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Random HTTKC discussion  "Split from the Ion Maiden thread"

User is offline   LAW 

  • 22

#1

After reading 52 pages of this topic and looking around voidpoint.com I finally realized what is going on. I hope that one day, one of the dream projects from my childhood will see the light of the day. And by that project I mean Hail To The King Collection for Duke, because it would contain all I wanted to play.

Termin X. I must appologize for my last private message to you, but you must understand I am a quite rare guest of these forums these days. I just didn't know. You are not one of my most beloved persons from this community, but man, you do have a big, bussiness head and you do a good job.

Good luck!

Ok Jackie, now it's my turn...

This post has been edited by LAW: 01 May 2018 - 11:11 AM

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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #2

View PostPerro Seco, on 30 April 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

If the game has a save game menu, then I don't understand why there should be a quick save option or autosaves. It makes dying more like a joke, but I guess there's not much to do to avoid frustration on today's lazy kids. :D

Flexibility. You can play the game however you want--play it like a modern game where the game does all the saving itself and death just sets you back a bit, or turn the save checkpoints off and rely entirely on manual saves, etc. My understanding is that we're also supporting restarting the level with only the pistol in the full version as well.

View PostLAW, on 01 May 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

You are not one of my most beloved persons from this community, but man, you do have a big, bussiness head and you do a good job.

Good luck!

Thanks. It's always nice when someone who doesn't like you has something good to say about you anyway. :D

Yes, we are somehow realizing the dream of making our own Build game and having 3DR publish it.

I still want to do HTTKC someday, even if it would have to be without Nuclear Winter, Caribbean, and Duke it out in DC--Gearbox implies that the rights to those aren't secured and that their inclusion in Megaton Edition wasn't legal. Regardless, the ports of Duke Nukem 64 and Total Meltdown are very good and I still believe that making them available to a wider audience via official release would be a commercial success. There are literally millions of people who played these games on consoles who are unable to get the exact experience they remember without finding the mod versions of 64 and TM or using the original hardware, which in the case of TM was barely even playable.

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User is offline   LAW 

  • 22

#3

View PostTerminX, on 01 May 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

Thanks. It's always nice when someone who doesn't like you has something good to say about you anyway. :D


I guess it was a sarcasm. I didn't say I don't like you, maybe in the past, but it was back then. Now it is a rough friendship ;)

Quote

Regardless, the ports of Duke Nukem 64 and Total Meltdown are very good


Rare thing to be heard on the PC gaming forum. I am pleased.

Quote

which in the case of TM was barely even playable.


I have had two copies of this game and the first real slowdown I have encountered was in the Spin Cicle level. I found the game to be very, very playable.

I will PM you again. Please try to answer in the meantime.

Ok Jackie, now it's my turn...
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User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 298

#4

Plug and Pray is amazing, don't listen to the naysayers. And I love Nightmare Zone. Great adventure level.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

  • 499

#5

View PostTerminX, on 01 May 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

I still want to do HTTKC someday, even if it would have to be without Nuclear Winter, Caribbean, and Duke it out in DC--Gearbox implies that the rights to those aren't secured and that their inclusion in Megaton Edition wasn't legal. Regardless, the ports of Duke Nukem 64 and Total Meltdown are very good and I still believe that making them available to a wider audience via official release would be a commercial success. There are literally millions of people who played these games on consoles who are unable to get the exact experience they remember without finding the mod versions of 64 and TM or using the original hardware, which in the case of TM was barely even playable.

I didn't realise until today that HTTKC was to include DN64 and Total Meltdown ports, I totally agree that an official PC release of these would be awesome, hopefully it will come true one day.[/offtopic]
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User is offline   JumpJaneJump 

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#6

View PostTerminX, on 01 May 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

...even if it would have to be without Nuclear Winter, Caribbean, and Duke it out in DC--Gearbox implies that the rights to those aren't secured and that their inclusion in Megaton Edition wasn't legal.

This is obscene. The license is being handled terribly if this the case.

It should be very very simple. Do you have permission to make a Duke Nukem game? Yes? You have access to reference and reuse all Duke Nukem concepts and content that have ever existed within the franchise. This would create an ecosystem of creativity that *might* create some franchise friction but that's far less of an issue until the franchise is generating enough revenue to properly fund a universe management team who does nothing but collate legacy info into the one true Duke Bible and then sell to Disney. Until then... maybe be more interested in making it worth people's time to use your franchise. :wallbash:

Let go and let people make some games again and try their best to extend your legacy into the future. :dukestar:
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User is offline   JumpJaneJump 

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#7

View PostZaxx, on 03 May 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

I think it's more about a false sense of knowledge: "It's a shooter, I know how to play shooters".

As for reviewers, especially when it comes to the current "internet age" I think the main problem is the lack of time. When you have to produce content for Youtube or when you're writing a review for a website you have to work fast if you want to have people to watch / read your shit because if you take your time your review will be the last one out and at that point people will just stop caring.

I 100% agree with you. I have been bit by the "I know how to play a shooter... FU... OH SHIT!".

Have you contemplated an alternative?
Is our destiny gravitationally bound to the lowest common viewer?
Is the big bang the moment the capable can no longer stand being equated with the n00bs?

This post has been edited by JumpJaneJump: 04 May 2018 - 04:12 PM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #8

View PostJumpJaneJump, on 04 May 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

This is obscene. The license is being handled terribly if this the case.

Atari claims another victim, I guess.
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User is offline   JumpJaneJump 

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#9

View PostHendricks266, on 04 May 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

Atari claims another victim, I guess.

I want to hear this out in the open... Atari is entirely responsible for blocking NW/Carib/DC from being available to all Duke Nukem IP projects utilizing/referencing them?

This post has been edited by JumpJaneJump: 04 May 2018 - 04:18 PM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #10

"I guess" = speculation. I haven't been told a single thing.
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User is offline   JumpJaneJump 

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#11

Well I've now vented to the dual outlets I have. That means as much as it means.

My venting means nothing, but it's something.

This post has been edited by JumpJaneJump: 04 May 2018 - 05:15 PM

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User is offline   JumpJaneJump 

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#12

View PostHendricks266, on 04 May 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

"I guess" = speculation. I haven't been told a single thing.

Who do you as a person wishing to access them... understand holds the reins on usage of NW/DC/DC?
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User is offline   Fox 

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#13

I presume they are in copyright limbo. It's probably not possible to determine who owns the rights to them, and surely not worth the investment of investigating it.

This post has been edited by Fox: 05 May 2018 - 08:03 PM

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User is online   NightFright 

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#14

I don't see any way of the addons being re-released unless some former boss (or at least person with some kind of authority) of WizardWorks steps forward and puts things in motion. This is quite unlikely to happen, and unless there is another solution I am not aware of, the addons might stay locked away indefinitely. Quite sad.
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User is online   Mark. 

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#15

View PostFox, on 05 May 2018 - 08:02 PM, said:

I presume they are in copyright limbo. It's probably not possible to determine who owns the rights to them, and surely not worth the investment of investigating it.


As evidenced by the dozens and dozens of pages of posts from "pretend" lawyers in the forum we would have no problem finding people to litigate for free. :D
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User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 110

#16

I guess we should be happy we at least got them through Megaton Edition.

What would the legal situation for including Duke 64 and Total Meltdown (and maybe even the Saturn music pack) in a commercial release be like?
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User is online   Micky C 

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#17

I'm assuming that since they're ports of Duke Nukem 3D, which was itself directly developed by 3DR, that they'd probably have the rights to it, and that's my professional opinion as a pretend lawyer.

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User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 298

#18

I don't think Gearbox will add DN64 as it had hacked versions of the original levels, and there are too many other differences as well like new weapons and modified art. How can those work next to the original game, I can't imagine.

Plug n Pray is something that could fit between The Birth and Alien World Order as a semi official episode, although without those weird changes in palette/textures. It's advantage of not being in conflict with the other episodes (except some minor unnecessary Protector Drone art change in The Birth, but even that can be fixed easily, since they weren't used in game). Some questions the quality of the levels, and the boss is a joke (although not worse than AWO's flamer Cycloid) though. I still think it's a safest bet for an official inclusion, more so than any of the 3 Megaton episodes.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 193

#19

View PostNancsi, on 07 May 2018 - 12:25 AM, said:

I don't think Gearbox will add DN64 as it had hacked versions of the original levels, and there are too many other differences as well like new weapons and modified art. How can those work next to the original game, I can't imagine.

Plug n Pray is something that could fit between The Birth and Alien World Order as a semi official episode, although without those weird changes in palette/textures. It's advantage of not being in conflict with the other episodes (except some minor unnecessary Protector Drone art change in The Birth, but even that can be fixed easily, since they weren't used in game). Some questions the quality of the levels, and the boss is a joke (although not worse than AWO's flamer Cycloid) though. I still think it's a safest bet for an official inclusion, more so than any of the 3 Megaton episodes.

Honestly after playing through PnP I don't think it's quite on the level where an official Duke 3D episode should be. With a bit of polished and some changes to pacing in level design it could be though, that's what I'd like to see in an official re-release of Duke 3D one day.
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User is offline   Nancsi 

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#20

View PostZaxx, on 07 May 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

Honestly after playing through PnP I don't think it's quite on the level where an official Duke 3D episode should be. With a bit of polished and some changes to pacing in level design it could be though, that's what I'd like to see in an official re-release of Duke 3D one day.


I always felt the author started rushing the episode after the first 3 levels. Despite the flaws of NZ and TT, they are pretty ambitious work, large maps with interesting layouts and great concepts, with some polish they could even be great maps. GM is the best of the bunch as it was made with care, but also without those flaws that appeared in the first 2 maps. After that I felt the rest of the levels were just done in days to finish the thing in the proposed time. Alien Rendezvous looks bad even for a secret level.

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 07 May 2018 - 01:17 AM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #21

View PostZaxx, on 07 May 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

Honestly after playing through PnP I don't think it's quite on the level where an official Duke 3D episode should be. With a bit of polished and some changes to pacing in level design it could be though, that's what I'd like to see in an official re-release of Duke 3D one day.

What are your thoughts on PnP vs NW?
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User is online   Phredreeke 

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#22

PnP at its worst is on about the same level as NW at its best.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 193

#23

View PostPhredreeke, on 07 May 2018 - 07:47 AM, said:

PnP at its worst is on about the same level as NW at its best.

I dunno, I did not feel the pain when I played PnP but when it comes to NW all I felt was pain. :D
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User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 298

#24

I stay with my unpopular opinion, but I think PnP captured the Duke atmosphere better than Duke it out in DC. It just had that dynamic gameplay, various exploration elements, cool lighting and shading stuff, good use of random lights and cyclers that had been part of the original episodes. It also had a more sensible and thought out enemy placement.

DC has some nice architecture, but the gameplay is mercilessly boring, and the lack of colours and lights also hurt a lot.

Nuclear Winter is like 10000 feet below PnP.
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User is online   Phredreeke 

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#25

I dunno. I would say Santa Corporate HQ and Christmas Village are about on-par with Alien Rendezvous and Ministry of Fear, the latter are more polished, but they still don't play good.
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User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 298

#26

View PostPhredreeke, on 07 May 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I dunno. I would say Santa Corporate HQ and Christmas Village are about on-par with Alien Rendezvous and Ministry of Fear, the latter are more polished, but they still don't play good.


Ministry of Fear is a very interesting concept, I liked its atmosphere, texturing, the different volume of the music as you play on different parts of the map, but it still felt rushed, and became very short at the end.

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 07 May 2018 - 10:33 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#27

They set us up. It's all bullshit, all of it! The contracts and licenses, the whole business. Got Nerve in there to do their dirty work. So they cooked up a story and dropped us in a meat grinder!

""Long awaited sequel" switching to the Unreal engine? What could possibly go wrong?" - Micky C

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 07 May 2018 - 01:08 PM

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User is offline   Fox 

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#28

View PostNancsi, on 07 May 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

I stay with my unpopular opinion, but I think PnP captured the Duke atmosphere better than Duke it out in DC. It just had that dynamic gameplay, various exploration elements, cool lighting and shading stuff, good use of random lights and cyclers that had been part of the original episodes. It also had a more sensible and thought out enemy placement.

DC has some nice architecture, but the gameplay is mercilessly boring, and the lack of colours and lights also hurt a lot.

Nuclear Winter is like 10000 feet below PnP.

IMHO none of the official releases is like the original 3 episodes. With the except of some secret levels, the 3 episodes have a very dynamic gameplay.

The Birth has the best graphics and level design, but the second half of the episode is not very fun. D.C. and Caribbean are very fun in the beginning, but they just feel dragged later. Nuclear Winter is a joke. Plug and Pray has better level design than the add-ons, but the gameplay is atypical, since it was a console port.
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User is online   NightFright 

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#29

The Birth was using rejected or unused maps from Duke3D development, and at least in some maps, it kinda shows. Especially XXX-Stacy with its weird parts (that Shrinkray slime river...) and Critical Mass which just looks a bit unpolished are good examples.

Nevertheless, the atmosphere of this episode is unique and delivers this kinda oppressive and/or weird feeling, supported by Lee Jackson's excellent soundtrack. It's something that was rarely achieved again later on - maybe with Jason Bredhauer's ep.4 imitation in JJDuke.
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User is offline   MetHy 

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#30

View PostFox, on 07 May 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

Plug and Pray has better level design than the add-ons


Not you too now !

Oh well, feels like you caught the PnP virus.

My prescription:
- Daily dose of Life's A Beach episode, 2 maps every morning and evening

Don't stop your treatment until you realize PnP is shit. Never skip a map and come back see me next week.


This post has been edited by MetHy: 08 May 2018 - 12:03 AM

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