A Call to Action: An open and direct discussion about the possibility of starting a community driven project "Hear me out..."
#61 Posted 22 October 2020 - 09:26 PM
EDIT: Although this reminded me of something that I meant to bring up a while ago, whatever happened to DukeSpana? They had a large community and some unique projects came out of there, then a couple months ago I noticed it was gone and it's still gone.
This post has been edited by Jimmy: 22 October 2020 - 10:10 PM
#62 Posted 23 October 2020 - 01:50 AM
And I don't mean to dig up old dirt, but Duke4's reputation might take a while to recover given what some people think about it. Y'know, someone might come, see the F word being used in general gaming and decide this wasn't their kind of place. The whole IF censorship debacle didn't help matters.
You'd think there would be more frequent Duke content despite all that since the fan-base is larger, but I guess not?
In spirit I agree with you jkas789, but my advice to you is: be the change you want to see in the world. Reach out to those other communities/individuals and try to get them involved, since you seem passionate about it. No one's stopping you.
Very generally (without pointing a finger at anyone), I also want to say that conservatives are less creative than liberals....on average. Take that to mean what you will.
#63 Posted 23 October 2020 - 02:01 AM
Just I think it's better to go for original creative ideas (Jkas pretty much had the whole scenario for an episode drawn out a couple posts earlier with that Arizona thing - it could work well even without new/WT textures as Duke has plenty of country/desert/canyon tiles that work well with hi-tech alien stuff). Lameduke and betas are cool, but that's mostly because they're betas with all their faults. I know it's mainly nostalgia that pushes us towards that stuff (same goes for "shovelware" quality or complete newbie maps from circa 96), but milking that cow too much is not a good idea either, as re-creating nostalgia often results in all the magic being lost.
#64 Posted 23 October 2020 - 03:36 AM
Jimmy, on 22 October 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:
Jimmy, on 22 October 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:
Jimmy, on 22 October 2020 - 09:26 PM, said:
#65 Posted 23 October 2020 - 04:12 AM
Perro Seco, on 23 October 2020 - 03:36 AM, said:
TC is looking super good, I remember you posting a screenshot from one of those locations on your ModDB page (or a similar one) before but only just now realized that you're working on something this ambitious. I almost never make time for playing TC's but I'll definitely be checking this one out, it's looking pretty unique, best of luck with it.
Shame to hear about Duke España, 2020 has been a heavy year for good Duke sites with first Dukemaps going down and now this.
This post has been edited by ck3D: 23 October 2020 - 04:12 AM
#66 Posted 23 October 2020 - 06:00 AM
To Jimmy and Cartaphallus, I'll take your comments into consideration. I personally don't think that Raze is a bad thing. If anything having more than one dominant software on a niche is always a good thing. Competition and necesity is the mother of invention.
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You'd think there would be more frequent Duke content despite all that since the fan-base is larger, but I guess not?
I partially disagree on that. I like the fact that the word fuck can be used on general gaming. I like the fact that on this community you and everyone can butt head and have strong opinions about things Cartaphallus. Freespeech on the internet is a dying breed dude.
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Nobody brought politics into this mate. So please be kind and don't. Besides half the worlds literature was brought by what by today's standards would be conservative people.
Anyways I have to go make some people's life miserable so i'll see you all later.
This post has been edited by jkas789: 23 October 2020 - 06:01 AM
#67 Posted 23 October 2020 - 06:19 AM
jkas789, on 23 October 2020 - 06:00 AM, said:
You misunderstand me. I'm saying this forum, which leans right (although I no longer think it's QUITE as bad as I may have said in the past), probably attracted people who are less creative, since on average that appears to be the case with conservatives. I am not here to disparage anyone, but there is a genetic basis for belief systems that actually stretches beyond who people will vote for, being represented by measurable mental traits. Jordan Peterson talks about how you need the liberals to start companies and the conservatives to run them (and you really do NEED them!). So him and I use these words less politically and more in terms of denoting the aforementioned mental traits.
jkas789, on 23 October 2020 - 06:00 AM, said:
Yes, by today's standards and not the standards of their time. This is key.
Anyway, it was a minor point, but I just wanted to clarify. Not trying to pick a fight.
Oh yeah, and I didn't mean the word fuck. I'll say fuck all day on here.
This post has been edited by Cartaphallus: 23 October 2020 - 06:44 AM
#68 Posted 23 October 2020 - 07:12 AM
(Also I just can't not keep this to myself but in helping an intern I have sewed the most beautiful ear I have ever seen. To be more specific the result of my sewing was the beautiful thing. Not the original ear.)
#69 Posted 23 October 2020 - 07:29 AM
jkas789, on 22 October 2020 - 09:01 PM, said:
I think you misunderstand something. We're not lacking talent on Duke4, and a sudden influx of new noobs is not all that valuable. You've been here 3 months but you're already saying that we're "stagnating"? You've never made a level but you say "ideas remain the same"?
We're a community centered around a game from 25 years ago. Appreciation of classic content does not follow the sharp upward trend lines you expect from fads, except after something new debuts and brings in new attention. Classic things don't rise drastically, but they also don't fall drastically. They stay consistent, perhaps with long-term growth.
An example:
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"I've never worked on a game [or mod] before" means their application goes into the circular file. "Interest" is not all that important if they have no experience.
If they want to join the community, that's great. If they want to start modding on their own, making their own project or maybe just a portfolio, even better. But for "a 25th anniversary ultimate edition community mod" they're not going to be able to help on the level truly necessary.
#70 Posted 23 October 2020 - 08:28 AM
I think that we can pull of at least one CBP8-scaled user map, presumably done in a classic style. I have a sort of a "pipeline" that I initially wanted to use for my Doom-like idea, but which can be easily applied to a regular Duke map.
The best thing that we by all means can do is just keep working on our personal projects and make'em so good that we all would be proud of it.
This post has been edited by Sanek: 23 October 2020 - 08:28 AM
#71 Posted 23 October 2020 - 08:39 AM
Hendricks266, on 23 October 2020 - 07:29 AM, said:
I think you misunderstand something. We're not lacking talent on Duke4, and a sudden influx of new noobs is not all that valuable. You've been here 3 months but you're already saying that we're "stagnating"? We're a community centered around a game from 25 years ago. Appreciation of classic content does not follow the sharp upward trend lines you expect from fads, except after something new debuts and brings in new attention.
"I've never worked on a game [or mod] before" means their application goes into the circular file. "Interest" is not all that important if they have no experience.
If they want to join the community, that's great. If they want to start modding on their own, making their own project or maybe just a portfolio, even better. But for "a 25th anniversary ultimate edition community mod" they're not going to be able to help on the level truly necessary.
That's harsh... but not incorrect.
#73 Posted 23 October 2020 - 09:10 AM
Hendricks266, on 23 October 2020 - 07:29 AM, said:
If they want to join the community, that's great. If they want to start modding on their own, making their own project or maybe just a portfolio, even better. But for "a 25th anniversary ultimate edition community mod" they're not going to be able to help on the level truly necessary.
Furthermore, for the talent that exists, they are more likely to contribute to a project that's already got something to show for itself (AA, AMC TC, WGR) than a brand new project.
#74 Posted 23 October 2020 - 09:32 AM
Don't get me wrong: when enthusiasm swells, that is a good thing. But if the major contributors to the enthusiasm don't know what they're doing, it becomes poseury.
Cartaphallus, on 23 October 2020 - 08:41 AM, said:
That's ripe coming from someone claiming your political leaning dictates what roles you are useful in.
Cartaphallus, on 23 October 2020 - 01:50 AM, said:
"Some irrelevant and nasty people think you have cooties. It sure would be a shame if you didn't '*checks notes*' do whatever they say."
Get that saboteur bullshit out of here.
#75 Posted 23 October 2020 - 10:28 AM
The experienced mappers who have been around for many years are capable of making a decent quality vanilla styled map in just a few days, if it is small. I've seen them do it plenty of times. Assuming the 25th anniversary is for the date of the full Duke 3D release, that's not until mid-April. Plenty of time. At some point if people want it, maybe someone (e.g. James or I ) could come in and modify the weapons and a few other things to give them more pizzaz while keeping the vanilla theme (not a major overhaul, just a little something here and there).
Or don't. It's really fine either way.
#76 Posted 23 October 2020 - 05:28 PM
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Agreed.
#77 Posted 23 October 2020 - 09:24 PM
Embittered Phallus, on 23 October 2020 - 01:50 AM, said:
Their fans are much more rabid than Duke's fans. Trust me dude, DNF, nu-3DR/Interceptor, Gearbox, and JSJ have done more to hurt this community than any other person or group. Duke Nukem has left such a bad taste in many people's mouths. And honestly, I might be a bit biased here, but the 10 year obsession with the HRP did a lot of damage too. Just think about how many people used Doomsday 10 years ago compared to now.
Embittered Phallus, on 23 October 2020 - 01:50 AM, said:
I've always argued that making Duke4 the "hub" for the Duke community was objectively a mistake. It was originally Postwhores Paradise, some bizarre mixture of 4chan and 3D Realms forums. Even if you "cleaned up" the behaviour of the average poster you have years of shitposts people can take you hostage with.
Embittered Phallus, on 23 October 2020 - 01:50 AM, said:
I'd argue there are more creators now than there have ever been. So many of them are professionals now. I think people compare us to Doom too much, because 80% of their content output is fucking trash.
Embittered Phallus, on 23 October 2020 - 01:50 AM, said:
I disagree with this. It's not true at all. What is true is that liberal creatives tend to blacklist conservative creatives so that they don't have places to work.
Perro Seco, on 23 October 2020 - 03:36 AM, said:
This is not a platitude, it's objective fact. Nothing more will ever be released except in the case of some miracle or someone going rogue. Anyone who has dealt with Gearbox in this regard can confirm.
Perro Seco, on 23 October 2020 - 03:36 AM, said:
That's a shame, like I said, they had a large community of people.
jkas789, on 23 October 2020 - 06:00 AM, said:
Other ports have come and gone. People had the same bizarre reaction when BuildGDX debuted, and it coexists just fine.
jkas789, on 23 October 2020 - 06:00 AM, said:
Freespeech on this forum is already dead. He ain't referring to that F word, my man. This goes back to my point about "mainstreamifying" this site, you used to be able to say whatever you wanted and no one gave a fuck. Now every other post I have to use [REDACTED].
jkas789, on 23 October 2020 - 06:00 AM, said:
That's what he does. lol It's what makes him loveable, he can't resist a cheap shot.
#78 Posted 24 October 2020 - 05:32 AM
#79 Posted 24 October 2020 - 07:36 AM
Not so much an "I have ideas but no skills, so I need a bunch of people to create my vision" thread - which is the typical thing we get.
My input: if the project comes together, encourage potential players to find a method of getting duke3d.grp without paying randy for it. He doesn't deserve to benefit from this community's work.
This post has been edited by Forge: 24 October 2020 - 08:04 AM
#80 Posted 24 October 2020 - 08:18 AM
Embittered Phallus, on 24 October 2020 - 04:51 AM, said:
Those "quirks" hark back to a time when a number of folks were accusing me of being a communist spy or something; I suppose Mr. Ramos still thinks that given his saboteur comment. I was just playing along. I saw you taking part in discussions where a lot of these accusations were made, so I figured you were in the know. Will try to be less confusing next time.
To be honest, a mod should just remove/delete this entire sequence of posts starting with my original comment. I could edit out the part that hurt your feelz, but the harm's already done. I actually really enjoyed the idea of a community project, but I guess it won't happen anyway.
Many community projects happened in the past, and more will come in the future.
#81 Posted 24 October 2020 - 11:39 AM
#84 Posted 26 October 2020 - 04:17 PM
The equivalent of starting a project and posting an untextured AK-47 model as your only screenshot.
It's a fairly obviously idea in a general sense, but something specific? Really I think just having a good start on the Voxel pack and the AI Upscale pack in time for the 25th, and having a trailer to really show it off, would be plenty.
I'd love to see someone bang out another Christmas map.
#85 Posted 27 October 2020 - 11:38 AM
#86 Posted 27 October 2020 - 11:46 AM
This post has been edited by Mark: 27 October 2020 - 11:48 AM
#87 Posted 27 October 2020 - 12:53 PM
#88 Posted 27 October 2020 - 01:05 PM
This post has been edited by wnderer: 27 October 2020 - 01:38 PM
#89 Posted 27 October 2020 - 01:20 PM
#90 Posted 27 October 2020 - 05:12 PM
Jblade, on 27 October 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:
Great post.
People don't realize that completing a project actually takes a lot of time and effort, compared to the initial phase, and they loose interest by that point.
Also, on my experience a full TC usually requires multiple committed people working on it, or it will take many years to finish it.
Note that the Doom community release a lot of projects, but too much of it seems like experimental or joke WADs.