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Duke Being Put To Pasture?

User is offline   fuegerstef 

#361

View Postthricecursed, on 06 April 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:



That's of course not Duke but the modern and politically correct depiction of a slimed and captured babe in 2019.

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 06 April 2019 - 11:26 AM

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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#362

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 06 April 2019 - 10:33 AM, said:

Dictionaries only provide heavily-condensed definitions of the words they describe. You cannot expect to get a comprehensive understanding of a reality with only that. If you are going to seriously argue with me about the misogynistic nature of Duke Nukem as a character, then the least you can do is to learn more about the subject.


I need to learn more about the subject? So now you are going to insult me by assuming that my position is based on ignorance.

I think your understanding of how language works is very flawed, by the way, but I won't even go there, because it would be a waste of my time.

You are not an expert on the meaning of "misogyny" any more than I am. You are an expert at being condescending and lecturing people without providing cogent arguments for anything.
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#363

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 April 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

I need to learn more about the subject? So now you are going to insult me by assuming that my position is based on ignorance.


What? You are the one who literally told me you took your understanding from dictionaries and googling the word! :unsure:

All I am saying is that misogyny is a far more complex issue that cannot be summed up in a matter of a couple succinct sentences.

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 April 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

I think your understanding of how language works is very flawed, by the way


To be fair, English is not even my first language, so that might not be entirely inaccurate.

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 April 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

You are not an expert on the meaning of "misogyny" any more than I am.


I am no expert nor have I ever claimed as much. I just believe I know more about the subject than you do, much like you clearly understand far more about Build Engine modding than I ever will.

Is that really this offensive of a thing to say? :unsure:

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 April 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

You are an expert at being a condescending SJW who likes to lecture people without providing cogent arguments for anything.


There we go, the meaningless "SJW" epithet. I honestly expected you to be above this sort of crap. <_<

All I am doing is defending my position from people like you who are trying to convince me that it is incorrect. If you no longer enjoy this exchange, then say so; do not just get angry at me.

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 06 April 2019 - 12:30 PM

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User is offline   fuegerstef 

#364

Johnny, we already learned that you have a very simple look at things and that your cognitive and adaptive abilities to see and recognize nuances aren't fully developed, you can stop now.

Especially as you are even seven years late to the party. The whole thing had been done and discussed to death and back (twice) the first years after DNF's release.

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 06 April 2019 - 12:26 PM

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#365

Dan, I totally get why you entertained him for as long as you did. I realize now that this wasn't the case of somebody being baited into an argument. I just lack the patience after interacting with these kinds of people for years (used to be a left wing activist many years ago, lol) and I get sort of paranoid that their behavior will start to infect otherwise neutral or apolitical spaces. I've seen it happen to other forums, as well in my former social circle. It's like a cancer, this type of black and white thinking. Best thing is to simply ignore, not censor or ban, but let them perform their monologues and look like the crazy person, until they tire and move on. Or until they give you a reason to kick them out.
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User is offline   necroslut 

#366

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 06 April 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

MachineGames' Wolfenstein games have not done that, so there is no reason to think that a Duke Nukem game done in a similar fashion would.

Not what I was saying. Again, you prove you just don't get it. I'm done with this one.

Quote

Not really. A game like Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold had friendly NPCs that you could talk to and even Duke Nukem 64 gave you the ability to teleport captives to safety.
[...]
No. NPCs in Duke Nukem 3D add nothing to the gameplay; in fact, outside of the alien captives in clearly infested areas, they look rather out of place; Los Angeles has been taken over by invaders from out of place, yet you have sex workers just standing there, mindlessly dancing or waiting to be hit on by Duke Nukem. The game would have been just fine without them.

Not at a Duke 3D level of detail, no. And while I sort of like Duke 64's handling of the captive women, it opens up questions like "If Duke has some kind of personal teleporter, why doesn't he use that offensively?". Also, Duke 64's change means the women are essentially collectibles – I'd imagine you could see a problem with that.

And, no, they don't add anything to the gameplay, but they do add to the tone and ambiance. A tone that is somewhat unpleasant and that you obviously don't care much for, – it was predictable that it would upset some – but that still doesn't make it misogynist.

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If you disagree and do not want to be convinced, then fine. Stop arguing with me about the topic at hand.

Obviously I disagree, but it's not about not "wanting to be convinced"; it's about you not saying anything convincing. I've heard it all said better and in more depth, and it wasn't convincing then either.

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They are, unless you can come up with a different one - which in order to do so would require you to make a defense for GTA and Rockstar. ;)

Eh, no. You do need to provide more than that. Your assumptions won't do for anyone but you.

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Yes, using words to describe things is ridiculous. :rolleyes:

It is when they lose all meaning in the process.

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I never said it was propaganda nor a guidebook. However, something done in "poor taste" knowingly is still poor taste and again there is nothing parodic about erotic dancers, sex workers and alien captives; they are not subverting expectations, they are not making a comment on anything, they are just... there.

That's your take, one obviously not shared by everyone in here and that you provide no real arguments for. And, yes, deliberate poor taste is different from "just" poor taste; it's like the difference between a racist joke and a joke about racism in the form of a racist joke. Though I imagine you don't consider that a valid difference either...

This post has been edited by necroslut: 06 April 2019 - 03:11 PM

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • Buy Mage's Initiation!

#367

Just ask him why he's here, call him something innocent and innocuous, and he'll ignore you too.

I'd just like to repeat for the record that I've treated him cordially everywhere I've spoken with him and calling him "contrarian" was innocent and innocuous. Certainly a lot tamer than what others were calling him. And in return I got called a "disingenuous dickhead" and he proceeded to ignore me, refer to me as a gatekeeper, and throw unprovoked passive aggressive potshots at me every chance he got.

I'm still willing to forgive and forget, though. After all, we barely know eachother. However, I'm still not totally convinced he's not a complete troll account made by someone else here already. The things he's saying are too ridiculous to believe he's actually honest. But if he is, and I'll say it for a third time, you can be whatever kind of fan you want to be. Means little to me.

EDIT: Oh yeah, "Schrödinger's Douchebag" was another one.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 06 April 2019 - 05:16 PM

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#368

Quote

There we go, the meaningless "SJW" epithet. I honestly expected you to be above this sort of crap. <_<

All I am doing is defending my position from people like you who are trying to convince me that it is incorrect. If you no longer enjoy this exchange, then say so; do not just get angry at me.


johnnythewolf, you're using the wrong tactics. The more you confront them and imitate their tactics, the more they're going to downvote you, dismiss you, and insult you. Look, I get it. I don't agree with everything you say, but I get it. I just don't want to see you suffer a breakdown because of this discussion board. I do think they've gone overboard in downvoting you, but confronting them aggressively isn't worth it. You're just going to get badly hurt in the process.

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You are not an expert on the meaning of "misogyny" any more than I am. You are an expert at being a condescending SJW who likes to lecture people without providing cogent arguments for anything.


Trooper Dan, he's not an SJW. He's acting like a Duke4.net member. The more you rile him up, the more he's going to get confrontational. I know, because that's how I've seen other members I've debated with have acted. Some of the other members here who've debated him haven't been very respectful or calm, either. I'm only saying this because, even though I disagree with you, I think you're a reasonable and approachable moderator. From personal experience as a moderator, don't you think that discussions where members don't follow the rules have gotten unnecessarily out of hand?

Some of the rules which I think apply include:

"Respect other members"
"Do not troll--do not post inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages."
"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, hateful, harassing, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any applicable laws."

Unfortunately, I've seen quite a few members who have abused these rules. I'm not saying this to be confrontational and critical. I'm saying this because I think Duke4.net's forums is in dire need of standards. The moderators need to bring order to the discussions, whether it's to moderate the users you disagree with, or the users you agree with.

[Additional Quote after Editing:]

Quote

To Johnny's credit, he is taking on a large number of people in a right-leaning forum. It's not easy to keep your composure when you are getting bashed and insulted by nearly everyone around you. I've been there myself, and it's not fun (irrespective of whether you are in the right, the wrong, or somewhere in between). I will also say that I have occasionally seen some some repulsive statements of a right-wing persuasion on this forum that are far more offensive and indefensible than anything I have read from Johnny.


I was right about you, Trooper Dan. You are a reasonable guy.

Quote

I just lack the patience after interacting with these kinds of people for years (used to be a left wing activist many years ago, lol) and I get sort of paranoid that their behavior will start to infect otherwise neutral or apolitical spaces. I've seen it happen to other forums, as well in my former social circle. It's like a cancer, this type of black and white thinking. Best thing is to simply ignore, not censor or ban, but let them perform their monologues and look like the crazy person, until they tire and move on. Or until they give you a reason to kick them out.


I'm leftwing, and I'm not like that. I often try to be reasonable and calm, even if it doesn't always help me in a discussion. I'm a fan of Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior, Blood, and all the classic Apogee, 3D Realms, id Software, and Raven Software games. I also like a lot of entertainment that would be considered politically incorrect. At the same time, I'm not a supporter of the anti-SJW movement. I think it's a waste of energy, and just hurts everybody involved. The problem is not with being left or right. The problem is being reactionary and confrontational. The more reactionary and confrontational somebody is, the more arguments escalate. Aren't you guys tired of these kinds of arguments? No one feels better afterwards. No one gets to understand each other. It just leads to unresolved resentment and anger. It's like playing a usermap where enemies constantly respawn, and there are few health and ammo pickups to help you survive.

Again. I'm not saying this to be confrontational or to be a jerk. I just don't want to see Duke4.net become a place where only aggressive users tear each other apart when there's no need.

This post has been edited by Flying Techbot: 06 April 2019 - 03:35 PM

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#369

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 April 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

I would put it a little differently -- the cancer is spewing ideology in the place of thinking. Just about everyone does this to some extent, and I don't think that Johnny is one of the worst offenders.


I don't think so either, but I also haven't been around long enough to notice any indefensible statements of a right wing persuasion. Still getting a feel for this place. I do notice an opposition to left-wing-agenda-pushing, but I wouldn't necessarily equate that with being right leaning.

Someone I know worked on this article: https://journals.sag...r9hXR7V6-5ah5PI

"We argue that psychological distress stimulates adopting an extreme ideological outlook; extreme ideologies are characterized by a relatively simplistic, black-and-white perception of the social world; because of such mental simplicity, political extremists are overconfident in their judgments; and political extremists are less tolerant of different groups and opinions than political moderates. In closing, we discuss how these psychological features of political extremists increase the likelihood of conflict among groups in society."

I've also seen studies that show how political extremists possess low verbal intelligence, so it might actually be impossible to get anywhere with them.

I get having empathy for people, no matter how crazy they may seem, but at some point you gotta start drawing lines. Plenty of reasonable people out there, no need to engage with the few crazies... from any side of the spectrum.

This post has been edited by thricecursed: 06 April 2019 - 03:33 PM

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#370

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

Not at a Duke 3D level of detail, no.


Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold also came out three years before Duke Nukem 3D.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

And while I sort of like Duke 64's handling of the captive women, it opens up questions like "If Duke has some kind of personal teleporter, why doesn't he use that offensively?". Also, Duke 64's change means the women are essentially collectibles – I'd imagine you could see a problem with that.


True, but in the context of Duke Nukem 3D, it would already be a significant improvement.

As for the personal teleporter, it could easily be justified as some sort of emergency device that would send its wearer back to the safety of Duke's HQ or whatever.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

Obviously I disagree, but it's not about not "wanting to be convinced"; it's about you not saying anything convincing.


Who said anything about convincing anyone? I have been defending my position from people who keep telling me I should not have it. Heck, I was not the one who brought misogyny in the first place; it was gemeaux333 acquiescing to Dacoolguy's fearmongering about the fucking feminist system.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

Eh, no. You do need to provide more than that. Your assumptions won't do for anyone but you.


You are the one who keeps insisting on Rockstar possibly wanting to highlight real-world issue with the inclusion of sex workers in their games. But I do not think they have ever admitted to such a thing and their treatment of sex workers in their games has always been nothing short of horrible. That does not leave any room for any other conclusion.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

It is when they lose all meaning in the process.


That is not how language works. Words are not limited-use items.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

And, yes, deliberate poor taste is different from "just" poor taste; it's like the difference between a racist joke and a joke about racism in the form of a racist joke. Though I imagine you don't consider that a valid difference either...


Well then, feel free to explain me just how Duke Nukem 3D is challenging "bad taste" by playing it completely straight.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#371

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 April 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

To Johnny's credit, he is taking on a large number of people in a right-leaning forum. It's not easy to keep your composure when you are getting bashed and insulted by nearly everyone around you.



View PostFlying Techbot, on 06 April 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

The more you confront them and imitate their tactics, the more they're going to downvote you, dismiss you, and insult you.


Considering most of the shots fired and most of the first shots fired were from him, I'm going to have to strongly disagree.


Especially since even those who have been respectful to him have been insulted and later ignored by him entirely.
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#372

View PostFlying Techbot, on 06 April 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

I just don't want to see Duke4.net become a place where only aggressive users tear each other apart when there's no need.


No one's "tearing each other apart". If you notice, it's pretty much one bloke vs everyone else. Can you guess who started it?

PS. The main issue with the far left is that superficially they can seem nicer than the far right (depending on your value system I guess), but in the end they use similar tactics to achieve their political aims.
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#373

View PostFlying Techbot, on 06 April 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

johnnythewolf, you're using the wrong tactics. The more you confront them and imitate their tactics, the more they're going to downvote you, dismiss you, and insult you. Look, I get it. I don't agree with everything you say, but I get it. I just don't want to see you suffer a breakdown because of this discussion board. I do think they've gone overboard in downvoting you, but confronting them aggressively isn't worth it. You're just going to get badly hurt in the process.


Eh. I guess I cannot really object to that. :mellow:

I am not worried about the downvotes, to be honest; it is a meaningless metric, anyway.

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 April 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

No, I said that the female Duke Nukem would not be perceived that way. Why can't you just read my post and see that?


... I did. :unsure:

Anyway, I agree with you that we should leave it at that.

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 06 April 2019 - 04:04 PM

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User is offline   necroslut 

#374

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 06 April 2019 - 03:49 PM, said:

Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold also came out three years before Duke Nukem 3D.

I meant "it couldn't have been done in Duke 3D at a detail level fitting the game".

Quote

True, but in the context of Duke Nukem 3D, it would already be a significant improvement.
As for the personal teleporter, it could easily be justified as some sort of emergency device that would send its wearer back to the safety of Duke's HQ or whatever.

Eh, guess we have to disagree there; because I pretty much see it as making things worse if anything. Yeah, sure, it could be explained in a few different ways, but Duke 64 doesn't do it; my point was really that Duke 64's changes are sloppy and not a good example.

Quote

Who said anything about convincing anyone? I have been defending my position from people who keep telling me I should not have it. Heck, I was not the one who brought misogyny in the first place; it was gemeaux333 acquiescing to Dacoolguy's fearmongering about the fucking feminist system.

You were the one to bring up convincing. I'm not gonna defend the arguments of some of the overemotional morons around here (not referring to you).

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You are the one who keeps insisting on Rockstar possibly wanting to highlight real-world issue with the inclusion of sex workers in their games. But I do not think they have ever admitted to such a thing and their treatment of sex workers in their games has always been nothing short of horrible. That does not leave any room for any other conclusion.

GTA was brought up by you as a comparison. I just tried pointing out that even that seemingly obvious example wasn't really that obvious, because I don't think it is obvious. There is room for doubt and other conclusions, even if I would not draw them. The Housers are morons, but I do think it is possible they sorta meant well on some level.

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That is not how language works. Words are not limited-use items.

Again, not what I was saying. Words get their value from a limited definition. If you stretch the meanings of words like "misogyny" too far, they become useless.

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Well then, feel free to explain me just how Duke Nukem 3D is challenging "bad taste" by playing it completely straight.

Maybe a bad comparison by me, because it wasn't really what I meant. Rather, it is "playing around" with bad taste, and I think rather harmlessly so. Do you take Duke's steroid use in the same way? Or his overblown ego? At the end of the day, it's all make-believe, and there's really nothing indicating it is shaped by any underlying ideology or such.

But, like among others Dan have pointed out, I sort of think it does to an extent "challenge" sexism or misogyny. Duke 3D's world is an exaggerated "sci-fi" 90's; and, like such "satires" tend to do, in the process highlights certain cultural aspects that could be problematic. I don't think it was meant as a feminist manifesto – it's not a political game – but I do think it points to a few questions that could be asked about how some things are done. Maybe by intent, maybe not.

This post has been edited by necroslut: 06 April 2019 - 04:12 PM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#375

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

it opens up questions like "If Duke has some kind of personal teleporter, why doesn't he use that offensively?".

This is way too much of thinking. At this point you could say the same about saved victims in Zombies Ate My Neighbors, victims "teleport" in this game when you save them too. I wish this mechanic was implemented in PC version, might as well have saved babes in stats, kinda like in Zombies Ate My Neighbors. Damn, what a good game it is.
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User is offline   necroslut 

#376

View PostSledgehammer, on 06 April 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

This is way too much of thinking. At this point you could say the same about saved victims in Zombies Ate My Neighbors, victims "teleport" in this game when you save them too. I wish this mechanic was implemented in PC version, might as well have saved babes in stats, kinda like in Zombies Ate My Neighbors. Damn, what a good game it is.

Zombies (as it was known here) is pretty damn cartoonish though, so you can get away with a lot more. As a side note, I remember I used to think Zombies was an influence on Duke 3D; particularly the weapon arsenal with things like the fire extinguisher that froze enemies solid; but also things like destructible walls.

Being able to save babes (or other survivors) – at least if you could save all of them – would have made the tone significantly less dark, for better or for worse. You could save them (by teleporting) in Halloween Harry, which I always thought of as the source inspiration for Duke 3D's slime babes as well as the jetpack.
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#377

I don't think Duke challenged anything. To me it was just a bunch of 80s and 90s memes thrown together as a kind of "look at this goofy ass shit". Sure "young horny males" love masculine protagonists and female nudity, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. People don't need to justify their enjoyment of some low brow humor. It's not a clever game, it's not making any points and that's FINE.
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User is offline   necroslut 

#378

View Postthricecursed, on 06 April 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

I don't think Duke challenged anything. To me it was just a bunch of 80s and 90s memes thrown together as a kind of "look at this goofy ass shit". Sure "young horny males" love masculine protagonists and female nudity, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. People don't need to justify their enjoyment of some low brow humor. It's not a clever game, it's not making any points and that's FINE.

I think it's quite clever in both game design and world building. But, it's a fast-paced first person shooter game, not serious literature.
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#379

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 04:27 PM, said:

I think it's quite clever in both game design and world building.


Yes. In terms of game design, absolutely.
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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • Buy Mage's Initiation!

#380

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 06 April 2019 - 03:49 PM, said:

That is not how language works. Words are not limited-use items.


Totally agree. It's when people arbitrarily change the definitions of words that communication becomes a problem, which is I think the point Trooper was getting at.

Take the innocuous term "contrarian" for instance...

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 06 April 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

I am not worried about the downvotes, to be honest; it is a meaningless metric, anyway.


Agreed again! A few haven't come to see this truth yet so it's good to see you have the right idea there. Nobody much takes the voting system seriously here at all, nor should they.
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#381

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

I meant "it couldn't have been done in Duke 3D at a detail level fitting the game".


I am not talking about a friendly AI companion following you around, but rather just defeated cops that would get teleported back to HQ upon interacting with them.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

Eh, guess we have to disagree there; because I pretty much see it as making things worse if anything. Yeah, sure, it could be explained in a few different ways, but Duke 64 doesn't do it; my point was really that Duke 64's changes are sloppy and not a good example.


Having played the (now unfortunately outdated) Duke Nukem 64 total conversion, I actually enjoyed the changes; although I do not approve of Nintendo's censorship, I do think it got the developers to get creative. My only real beef with it is the lack of music in the levels.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

The Houser's are morons, but I do think it is possible they sorta meant well on some level.


"Morons" implies that they are merely unintelligent, which they clearly are not. Also, to be fair to Dan Houser, I really liked Max Payne 3.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

Words get their value from a limited definition. If you stretch the meanings of words like "misogyny" too far, they become useless.


I do not believe I have. Even the Wikipedia article acknowledges sexual objectification as an aspect of misogyny.

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

Maybe a bad comparison by me, because it wasn't really what I meant. Rather, it is "playing around" with bad taste, and I think rather harmlessly so. Do you take Duke's steroid use in the same way? Or his overblown ego? At the end of the day, it's all make-believe, and there's really nothing indicating it is shaped by any underlying ideology or such.


Well, the steroid thing actually works in the context of Duke Nukem being modelled after real-life action stars/wrestlers known for their substance use. The same goes with his overblown ego; in fact, I am of the opinion that replacing the health bar by an ego bar in Duke Nukem Forever was actually a stroke of genius and an actually clever joke; sure, it made gunfights kind of annoying, but it is funny to think that taking damage can result in a quite literal bruised ego. :lol:

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

But, like among others Dan have pointed out, I sort of think it does to an extent "challenge" sexism or misogyny. Duke 3D's world is an exaggerated "sci-fi" 90's; and, like such "satires" tend to do, in the process highlights certain cultural aspects that could be problematic. I don't think it was meant as a feminist manifesto – it's not a political game – but I do think it points to a few questions that could be asked about how some things are done.


I would object to Duke Nukem 3D's world being exaggerated, as the locations you visit are about as realistic as a 1996 first-person shooter could be. I will never expect Duke Nukem to become a feminist icon - although I think there are ways to pull that off; if Terry Crews can do it, then surely so can Duke - but I do think there is no such thing as a truly apolitical video game, as they are made by people with beliefs that will inevitably influence the way they design the games. Politics do not always have to be overt statements, after all; it can be as simple and subtle as having the protagonist resolves conflicts through violence or not. It goes without saying that someone who firmly believes that violence does not solve anything would never design a militaristic shooter. :P

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 06 April 2019 - 04:54 PM

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#382

With Borderlands 3 releasing in September, what do you guys think the odds are of seeing Duke 5 sooner rather than later even if another company takes it on? I expected BL3 late next year so it gave me a bit of that damn hope we all can’t shake.
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User is offline   necroslut 

#383

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 06 April 2019 - 04:51 PM, said:

I am not talking about a friendly AI companion following you around, but rather just defeated cops that would get teleported back to HQ upon interacting with them.

Ah, guess I misunderstood you then. Yes, they obviously could have done something like that.

Quote

Having played the (now unfortunately outdated) Duke Nukem 64 total conversion, I actually enjoyed the changes; although I do not approve of Nintendo's censorship, I do think it got the developers to get creative. My only real beef with it is the lack of music in the levels.

Poorly worded by me; I meant specifically the changes done in regards to the women.

Quote

"Morons" implies that they are merely unintelligent, which they clearly are not. Also, to be fair to Dan Houser, I really liked Max Payne 3.

It was not meant literaly, more so in the sense of "doesn't know what the hell they're doing"; "hacks". I found Max Payne 3 far more objectionable than any of the Duke games, or even the GTA games, in addition to disliking it for (IMO) butchering its Max Payne heritage... I thought it was remarkably sleazy. But that's veering quite a bit off-topic...

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I do not believe I have. Even the Wikipedia article acknowledges sexual objectification as an aspect of misogyny.

It can be, obviously; but then I think we're talking far more severe forms of sexual objectifaction. Then there's also the issue that, generally, objectification is something done to real people, who inherently are not objects. Again, the women in Duke 3D are not real, and I do not think he significantly objectifies them, at least not in a misogynistic manner. In the game they are objects, but so is he.

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Well, the steroid thing actually works in the context of Duke Nukem being modelled after real-life action stars/wrestlers known for their substance use. The same goes with his overblown ego; in fact, I am of the opinion that replacing the health bar by an ego bar in Duke Nukem Forever was actually a stroke of genius and an actually clever joke; sure, it made gunfights kind of annoying, but it is funny to think that taking damage can result in a quite literal bruised ego. :lol:

It was, but it would have been even better if it was the original implementation, rather than being retooled as just regenerating health.
The point was, though, that Duke is not meant as a role model, nor as a representation of the developers.

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I would object to Duke Nukem 3D's world being exaggerated, as the locations you visit are about as realistic as a 1996 first-person shooter could be. I will never expect Duke Nukem to become a feminist icon - although I think there are ways to pull that off; if Terry Crews can do it, then surely so can Duke - but I do think there is no such thing as a truly apolitical video game, as they are made by people with beliefs that will inevitably influence the way they design the games. Politics do not always have to be overt statements, after all; it can be as simple and subtle as having the protagonist resolves conflicts through violence or not. It goes without saying that someone who firmly believes that violence does not solve anything would never design a militaristic shooter. :P

I agree about nothing being entirely apolitical, but surely there is a wide spectrum. Obviously, there's the openly political or activist games, but also something like Call of Duty is much more political than Duke.

For the last part; I don't think that's necessarily true at all. Games are fictional, and its entirely possibly to, in a game, remove (or just not implement) the aspects or results of real world violence that you believe make it unusable in the real world. Why you would do that is a different matter, but there are tons of reasons for playing around with ideas, themes or subject matter other than them representing your real views.
For instance, a friend of mine once developed a nazi death camp simulator of sorts. Not a nazi, not an advocate for genocide, etc. Very much in bad taste, as he was aware, but the whole point was that it was so extremely offensive it became funny. And humor isn't the only reason either; I believe "toying around" with the darker aspects of humanity can be very useful. Games can give us the opportunity to explore those aspects in a safe environment without much in the way of consequence.

View Posthismasterplan, on 06 April 2019 - 05:09 PM, said:

With Borderlands 3 releasing in September, what do you guys think the odds are of seeing Duke 5 sooner rather than later even if another company takes it on? I expected BL3 late next year so it gave me a bit of that damn hope we all can’t shake.

Borderlands 3 doing super well is probably the best hope for a new Duke game. With enough money in Gearbox' pockets they can afford to do passion projects without having to convince a publisher.
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#384

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 05:35 PM, said:

I found Max Payne 3 far more objectionable than any of the Duke games, or even the GTA games, in addition to disliking it for (IMO) butchering its Max Payne heritage... I thought it was remarkably sleazy. But that's veering quite a bit off-topic...


Oh my, really? Now, I am curious. :unsure:
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#385

View Postnecroslut, on 06 April 2019 - 05:35 PM, said:

In the game they are objects, but so is he.

Dildos have rights.
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User is offline   Noddy 

#386

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With Borderlands 3 releasing in September, what do you guys think the odds are of seeing Duke 5 sooner rather than later even if another company takes it on? I expected BL3 late next year so it gave me a bit of that damn hope we all can’t shake.


Yeah, I get you bro, it's that I just think that we will not see a new Duke game anytime soon, at least not one by Gearbox. I mean just look at Gearbox, full of problems, SJW, and you think they will get Duke right. I truly admire your optimism, because I don't think they understand or don't like the Duke universe, and I would be pleasantly surprised if they could pull it off. They should give it someone who knows how to make a good old school FPS.

Maybe we should start a petition, or generate some buzz about Duke Nukem and see how they respond. I know this sound naive, but I'm just tired of promises and waiting for a new Duke game.

This post has been edited by Noddy: 23 April 2019 - 06:24 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#387

Duke Nukem is highly respected and beloved, even by SJWs, or else he will rip their heads and shit down their necks (regular/hardcore fans would like him to do that to themselves, just like Deadpool liked to be torn apart by his giant hero of his)

Perhaps an idea for DN5 : fighting the space SJWs and other feminazi's prejudgements

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 23 April 2019 - 08:19 AM

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#388

Imagine wanting to see Duke Nukem feeling threatened by people advocating for a more just society. :rolleyes:

But then again, there seems to be people upset by Jax ending slavery in Mortal Kombat 11, so I guess I should not be surprised. <_<

This post has been edited by johnnythewolf: 23 April 2019 - 10:07 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

#389

View Postjohnnythewolf, on 23 April 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

But then again, there seems to be people upset by Jax ending slavery in Mortal Kombat 11, so I guess I should not be surprised. <_<

Just a few idiots shouting on the internet (as they always are), chances are they are the same idiots who were upset when they introduced a gay character in MKX. Nobody gives a damn, especially since the game is giving predatory a new meaning with its microtransactions.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 24 April 2019 - 06:06 AM

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#390

For what i would consider idea of DN5 is some weird well written story clusterf*ck of random mixed ideas and enemies. Aliens on one side, Dr.Proton another return an another side, and on third same some Human hostile army that want to liquidate Duke making Duke always in trouble no matter how he much fighting thru. Of this is my idea on it and my opinion. Well you gyus probably going to tell me i played to much Half-Life, but a game consdering both elements of Duke and Half-Life would be nice to see, at least for me. :)
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