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Should they keep the Austin Powers-style humor for the next Duke game?

User is offline   justLMAO 

  • -4

#1

About the tongue-in-cheek humor, like reading dirty magazines giving Duke an Ego boost and finding vibrators lying around, should they keep that for the next Duke game? Or should Duke be more "grown-up" and serious?

Personally I thought it was pretty neat, though some of the "humor" (looks like you're fucked) was way off the mark bordering on stupid
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User is online   Never Forgotten 

  • 243

#2

I think some of the stuff could stay, without coming off as juvenile, as long as it's dobe right. I like being able to pick up the magazines, it helps immersion, but it'd be imteresting to see them as collectibles similar to the mini Doomguys in Doom (2016), but I'm not sure about giving Duke a health/ego boost. Maybe give him some extra health that can still be taken away, like how Atomic Health in Duke 3D can give you more than 100% health.

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This post has been edited by Never Forgotten: 22 April 2019 - 10:46 AM

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User is offline   hismasterplan 

  • 102

#3

It should keep the tone of every game before DNF. Simple as that. As for humor, again, look to the older games.
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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

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#4

¿What game?
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User is offline   Marphy Black 

  • 969

#5

And more importantly, Austin Powers 1, 2, or 3?

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User is offline   necroslut 

  • 259

#6

I don't think its so much about what it contains, as about the overall tone and presentation (as well as the density or amount of that content).

View Posthismasterplan, on 22 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

It should keep the tone of every game before DNF. Simple as that. As for humor, again, look to the older games.

Those games didn't have a consistent tone. Duke 3D is significantly darker than Duke 1/II or Zero Hour/LotB etc...

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
1

User is offline   Noddy 

  • 15

#7

They should take the humor and jokes from Manhattan Project and Duke 3D. The jokes should not sound stupid, also he shouldn't reference memes or have stupid jokes like in that Bulletstorm DLC.
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User is offline   gemeaux333 

  • 14

#8

I liked the humor of Duke Nukem Forever, it gave Duke some personnality at least (not that hard when you think that, in DN3D, Duke is merely a voice and a sprite in a miror, assides from his interactions with the few humans you meet) !
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User is offline   hismasterplan 

  • 102

#9

View PostMike Norvak, on 22 April 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

¿What game?


More specifically, DN3D. Zero Hour was a bit lighter and I'd be fine if Duke 5 were modeled after that one.
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User is online   Borion 

  • 216

#10

I think at the time, DN3D humour was fitting it's aesthetic really well. It was referencing various pop-culture elements - like crappy VHS-era action movies - in an ironic & uncompromising way. Today many of those jokes would be considered as racist or misogynist, because things that they were referencing are not part of mainstream culture anymore. Like who watches movies with Steven Seagal these days, to get Dukes attitude? Or remember i.e. busty babes of original Bay Watch, to get certain vibe of 90s erotism? Only our generation(s). So I think now it would be hard to make something as fresh and funny as DN3D at the time of its release, without adjusting humour & references to present context. And fact that we are not 10-13 years old kids anymore :)

IMHO Duke Nukem Forever is perfect example what happens if you don't move forward. I felt whole writing & humour was just terrible. Like one massive projection of George Broussard primitive/immature sexuality & his inferiority complex. DNF is just collection of his fantasies about being muscular tall guy with big gun & dick that goes into every possible hole...
For me DNF is proof that Broussard never understood true reasons of DN3D phenomenon. For him it was just about strippers & dated Duke jokes, not about great level design, great gameplay & one in kind Build Engine look. I can't understand how some people still consider this guy as good game designer :rolleyes:

I hope I didn't hurt anyones feelings with those opinions (besides Broussard asshole), sorry if I did.


This post has been edited by Borion: 24 April 2019 - 08:16 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,390

#11

I think there's more evidence pointing to the fact that Gearbox didn't understand the Duke character and slapped together a bunch of set pieces initially with little meaning or purpose than anything else and had to jury rig some kind of linear pattern to it all. Gearbox created Douche Nukem. They got his character wrong. The writing especially Broussard had nothing to do with. All the lines were written and recorded after Gearbox got their hands on it.

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

  • 14

#12

Every single One-Liner is somewhat douchey, so Duke Nukem should make justice to them...

Randy Pitchford have shown so much endeavor in defending a game he barely was involved in...
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 817

#13

Gearbox are like that guy who read shitton of memes on the Internet and decided to use them in real life in pretty much any context and in big quantity.
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User is offline   Futuretime23 

  • 86

#14

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 24 April 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

I think there's more evidence pointing to the fact that Gearbox didn't understand the Duke character and slapped together a bunch of set pieces initially with little meaning or purpose than anything else and had to jury rig some kind of linear pattern to it all. Gearbox created Douche Nukem. They got his character wrong. The writing especially Broussard had nothing to do with. All the lines were written and recorded after Gearbox got their hands on it.

From the DNF dev timeline:
Entries[26].Date="August, 2009"
Entries[26].Info="Duke Nukem Forever's narrative script is written at Triptych and approved by 3D Realms. Triptych gets to surprise Jon St. John - the famous English language voice actor who originally played Duke Nukem - with a phone call: 'Hell has finally frozen over.'"

GBX didn't write the script, their earliest known involvement comes from this:
Entries[23].Date="June, 2009"
Entries[23].Info="Gearbox and 3D Realms begin negotiation of an asset purchase agreement for the Duke Nukem franchise and Duke Nukem Forever.  The business agreement is finalized and executed approximately six months later and ownership of the game and brand is transferred to Gearbox Software."
Basically, GBX didn't start getting more deeply involved in DNF until 2010, and from the same timeline doc, Nov. 2009 is when the campaign was completed and it was locked down on Jan. 2010. This is when Triptych begins negotiating with GBX.

That being said, a few alterations did happen when GBX came on board, but most seem to have been aesthetic and graphical changes.

Gearbox DID change at least 2 lines - the voiceclip for the pigs do fly line (albeit it's the same line, just dif performance) and I suspect Duke's original reaction to the twins dying (there's an unused line in the entire duke twins convo where Duke says "what a waste" with the twins death line naming not matching the rest of the convo. It should be noted Randy did state in the july 2017 stream the original convo was apparently worse. This might be what he meant by that)
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#15

What? So Triptych existed before 3DR closed down?

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User is offline   Zor 

  • 91

#16

http://www.escapistm...ithout-a-Script

Quote

David Riegel, a former developer at 3D Realms, and the president of its successor, Triptych Games, says that the games was around 80% finished in 2009, but it was a really uneven 80%. There were a lot of structures in place for the gameplay, and most of the weapons had been finished, but work on the game's story and characters had barely begun. "There was no narrative script; there was no dialogue; nothing written for any character ... NPC behavior didn't really exist, like no head tracking or eye tracking, no lip syncing, none of that. No music, no ending: there was a planned ending but it wasn't really there."

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#17

Thanks for posting these tweets. Despite them being nearly 2 years old, I don't think I've seen them before.

However it DOES confirm what I've been saying for years which people always want to argue about; George never would have shipped DNF in the state it was in.

Sure you can crack the easy joke "George never would have shipped DNF." And that would be fair. But that doesn't make my statement any less true.

George is integral to the franchise.

As for Triptych and 3DR, Triptych was basically a formation of team members who wanted to work on the game without being paid. When the money dried up for 3DR, they were still working and kept working even when 3DR closed their doors.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz

This post has been edited by Jimmy 100MPH: 25 April 2019 - 01:24 AM

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User is offline   Noddy 

  • 15

#18

In my opinion, whoever gets to develop a new Duke game, should at least play Duke 3D, or Zero Hour, Land of the Babes, Manhattan Project, or any other console title. The humor and jokes can take a bit of a backseat. I mean, if I remember correctly Duke Nukem was the first character in FPS that spoke. So the new game can have him say something funny or witty, relative to the situation after killing enemies or a boss. Also, he should keep some of the "offensive" jokes. God knows you cannot make a joke these days without someone being offended.

I always loved the jokes and references, but after completing it several times, I really came to appreciate the level design and the huge amount of things that you can interact with.
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User is offline   gemeaux333 

  • 14

#19

When it comes to this shipping story, its like this Twilight line : "Better an unperfect love than an impossible love"
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User is offline   Altered Reality 

  • 209

#20

The Duke formula has been "kind of bland guy occupying an Austin Powers world" at least since Duke Nukem: Zero Hour (just look at the store signs in the first levels - EDIT: actually since Duke Nukem: Time To Kill, which features a "Gatorbate tanning lotion" sign in level 1), and I wouldn't be surprised if George was behind all this, with ideas he had for DNF creeping into other games, like the golden pistol and the ego-based health. Instead, what I want to see is a Duke game where the world around Duke is completely serious, while Duke himself can talk trash to the enemies he kills, as well as stray away from the fight and focus on environmental interactivity, any time he wants, with the explicit motivation that he can afford to do that because he is superior to his enemies as well as other heroes.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 25 April 2019 - 01:09 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#21

^ I'm ok with this.

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User is offline   The Battlelord 

  • 33

#22

"The majority seeem to think the Duke franchise is drifting from 80's action hero inspired tongue in cheek to straight up comedy and parody."
Best short and focused words in a phrase ever to describe what is going on.

View PostBorion, on 24 April 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

Only our generation(s). So I think now it would be hard to make something as fresh and funny as DN3D at the time of its release, without adjusting humour & references to present context. And fact that we are not 10-13 years old kids anymore :)


I'm not sure that is a matter of age or generation(s), if a game is nice i think that does not matter how old we are, DooM is in the heart of old-school players, but many of them can easly say that even Doom (2016) is a nice game (maybe lack of the same atmosphere, but is a good compromise, [Exception for the Multiplayer] expecially compared to many other rebooted games that are a failure) and it is appreciated by kids aswell.
Then, what is the formula? Imo don't fix it if it's not broken, Improve it yes, but without changing its Nature, Its Soul.
Look at Brutal Doom, it is a mod with the same graphics of the old Doom, for some reason even kids like to play it.
Look at Street Fighter games now, i've tried them, am not even able as i was to do a simple shoryuken, why? Because they made the game with an input lag, similar things for Smash Bros games (after Melee), so damn slow, why have to be like that? I can move myself faster and accurated in the real life and/or without running out of "stamina" right after just 10 stupid seconds... Where is the crying emoticon? I will put 3 of them right here :P

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This post has been edited by The Battlelord: 25 April 2019 - 09:10 PM

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User is online   Borion 

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#23

View PostThe Battlelord, on 25 April 2019 - 08:58 PM, said:

I'm not sure that is a matter of age or generation(s), if a game is nice i think that does not matter how old we are, DooM is in the heart of old-school players, but many of them can easly say that even Doom (2016) is a nice game (maybe lack of the same atmosphere, but is a good compromise, [Exception for the Multiplayer] expecially compared to many other rebooted games that are a failure) and it is appreciated by kids aswell.
Then, what is the formula? Imo don't fix it if it's not broken, Improve it yes, but without changing its Nature, Its Soul.
Look at Brutal Doom, it is a mod with the same graphics of the old Doom, for some reason even kids like to play it.
Look at Street Fighter games now, i've tried them, am not even able as i was to do a simple shoryuken, why? Because they made the game with an input lag, similar things for Smash Bros games (after Melee), so damn slow, why have to be like that? I can move myself faster and accurated in the real life and/or without running out of "stamina" right after just 10 stupid seconds... Where is the crying emoticon? I will put 3 of them right here :P


I'm not suggesting that Duke soul should be ripped out, I'm all for keeping it's art-style & core gameplay mechanics.
I'm talking about adjusting cultural references to be more grounded on modern content & topics, while keeping Dukes attitude similar to one from DN3D. I don't mean by that censorship or making it politically correct, just let professional good writer take care of writing & humour - not leave it to some sexualy frustrated manboy! ;) That all I was trying to say.
Obviously, I'm not native english speaker & sometimes its probably hard to get my message - my fault!

In regard to Brutal Doom, I completely agree. IMHO fact that many kids play it - and seem to love it! - means that there is still BIG potential in core concepts of some of old titles. Of course Brutal Doom is heavily enhanced experience, but it's core mechanics are still same as in original Doom. You need keep on "dancing with death". You stay in one place, you die. It is not one of those games with health regeneration, forced slow pace (examples that you provided are very good) or other elements that seem to be unavoidable in most games of modern age. IMHO there is good reason for rising popularity of retro-gaming in recent years. IMHO It is not as much about nostalgia, as it is about people growing tired of games with stupid mechanics that you mentioned.
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User is offline   The Battlelord 

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#24

View PostBorion, on 26 April 2019 - 12:34 AM, said:

Obviously, I'm not native english speaker & sometimes its probably hard to get my message - my fault!

Same here bro, and you have really nothing to apologize! :D

View PostBorion, on 26 April 2019 - 12:34 AM, said:

I'm not suggesting that Duke soul should be ripped out.

Indeed you didn't, i agree on everything you said, i've started my reply aiming to a possible "age/generation barrier", which is not really there if we won't see it.I mean that, if people are open minded, there are no restrictions, games can be modified/improved in the right ways, Alien Armageddon mod is another nice example, if done well there are no barriers, age does not matter and most people will like the game, why the same thing is not happening on most of the new games anymore? This is my true question and, if i have to reply myself the word is marketing but, at the same time is stupid because they can get more success and then money (money is probably the worst problem, no so much passion involved) if more generations are satisfied of a product.



Who the hell are you!?
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Topic Killer: Wherever i chat, people stop commenting for some reason O_o
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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 95

#25

I think they should "go back to basics" whoever it is that will be working on this next. Aka analyze Duke3D and see that for the most part it was serious and didn't really screw around on the scale that DNF does. Yeah it had stuff like Duke Burger, XXX Stacy and whatever but mainly the game was in appartment buildings that had mold on them, worn out streets and so. Space stations that had dead astronauts etc.

Duke3D didn't have Duke's TittyCitties with poopthrowing ranges and gloryhole cabinets. Closest thing to latter in D3D prolly the second level jackoff cabinets which for the time was fine, since it had been never yet done in a videogame.

Those tweets are a good sum up that Duke wasn't a parody but a tribute. And that really shows it doesnt it. One being Full on honoring of something while other purely just making fun of something, aka polar opposite.
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