, the only Duke Nukem game* other than DN3D that I'd call really good is Duke Nukem: Zero Hour, which was N64 only and didn't get much publicity. Not even many N64 fans seem to have played it, judging by what I read, which is a shame as it's great.



* I'm not including the first two, pre-DN3D, games that were 2D side-scrollers, as I've never played either of them.

[Kristian Joensen]

MusicallyInspired, on 13 October 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

I'm gonna have to get SiN then I guess...

You definitely should. It is a little gem of a game.

[gemeaux333]

No one have ever been thinking about making another Duke game like Manhattan Project ?

[Master O]

gemeaux333, on 16 October 2019 - 08:57 PM, said:

No one have ever been thinking about making another Duke game like Manhattan Project ?

How about Build Engine vs Capcom ... (joking)

[gemeaux333]

And seriously ?

[Kerr Avon]

In all honesty, did DNF make a profit? Even allowing for the desperate hope many of us held for the game before it came out, and even allowing for the far-too-few-blind-fanboys-who'd-have-bought-the-game-whatever-it-was-like, surely a game as badly reviewed as that, that was so roundly slagged off by the very people who most wanted it to be good, wouldn't have sold nearly enough to even begin to break even, let alone make a profit.

I'm a big fan of DN3D (I've bought it three times over the past 20+ years) but I never bought DNF when it came out, because of the reviews and much more because of what fellow DN fans were saying, as *everyone* slagged it off. I only remember one friend buying it, and when I went to his house I don't know how long I tried it for, before I lost interest. I did buy the game used, later, tried it a again, hated it and gave the game away. And then months back, following some discussion on the 'net (which might well have been on this forum, or maybe 3D Realms' forum) I bought it (used) with the intention of playing it through to the end, to see if it did get any better (it really really doesn't, even the end boss battle is utterly lacking in imagination as you'll know if you've played DNF to the end).

So is that article correct in saying that DNF actually made a profit? How? It's a game that no one liked, that seemingly almost no one bought, that almost no one ever talks about (and if they do, it's either about disappointment or bafflement that it could have been so bad), that must have cost a fortune to make given it's development time (though playing (ugh!) through the game you have to wonder where any of the development time went), that it seems pretty inevitable that it would have lost a lot of money, not made a profit.

[Jimmy]

I think Gearbox made a profit. Everyone else got caught holding a wet paper bag filled with diarrhea. You have to remember Gearbox invested basically nothing in it compared to others. Take2 probably didn't invest that much either in the long run. But rather it was George and Scott who ran 3DR into the ground dumping their own money into that game.

[Sledgehammer]

gemeaux333, on 16 October 2019 - 08:57 PM, said:

No one have ever been thinking about making another Duke game like Manhattan Project ?

Big budget companies don't touch platformers.

[Kristian Joensen]

Kerr Avon, on 19 October 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

In all honesty, did DNF make a profit? Even allowing for the desperate hope many of us held for the game before it came out, and even allowing for the far-too-few-blind-fanboys-who'd-have-bought-the-game-whatever-it-was-like, surely a game as badly reviewed as that, that was so roundly slagged off by the very people who most wanted it to be good, wouldn't have sold nearly enough to even begin to break even, let alone make a profit.

I'm a big fan of DN3D (I've bought it three times over the past 20+ years) but I never bought DNF when it came out, because of the reviews and much more because of what fellow DN fans were saying, as *everyone* slagged it off. I only remember one friend buying it, and when I went to his house I don't know how long I tried it for, before I lost interest. I did buy the game used, later, tried it a again, hated it and gave the game away. And then months back, following some discussion on the 'net (which might well have been on this forum, or maybe 3D Realms' forum) I bought it (used) with the intention of playing it through to the end, to see if it did get any better (it really really doesn't, even the end boss battle is utterly lacking in imagination as you'll know if you've played DNF to the end).

So is that article correct in saying that DNF actually made a profit? How? It's a game that no one liked, that seemingly almost no one bought, that almost no one ever talks about (and if they do, it's either about disappointment or bafflement that it could have been so bad), that must have cost a fortune to make given it's development time (though playing (ugh!) through the game you have to wonder where any of the development time went), that it seems pretty inevitable that it would have lost a lot of money, not made a profit.

I guess one relevant question is: Made a profit for whom?

3D Realms funded somewhere in the neighborhood of 95 - 99% of development upto Triptych taken over development duties. I believe Triptych received little to no funding prior to Gearbox taken over, and what little they did receive they received from 3D Realms. Then there is a matter of Gearbox's acquisition cost of the IP + the money they used to complete the game. The former is money for the acquisition of the entire IP and can not fairly be labeled as DNF development costs. We don't know how that deal was structured either, but I believe there was some indication of some of it being an advance against future royalties. On the other hand the money they used to complete the game definitely counts as DNF development costs. But there is a huge difference between funding the last year or two of development versus funding the whole thing. So it is quite conceivable that the game was profitable for Gearbox.

Then there is Take Two/2K. First I would say that their assesment, in principle, is less relevant since if GBX perceives it as profitable they can pursue a new Duke game through other avenues(like Gearbox Publishing or other publishing partners). But their situation is roughly this: They acquired the DNF publishing rights from Infogrames/Atari for $ 6 million upon signing + $ 6 million upon release of the game. Later they renegotiated the agreement. I think under the new agreement they had to pay $ 10 million in all. IIRC this agreement included some other publishing rights, including for a game based on the Duke movie that was supposed to be made and for an eventual Duke 5. But in 2007 3D Realms and Take Two entered into an agreement giving 3DR back the publishing rights to Duke 5 and the movie game in exchange for rights to publish the Duke Begins game that Gearbox was going to make. The deal also included a $2.5 million advance against royalties from both DNF and Duke Begins. That advance was to be paid back as a loan if DNF was not released by a certain date (IIRC December 31, 2012). It seems Gearbox might have paid them this advance back as part of the settlement that was entered into. I think some of Take Two's financials mention receiving a DNF related payment of $ 2.5 million.I don't think Take Two paid Gearbox any money for completing the game. So I guess for Take Two to make even on it DNF needed to earn them those $ 10 million or so they spent acquiring the publishing rights + whatever they spent on marketing back. That is not inconceivable.

Then there is Atari/Infogrames/GT Interactive. They paid 3D Realms a $ 400,000 signing bonus as an advanced against DNF royalties for getting the publishing rights. They later sold those publishing rights as I mentioned above. So I would think the whole thing was pretty profitable for them.

As far as 3D Realms goes, when they were sued by Take Two they put out a press release that they had spent $ 20 million+ of their own money on the game. So depending on the specifics of their deals with Gearbox and Take Two and just how well the sales went, it is indeed quite possible that the game was not profitable for them.

[PokeThePower]

Doom64hunter, on 02 October 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

Come to think of it, Duke acts weirdly sociopathic throughout the entire game. Why does putting a rat in the microwave give him ego?

I haven't logged in in quite a while due to being utterly swamped... and I was stoked to see Civvie followed through... but god damn this comment triggers the

Spoiler

out of me.

Ok now to catch up on the rest of the forum over the next couple days/weeks.

[Jimmy]

It just shows what I've been saying for years; extraneous "I can't believe you can actually do that" actions added into DNF over time just ended up being "features" in the final game. The DNF we were supposed to get was intended to be so interactive that you could do things no one would think you could do. The DNF we got had Randy and his BADASS sunglasses jump in your face yelling "YOU CAN PICK UP A TURD, THIS IS IN NO WAY IRONIC."

[Sledgehammer]

"So ironic and so badass! You actually can get an ego boost for this! HOW COOL BADASS IS THAT?"

[Altered Reality]

Jim Rockford, on 19 October 2019 - 10:26 PM, said:

It just shows what I've been saying for years; extraneous "I can't believe you can actually do that" actions added into DNF over time just ended up being "features" in the final game. The DNF we were supposed to get was intended to be so interactive that you could do things no one would think you could do. The DNF we got had Randy and his BADASS sunglasses jump in your face yelling "YOU CAN PICK UP A TURD, THIS IS IN NO WAY IRONIC."

That was because that pile of blubber-for-brains named George had decided to make them features when he restarted development one last time.

[Jimmy]

There's zero evidence of that.