Duke Being Put To Pasture?
#121 Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:13 PM
So putting this together, it means that the new gameplay element would have to do specifically with gunplay. Yeah, that doesn't narrow it down much.
#122 Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:59 PM
#123 Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:11 PM
MusicallyInspired, on 07 February 2019 - 02:59 PM, said:
I don't want to get sidetracked by debating whether the animations were "long". Here's the crux of the issue: when fighting weak enemies that you should be able to kill very quickly, it's annoying to feel obligated to use glory kills because you want the drops; get enough weak enemies together and it drastically increases time to kill and breaks of the action a lot.
#124 Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:34 PM
#125 Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:50 PM
Conversely, the finishing moves in DNF were very flat and seemed like a tacked on nuisance.
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 07 February 2019 - 03:58 PM
#126 Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:53 PM
MusicallyInspired, on 07 February 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:
So would you like to see something like a glory kill system in a Duke game? Admittedly, it does fit his character.
#127 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:00 PM
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 07 February 2019 - 04:01 PM
#128 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:11 PM
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 07 February 2019 - 04:11 PM
#129 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:24 PM
Baaaaaahhh.
#130 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:53 PM
I feel like graphics and physics in games have improved by leaps and bounds, but in the area of gameplay, and in particular how damage is handled, most games haven't progressed much since the 90's. When we damage enemies, it's either straight hit points or its hit points plus a "status effect" -- which will be one of a small number of statuses that do simple things to the entire enemy. For example, if an enemy is "burning" then the entire enemy is burning, and this simply causes damage over time. As for hit locations in games: Typically, when you shoot an enemy there is a "crit spot" --usually the head, and then there is everything else. Some games will allow you to cripple the legs, and some allow other limb cripping (the Fallout series for all its flaws at least attempts this) but it's still pretty basic. Each limb is given a certain number of hit points, it functions normally until they are gone, and then it is in a crippled state. What I propose is real physics and biology applied to the whole character model, so there are no discrete parts, it is all one organic whole with sub-model processes and realistic interconnections. If something like that is implemented it could open up a whole new world of possibilities for weapon effects and how weapons are used.
#131 Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:00 PM
Zaxx, on 07 February 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:
It's not because storytelling is in and of itself bad, but rather because the AAA Games Industry uses storytelling to artificially drag out the length of the game. Duke games should tell the story through gameplay, not through cut scenes. Duke "stories" are classic "Bad guy do bad thing, good guy shoot bad guys, save the chicks and everyone loves you."
Zaxx, on 07 February 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:
The problem is that if you tell the AAA Games Industry "I want more story" then you're going to get a pile of shit. DNF had more story!
Nancsi, on 07 February 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:
Bullshit. They're still just as good as they ever were. You're just a sensitive baby.
Nancsi, on 07 February 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:
Fucking no! This is a TERRIBLE idea. Duke's trademark is a gritty, dystopian, neo-futurism. You wanna turn Duke into a fucking kids game.
MusicallyInspired, on 07 February 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:
Duke Nukem is a male power fantasy. He was ALWAYS a badass. Does anyone want to see a film of John Matrix in high school being a dweeb? Fuck no. John Matrix was always chomping cigars and carrying thousand pound logs. That's who he is.
Trooper Dan, on 07 February 2019 - 02:13 PM, said:
So putting this together, it means that the new gameplay element would have to do specifically with gunplay. Yeah, that doesn't narrow it down much.
This 100%. DNF's HUGE mistake was limiting Duke's arsenal. I'll tell you a gimmick: 30+ weapons/gadgets. I'm talking every gun from Duke3D, Zero Hour, Time to Kill, Shadow Warrior, etc. Bring back large fun weapon arsenals. Everything has a useful alt-fire or alt-ammo.
Trooper Dan, on 07 February 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:
Glory kills are the worst aspect of Doom 2016. Brutal Doom is shit and no one should copy it.
Trooper Dan, on 07 February 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:
Against bosses only. You get a reward for beating the episode, if you ripped the heads off every enemy and shit down their neck it's not very cool. But if you do it to the big bad boss man, it's hilarious.
#132 Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:09 PM
#133 Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:11 PM
Trooper Dan, on 07 February 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:
#134 Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:45 PM
High Treason, on 07 February 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:
Baaaaaahhh.
Get outta here, Glory Kills are not QTEs.
Also, I hit downvote and it upvoted you instead.
So just know that.
....that'll teach em.
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 07 February 2019 - 05:48 PM
#135 Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:41 PM
Well, that's new.
#136 Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:21 PM
Jimmy 100MPH, on 07 February 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:
Not that I'm sensitive to such stuff. Never had been a feminist or having some anti-male agenda. It was just a forced lame humor for adolescents. Like the sitcom series Married with Children. Also fucking hate that 99 of 100 people only knows Duke from the "I want chew ass" quote and stripper tipping, not because of the great gunfight, futuristic atmosphere or handcrafted leveldesign.
Quote
Duke 3D's art style is already cartoonish with saturated colours and over the top characters like pigcops and octabrains. Ion Maiden went even further with the colours, yet it's still a dystopian, cyberpunk game. Heck, even your avatar is a cartoonish version of the pigcop, yet it doesn't look like something for kids. You just can't imagine how many shit can be done with creative cartoonish art IF it's done right. Wrack failed on many levels like generic levels and annoying monsters, but it's art was unique.
This post has been edited by Nancsi: 07 February 2019 - 07:25 PM
#137 Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:33 PM
This post has been edited by Jimmy 100MPH: 07 February 2019 - 07:35 PM
#138 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:27 PM
Nowadays many devs discovered the power of stylized "retro" art, and don't give fuck to "natural progression". Duke's over the top character and his over the top foes are much better fit for this stylized look imho, you can argue if it can work with the style of Wrack or the style if Dusk or others, but your arguments like "natural progression" is wrong.
If you want a Duke game with improved Duke3D look, ask Todd Replogle and the original dev team to make you the next Duke game.
#139 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:42 PM
#141 Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:05 AM
Trooper Dan, on 07 February 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:
All of this is in Resident Evil 2 btw.:
Since the zombies are very durable the gore system is part of the gameplay too: for example if you shoot a zombie's both arms off it will no longer be able to grab you, if you shoot them in half they'll still be able to grab your legs but only if you run right into their faces (their range will be shit and they can't turn fast so they'll just reach out for you and miss if you're just running next to them). If you shoot all limbs off and somehow they are still alive they'll crawl on the ground very slowly but the only thing they can do is just trying to bite you when they are near (and if you're not standing right in their faces they'll miss).
However I don't think stuff like this would work in an FPS: in a survival horror game you always conserve ammo because your objective is to just navigate the environment without getting killed but in an FPS you just shoot and move on. Doom 2016 had a very detailed gore system, I think the majority of players did not even notice it. Quake Champions has a very elaborate, dynamic gore system too but the game is so fast that you just can't pay attention to it, even the trailer can't show it off well in gameplay:
What would make sense I guess is if enemies changed their attacks based on their wounds, like for example if you shoot a pig cop's arm off he'd just charget at you for a bite. Doom Eternal seems to have another good solution: there the damage you do to enemies will be just very visible and that's all (on top of the stuff the 2016 game already had I guess).
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 08 February 2019 - 05:07 AM
#142 Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:01 AM
Jimmy 100MPH, on 07 February 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:
Fun Fact: Doom 2016 had glory kills even before Brutal Doom. In Doom 4 1.0 alpha, it was called "sync melee kills"
But I agree that glory kills are a bad aspect of Doom 2016. Not because the animations are bad (infact they are really good). The problem is that it is a mandatory gameplay mechanic. Wanna replenish ammo/health, go perform a glory kill.
#145 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:26 AM
#146 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:27 AM
Zaxx, on 08 February 2019 - 05:05 AM, said:
Man, I could go on for pages trying to argue with that, but I don't have time.
I guess I'll just say this: I do get your point, but there are many ways that a sophisticated damage & AI can work in an FPS, even if it doesn't make a big difference in every single encounter.
#147 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:30 AM
- You only need glory kills if you're at a stack deficit and there are no health pickups around. If you don't have that problem, just shoot away.
- A glory kill is a risky move if there are other enemies around, it's just very easy to put yourself into a bad position when you're going in for a glory kill. If you're playing on Ultra Nightmare you're pretty much banned from doing glory kills because of the risks.
So no, it's not a mandatory gameplay mechanic, there is plenty of health and armor on the maps. What is kind of mandatory on the other hand is the chainsaw because at some parts ammo can be a problem.
#148 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:39 AM
#149 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:51 AM
Jimmy 100MPH, on 07 February 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:
Indeed.
#150 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:31 PM
I hope I don't upset anyone with my minority opinion.