[Steve 64]

I would love to see Gearbox try to make Duke Great Again.

[Jimmy]

They are incapable.

[DisgustedGrunt]

Duke Legacy, on 06 May 2019 - 08:11 AM, said:

I would love to see Gearbox try to make Duke Great Again.

Jimmy 100MPH, on 06 May 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

They are incapable.

i don't think they ever understood what made it great in the first place.

[Jimmy]

I'm not convinced that they ever even believed it was great.

[DisgustedGrunt]

Jimmy 100MPH, on 06 May 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

I'm not convinced that they ever even believed it was great.

Then why "waste" money on it?, they though they could do it better?.

[Steve 64]

It not really Gearbox that the problem it the guy on top.

[Ninety-Six]

Jimmy 100MPH, on 06 May 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

I'm not convinced that they ever even believed it was great.

I think it's the exact opposite problem. They think it's so great that the name alone would be successful, without them needing to put in any effort besides the bare minimum.

[Altered Reality]

Ninety-Six, on 06 May 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

I think it's the exact opposite problem. They think it's so great that the name alone would be successful, without them needing to put in any effort besides the bare minimum.

Exactly. For the same reason they later thought: "Oh, what fans really want is the same thing over and over again! Let's give them World Tour!"

[johnnythewolf]

I am not so sure they thought that so much as they just wanted to make money off a re-release of Duke Nukem 3D, which they previously could not because of the Atomic and Megaton Editions.

But credit where credit is due, they did take the time to produce a brand-new extra episode for it, bringing back some of the original crew for the occasion. That is already something, I guess...

[Jimmy]

Altered Reality, on 07 May 2019 - 04:48 AM, said:

Exactly. For the same reason they later thought: "Oh, what fans really want is the same thing over and over again! Let's give them World Tour!"

If by "same thing" you mean "DNF tier shit", then yeah. The problem with World Tour was that it was rushed dogshit, too cheaply made for its own good.

[Altered Reality]

Jimmy 100MPH, on 07 May 2019 - 10:15 AM, said:

If by "same thing" you mean "DNF tier shit", then yeah. The problem with World Tour was that it was rushed dogshit, too cheaply made for its own good.

I mean Duke Nukem 3D levels that are expected to sell merely because they are Duke Nukem 3D levels where you can run and shoot, disregerding any other aspect. Which is not at all what the original Duke3D levels were, but the literal interpretation of what too many people here have said.

[gemeaux333]

Fanboys just don't know what they want, and its not limited to Duke Nukem...

[Danukem]

gemeaux333, on 08 May 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

Fanboys just don't know what they want, and its not limited to Duke Nukem...

Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

[MusicallyInspired]

There's a good way/time and a bad way/time to not listen to fans. There's one way and then there's the Disney/LucasFilm Star Wars way.

[johnnythewolf]

Trooper Dan, on 08 May 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

What a horribly condescending thing to say. I heard Henry Ford was an union-busting scumbag and a proto-Nazi, but I did not know he looked down on his consumer base like that.

I get it: some consumers can be dickish and have unreasonable demands, but still, you would think he would have been more understanding...

[Danukem]

I think his point was that improvement requires innovation, not just taking a poll of what people think they want. We should be able to appreciate the truth in that, regardless of how we feel about capitalists.

[Aristotle Gumball]

johnnythewolf, on 08 May 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

What a horribly condescending thing to say. I heard Henry Ford was an union-busting scumbag and a proto-Nazi, but I did not know he looked down on his consumer base like that.

I get it: some consumers can be dickish and have unreasonable demands, but still, you would think he would have been more understanding...

Reading your comments is the equivalent of the nerd with no social skills that suddenly pipes up in a conversation that doesn't involve him to interject some useless factoid that bears no relevance to anything and is acknowledged with a 2 second moment of silence, after which everyone promptly resumes their discussion.



IMO if design by committee doesn't work, then design by mob rule definitely won't work either. I'd rather no one listened to the fans than to get some half hearted "basic version" of the thing I love. DNF at least was honest, in a way.

[DisgustedGrunt]

johnnythewolf, on 08 May 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

What a horribly condescending thing to say. I heard Henry Ford was an union-busting scumbag and a proto-Nazi, but I did not know he looked down on his consumer base like that.

I get it: some consumers can be dickish and have unreasonable demands, but still, you would think he would have been more understanding...

[johnnythewolf]

Trooper Dan, on 08 May 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

I think his point was that improvement requires innovation, not just taking a poll of what people think they want. We should be able to appreciate the truth in that, regardless of how we feel about capitalists.

In this case, I do not take offense at capitalism specifically so much as Henry Ford's attitude towards consumers in that quote. If people told me they just wanted "faster horses", I would interpret it as them being generally satisfied with what horses have to offer and would try to come up with new ways to fill that need; of course, it is not possible to make horses go faster (at least, not without engaging in cruel and unethical experimentations), but there are things about a horse that still up to this day a car just cannot replace, e.g. in terms of mobility and also in terms of emotional attachment.

Imagine if a game developer were to laugh at gamers who, say, are satisfied with the type of consoles/computers they have but wish games could run better and faster on them; he would come across as a massive douche and also incredibly out of touch. A more sensible approach to that situation would be to come up with better ways to optimise games made for those platforms, which is what the modding and emulation communities have been doing for ages already; there is a reason why commercial re-releases of old games tend to be lacking compared to open source ports, for example.

[DisgustedGrunt]

huh, aparently there's no proof that Henry Ford said that

[Hank]

Lazy Dog, on 08 May 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

huh, aparently there's no proof that Henry Ford said that

Who knows. H. Ford was the first to offer better salaries, and a 5-Day work week. I doubt he would make potentially insulting statements like that. One does not belittle potential customers. One needs them to make a profit.

Back to the topic – peeps like Randy P. should stay away from Digital Social Media! Ford is dead for almost one hundred years (72 to be exact). Can you imagine the Field-Days Social Justice Warriors will have with Pitchford in a hundred years from now, let alone even now?

Freedom of Speech? Yes! Shut the fuck up if you're on top, or want to stay there. wiki (big brother) is watching!

[PokeThePower]

Whether it's a real quote or not isn't important, the sentiment is not only spot on it's not condescending or insulting and the john boy who cried wolf caused one of my house plants to spontaneously erupt with cancer when it noticed me reading another one of their posts.

You listen to what your (potential) customer is describing their experience or friction point is (speed, reliable, not enough pig tibby ditches) and use that to hone in on solutions beyond what the vast majority will say if you also ask them what solution they want. Even better beyond what your competitors who are also trying to solve the problem are thinking of. It's built in that most people don't know the right answer if there is a new one, otherwise it would already be the answer.

When doing playtest feedback it's best practice to have someone good at a poker face while the player gives feedback and guide the player away from explaining solutions and instead describe what it was they were trying to accomplish/experience/etc.

Sometimes the right answer is an old answer that has become superior again in a new context. Sometimes the right answer is to stick with the current dominant answer. But your customers as a group are not the correct source for the answer... only the data used to guide the decision. Their attempts to describe an answer are the least useful. Their attempts to describe their goals are the most useful.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes, but he offended them. That makes everything else moot. It doesn't matter if they understand the context or not. Feelings don't care about your facts.

[Tea Monster]

I think he illustrated the point quite nicely.

[Aristotle Gumball]

JaccuseJuneJaccuse, on 08 May 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

Their attempts to describe an answer are the least useful. Their attempts to describe their goals are the most useful.

So in the case of Ford, he might hear: "I'd like to get to my job faster", and you know of a way to do that that doesn't include a horse. Goals vs what people say they want.

Incidentally, in regular conversation, it can often be useful to ponder what somebody's goals are (whether conscious or subconscious) when they say something, rather than acting like the person is a rational agent arriving at conclusions through logic. I.e. a lot of people are trying to fill a void in their lives, so they adopt certain ideologies that almost seem to speak on their behalf, while the actual person devolves into something like a vestigial organ, no longer in the driver seat. Just an FYI.

[johnnythewolf]

Hank, on 08 May 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

Back to the topic – peeps like Randy P. should stay away from Digital Social Media! Ford is dead for almost one hundred years (72 to be exact). Can you imagine the Field-Days Social Justice Warriors will have with Pitchford in a hundred years from now, let alone even now?

Freedom of Speech? Yes! Shut the fuck up if you're on top, or want to stay there. wiki (big brother) is watching!

... Are you insinuating that the people (correctly) calling out Randy Pitchford on his douchiness are faking it?

Also, criticising what someone has said is not anti-free speech; it is free speech!

[Hank]

johnnythewolf, on 09 May 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

... Are you insinuating that the people (correctly) calling out Randy Pitchford on his douchiness are faking it?

Also, criticising what someone has said is not anti-free speech; it is free speech!

Yep, my English sucks! Not even close to the point I tried to make.

If a quote from Henry Ford can be wildly interpreted, peeps in the public eye should learn from this and be careful on Twitter/Facebook, or simply stay away.

[MusicallyInspired]

Finally some attention!

[johnnythewolf]

Hank, on 09 May 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

Yep, my English sucks! Not even close to the point I tried to make.

If a quote from Henry Ford can be wildly interpreted, peeps in the public eye should learn from this and be careful on Twitter/Facebook, or simply stay away.

Ah, fair enough. However, let us not forget that apocryphal/misattributed quotes were a thing looong before social media were invented.

[Dacoolguy]

Altered Reality, on 02 April 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

"No. Nostalgia is a ball and chain" "I want a Duke game that makes me forget about Duke3D! I want to be able to say "Who needs Duke Nukem 3D anymore, when I've got this!"

And when exactly was the last time you could say that about any game out there?
Are you talking remakes here too? Very few remakes can make their oldschool fans claim they don't need to check the original anymore.
As for sequels to old classic games, what is the last triple A sequel to a triple A oldschool game that made you say, "Who needs x game anymore, when I've got this sequel!"
Also, you might be dreaming if you think that an IP like Duke Nukem that has been destroyed by multiple failures and by the passing of so much time with no sequels to it's name, will suddenly find a team that is both rich enough and crazy enough to invest huge amounts of cash in a sequel.
A new high budget game with Duke Nukem is almost guaranteed to fail financially.
There is lots of bad energy surrounding Duke's name after so many people waited nearly 2 decades for a major flop. How do you come back from that?
Except a few of us hardcore fans, nobody really even cares about Duke Nukem and it is especially hard to make a relevant game with him as the main character, in today's world where the feminist movement has exploded to the point where Hollywood can't even cast white males without female partners that overpower them in every sequence.
You either have a woman lead or you have a male lead that is portrayed as a dumbass that gets schooled by all the women around him.
It would have been hard to bring Duke Nukem back now even without a feminist crazy movement taking place. With the current medium, it's damn near impossible to even consider it.

So let me recap it for you.
There will not be a new fps game with Duke Nukem because.

1.The IP is not safe to guarantee profit so Gearbox has shelved it and it will remain shelved forever or until they sell it to some desperate bunch of devs that hope they can break the impossible trend and make a sequel with a low budget and then get rich with it.
2.There are no more fans for the IP due to it's old age and it's very old fans
3.There is a lot of bad press surrounding the IP due to the last installment in the series.
4.The feminist movement would burn any reviewer or any review site that dares to give it a high score when the main character is Duke Nukem which represents everything that feminists despise.