[Steve 64]

Scott Miller posted 15 min's saying this

I totally agree. I just really doubt Gearbox will want someone else to develop it. But outsourcing it would be the best move, for sure. Knowing Gearbox, I just think that's unrealistic.

https://twitter.com/...445829750214659

[The Kins]

Altered Reality, on 11 May 2022 - 09:51 AM, said:

2) It made Prey (Paul Schuytema's incarnation) look obsolete. All of a sudden, the revolution looked worse than the stopgap. This doomed the version of Prey that was being developed in 1998, which caused the aborted attempt with Corrinne Yu (more wasted money) the sale of the Prey IP to Bethesda (to try and recoup the losses caused by DNF) and its eventual destruction.

What killed Prey was that the game engine was tied at a fundamental level to Glide. When 3DFX died, they had to rewrite the entire engine with Direct3D in mind, and that car eventually ran out of road.

The bit where the majority of 3DR's attention was on Duke certainly didn't help, but the killing blow was coldly technical more than anything else.

[Altered Reality]

The Kins, on 11 May 2022 - 10:36 AM, said:

What killed Prey was that the game engine was tied at a fundamental level to Glide. When 3DFX died, they had to rewrite the entire engine with Direct3D in mind, and that car eventually ran out of road.

Wait... that doesn't fit the timeline. 3DFX was bought out by nVidia in December 2000. By then, not only had William Scarboro's engine been scrapped (in October 1998), but so was Corrinne Yu's attempt (in March 2000).
3DFX in October 1998 was still at the top with its Voodoo 2 card and would not release the first Voodoo 3 for another 2 months. Its main competitor, the RIVA TNT, was slower and lacked Glide compatibility for obvious reasons. At the same time, there was another game with an engine (originally) tied to Glide: Unreal. Later, Unreal switched to Direct3D just fine.

[hismasterplan]

I started to dive into this new content feeling like a little kid during Christmas, but then I thought - "wait, is this how I want to see this content?" I feel like I should wait until it is modded and completed, either by the community or even officially, otherwise I'm spoiling it for myself. I don't have a PC or know anything about getting this thing working so for players like me, is there even the slightest chance this will be released officially? Every time Randy is giving an interview about a compilation, he's focusing on something else while on camera - fiddling with a Rubik's cube in the 2017 meeting with the forum, fixing a PC on a live stream. He always seems like his heart isn't with Duke. Take Two and Gearbox or whoever shouldn't be surprised by this leak. They took too long, did not respect the franchise and never gave the people what they wanted.

[Futuretime23]

Kristian Joensen, on 11 May 2022 - 08:14 AM, said:

Something like this is never ever going to happen, but if 2 weeks ago I had gotten an email from Randy saying he wanted to release as many DNF related things as possible and asking me for suggestions, these are the builds I would advise him to release (If and to the extent they still exist):

1. The first experimental Quake 1 Engine build.
2. The last experimental Quake 1 Engine build before receiving the Quake 2 source code.
3. The first Quake 2 Engine build.
4. The last Quake 2 Engine build.
5. The first Unreal Engine build.
6. The last build before updating to the Unreal Tournament codebase.
7. The first build on the UT codebase.
8. A build as close to the 1999 screenshots as possible.
9. A build from as close to January 2000 as possible.
10. A build as close to June 2000 as possible.
11. A build as close to January 2001 as possible.
12. A build as close to E3 2001 as possible.
13. A build as close to January 2002 as possible.
14. A build as close to June 2002 as possible.
15. The infamous October 2002 build.
16. The first build using the new renderer.
17. A build as close to January 2003 as possible.
18. A build as close to June 2003 as possible.
19. A build as close to January 2004 as possible.
20. The last build on Havok.
21. The first build on Meqon.
22. A build after 6 months or so of using Meqon (So March 2005 or so).
23. A build as close to June 2005 as possible.
24. A build as close to January 2006 as possible.
25. A build as close to June 2006 as possible.
26. A build as close to August 2006(The famous departures) as possible.
27. A build as close to January 2007 as possible.
28. A build as close to June 2007 as possible.
29. A build as close as possible to the teaser trailer from 2007.
30. A before "cutting is shipping" build.
31. A after "cutting is shipping" build.
32. A build as close to what Jace Hall saw.
33. The last 3DR pre-Triptych build, presumably from May 2009.
34. The first Triptych build.
35. The last Triptych build before GBX took over.

The idea being to capture major events from the development of the game(Such as the 2002/2003 restart, the switch to Meqon physics, the mass departures of 2006 etc etc).and to track progress every 6 months or so.

Minor corrections, not October 2002, but December 2002.
Last build on Karma, not Havok. Though technically Karma is still used in final (most notably in multiplayer, from the looks of it)
Also keep in mind that Jace saw DNF in Dec 2007, the same month that infamous teaser was made. for all we know, that build and the Jace build are the one and the same or at least close enough to each other (one of the biggest indicators is the duke model, the glovehand has the helices located in the glove in the exact same place in both the teaser and the JH footage)
But, yeah, I'm down with this. I'd absolutely love it from a historical pov alone, much less a fan pov.

[Outtagum]

Shellshock, on 11 May 2022 - 04:29 AM, said:

Gearbox Software and 3D Realms were both acquired in 2021 by the same company (Embracer Group and Saber Interactive respectively, the latter of which is owned by the former).

It's 3D Realms in name only. Nobody from the original 3D Realms is there. Nobody who worked on DNF. Nobody who made the games we love. Nobody.

[Undead Zaxxy]

Outtagum, on 11 May 2022 - 05:36 PM, said:

It's 3D Realms in name only. Nobody from the original 3D Realms is there. Nobody who worked on DNF. Nobody who made the games we love. Nobody.

Isn't Joe Siegler still there?

[SirShanova]

Undead Zaxxy, on 11 May 2022 - 05:38 PM, said:

Isn't Joe Siegler still there?

Looks like it from his LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.../in/joesiegler/

[The Kins]

Altered Reality, on 11 May 2022 - 01:51 PM, said:

Wait... that doesn't fit the timeline. 3DFX was bought out by nVidia in December 2000. By then, not only had William Scarboro's engine been scrapped (in October 1998), but so was Corrinne Yu's attempt (in March 2000).
3DFX in October 1998 was still at the top with its Voodoo 2 card and would not release the first Voodoo 3 for another 2 months. Its main competitor, the RIVA TNT, was slower and lacked Glide compatibility for obvious reasons. At the same time, there was another game with an engine (originally) tied to Glide: Unreal. Later, Unreal switched to Direct3D just fine.

I'm going off the series history article that quotes several members of the original team.

Quote

In a 1999 post on the company's site, it mentioned dissatisfaction with the ‘98 version of Prey's tech. And with the company's priority shifting to Duke, much of the Prey team was moved to that project instead. That doesn’t mean it was completely abandoned, however. In 1998, following the shift to Duke, 3D Realms added Corrinne Yu to do engine work for Prey. But the company’s focus was on Duke Nukem.

What did Prey look like before the company’s shift to Duke? "Our in-house tools [at 3D Realms] were just amazing - the level editor and script environment really made you feel like you were sculpting a real world out of the dark void of cyberspace," Schuytema says. "The editor was in-engine and it was just so damn immersive!" But a problem with tech was about to hurt development, according to Schytema.

Timing and industry changes turned to trouble for Prey. It was mostly developed on the 3DFX card and the Glide API ("It was the hot shit API of the day," Schuytema says) but internal troubles at 3DFX hit just as the Prey team was ready to go all-in with Glide. Meanwhile, Microsoft was getting its Direct X API off the ground. The team moved away from Glide, and ended up going with Direct X instead.

"It was the right call, but boy did it cost us," Schuytema says. "That was when William Scarboro (Head Engineer) had to essentially rebuild the engine, so it was non or semi-functional for a long time. There was just too much work to do and at that time, it was essentially only William working on the engine code". Schuytema very much credits the death of the first version of Prey to the stalled progress of the Direct X switch. And in 1998, George and Scott "pulled the plug," according to Schuytema. "It was a painful decision, but they had to make it". Schuytema left in 1998 too, and Prey sat unfinished and unreleased. "When I left, the game looked sort of like a Lamborghini that was getting its engine rebuilt - it was gorgeous and amazing, but it had parts all over the place!," Schuytema says.

[Ninety-Six]

Duke64 Jr, on 11 May 2022 - 10:04 AM, said:

Scott Miller posted 15 min's saying this

I totally agree. I just really doubt Gearbox will want someone else to develop it. But outsourcing it would be the best move, for sure. Knowing Gearbox, I just think that's unrealistic.

https://twitter.com/...445829750214659

No, no Duke 3D remake.

[ReaperAA]

Kristian Joensen, on 11 May 2022 - 08:14 AM, said:

Something like this is never ever going to happen, but if 2 weeks ago I had gotten an email from Randy saying he wanted to release as many DNF related things as possible and asking me for suggestions, these are the builds I would advise him to release (If and to the extent they still exist):

1. The first experimental Quake 1 Engine build.
...
...
...
35. The last Triptych build before GBX took over.

The idea being to capture major events from the development of the game(Such as the 2002/2003 restart, the switch to Meqon physics, the mass departures of 2006 etc etc).and to track progress every 6 months or so.

Personally speaking, among the ones you mentioned, I would love to see the most developed builds of each iteration of the game so:

• The most advanced Quake 1 build (I don't expect much from this build, but still interested)
• The most advanced Quake 2 build before the switch to UE1/UT99 engine
• [The most important] The most advanced DNF2001/2002 era build. The "allegedly" (as per Fred's claim) 90% completed build before the decision to add Doom 3 style lighting (so late 2002 I guess)
• The last build on Karma
• A build before the employee departures in August 2006
• The teaser trailer/ Jace Hall visit build (December 2007)
• The last build before "cutting is shipping"
• Last 3DR build before Triptych took over
• Last Triptych build before Gearbox took over

[randir14]

Outtagum, on 11 May 2022 - 05:36 PM, said:

It's 3D Realms in name only. Nobody from the original 3D Realms is there. Nobody who worked on DNF. Nobody who made the games we love. Nobody.

It's pathetic how neo-3D Realms uses deceptive marketing slogans like "from the studio that brought you Duke Nukem and Shadow Warrior". Their CEO even calls himself the father of retro FPS games even though he was a kid when all those games came out back in the 90s.

[Malgon]

^Haha, for real?! What an odd thing to say!

[Shellshock]

randir14, on 12 May 2022 - 12:46 AM, said:

It's pathetic how neo-3D Realms uses deceptive marketing slogans like "from the studio that brought you Duke Nukem and Shadow Warrior". Their CEO even calls himself the father of retro FPS games even though he was a kid when all those games came out back in the 90s.

To be fair, this isn't as uncommon. When Rare was making Sea of Thieves, you'd often also hear about their legendary past with Goldeneye, Banjo-Kazooie and what not when at that point, pretty much everyone that was involved in those games had already left the company. They just do it for brand recognition.

[Kristian Joensen]

randir14, on 12 May 2022 - 12:46 AM, said:

It's pathetic how neo-3D Realms uses deceptive marketing slogans like "from the studio that brought you Duke Nukem and Shadow Warrior". Their CEO even calls himself the father of retro FPS games even though he was a kid when all those games came out back in the 90s.

No, retro FPSes are not the oldschool or classic shooters from 90s. Those are oldschool or classic, not retro. The retro ones are the modern FPSs inspired by those from the 90s and no matter what you think of Fred or the "new" 3DR, ROTT 2013 has a pretty decent claim to starting that wave.

[Scarred]

so those mirror one liners from 2011 DNF are in this version too. the " i'm hot " " I have a nice ass " " I know you want to touch " one's. But it only worked in those hallway mirrors in the hotel rooms.

Also the Keypad designs are like a straight copy too.

[HEAV~Enhance]

Hey-Pi-Ron, on 10 May 2022 - 08:32 AM, said:

as it was said here https://forums.duke4...post__p__370704

Oh yes, the summon command (sticks unreal logo to profile picture to reflect professional degree in subject) someone kick the duke logo into me. i'll change my picture later eventually though lol

You guys should run the game on the intended system! No patches on my end!!!

[brullov]

HEAV~Enhance, on 12 May 2022 - 02:11 AM, said:

Oh yes, the summon command (sticks unreal logo to profile picture to reflect professional degree in subject) someone kick the duke logo into me. i'll change my picture later eventually though lol

You guys should run the game on the intended system! No patches on my end!!!

Oh man, this XP UI gives so many warm feelings in my gut.

[Altered Reality]

HEAV~Enhance, on 12 May 2022 - 02:11 AM, said:

You guys should run the game on the intended system! No patches on my end!!!

Patches are necessary anyway to run the editor. Yes, I tried it on Windows XP.

brullov, on 12 May 2022 - 02:15 AM, said:

Oh man, this XP UI gives so many warm feelings in my gut.

Then you'd better reach a toilet fast so you won't puke all over the floor!

[Mr. Tibbs]

Just in terms of media coverage, Gerstmann talked about playing the leak and revising the 2011 release for about 25 minutes on his podcast and likewise ArsTechnica also went a step beyond most games writers and spent some time with the builds.



https://arstechnica....uild-from-2001/

[Scarred]

so apparently duke is looking for bombshell in the ghost town segament but gus is there n he just stands there with a sandworm like creature thing.

i wonder if in this version bombshell is still trying to kill duke. shame there is no bombshell model...

[HEAV~Enhance]

xMobilemux, on 09 May 2022 - 10:46 PM, said:

Thanks, chainsaw bugs me into a lock and can't switch weapons.

press "Tab" or "F12" to pull up the console then type "Throwweapon".
you can also try "set input T throwweapon"
so by pressing T you throw the weapon you hold, mainly useful if you get weapon locked. lol

[Benjamin Foley]

I was going through the old trailers and screenshots. Its funny how it all comes together and you can see where it all evolved from now that this build is out there.

Scarred, on 12 May 2022 - 04:00 AM, said:

so apparently duke is looking for bombshell in the ghost town segament but gus is there n he just stands there with a sandworm like creature thing.

i wonder if in this version bombshell is still trying to kill duke. shame there is no bombshell model...

So close...

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[Doom64hunter]

Kristian Joensen, on 12 May 2022 - 01:58 AM, said:

No, retro FPSes are not the oldschool or classic shooters from 90s. Those are oldschool or classic, not retro. The retro ones are the modern FPSs inspired by those from the 90s and no matter what you think of Fred or the "new" 3DR, ROTT 2013 has a pretty decent claim to starting that wave.

But since ROTT 2013 was only started because Duke Reloaded was canned, which only became a thing because DNF was picked up by Gearbox, this means that we can reasonably claim that DNF started the wave of modern retro FPS games.

In the end, it all loops back to Duke.

Scarred, on 12 May 2022 - 04:00 AM, said:

so apparently duke is looking for bombshell in the ghost town segament but gus is there n he just stands there with a sandworm like creature thing.

i wonder if in this version bombshell is still trying to kill duke. shame there is no bombshell model...

I have a theory that the stripper in the Slick Willy level that leads you into a trap was supposed to be Bombshell.
Graves even mentions that she contacted Duke in his cave before that scene, so she definitely seems to be a major character.

I might just be talking out of my ass though.

[OpenMaw]

Given what we've got here, I have to call B.S. on that claim from Scott. At least at this stage. Maybe when they were working with more Next-Gen assets in the mid 00s, like from 2004 forward, but at this time? They seemed to be well on their way to a finished product. It's all about that momentum and feature creep.

And, yeah, i'm going to put that at George's feet. He couldn't resist the new shiny's, even though he had a winner, and had already gone through this with Duke Nukem 3D. Technically inferior to Quake's technology, but far and away more personality. That is what DNF would have been to the Doom 3's and Half-Life 2's.

[Ninety-Six]

OpenMaw, on 12 May 2022 - 05:58 AM, said:

And, yeah, i'm going to put that at George's feet. He couldn't resist the new shiny's, even though he had a winner, and had already gone through this with Duke Nukem 3D. Technically inferior to Quake's technology, but far and away more personality. That is what DNF would have been to the Doom 3's and Half-Life 2's.

I don't think that was in doubt. It really looks like this version could have made it to the end.

[wiedersnoozed]

Doom64hunter, on 12 May 2022 - 05:12 AM, said:

I have a theory that the stripper in the Slick Willy level that leads you into a trap was supposed to be Bombshell.

Correct.

[Benjamin Foley]

wiedersnoozed, on 12 May 2022 - 08:23 AM, said:

Correct.

What's the risk for filling in the gaps now?? What was added 6-12 months down the line?

[JohnBlade]

Btw what do we now need to make this newly leaked build to something that is playable from start to finish? Is somebody working on it? What can I do to help finish it?

I did play the 2001 leak and it feels on similar level like the Half-Life 2 leak from years back...

[necroslut]

JohnBlade, on 12 May 2022 - 08:45 AM, said:

I did play the 2001 leak and it feels on similar level like the Half-Life 2 leak from years back...

I think it feels a lot more polished gameplay-wise than the Half-Life 2 leak.