[Jimmy]

randir14, on 12 May 2022 - 12:46 AM, said:

It's pathetic how neo-3D Realms uses deceptive marketing slogans like "from the studio that brought you Duke Nukem and Shadow Warrior". Their CEO even calls himself the father of retro FPS games even though he was a kid when all those games came out back in the 90s.

Fred is a natural grifter.

Kristian Joensen, on 12 May 2022 - 01:58 AM, said:

No, retro FPSes are not the oldschool or classic shooters from 90s. Those are oldschool or classic, not retro. The retro ones are the modern FPSs inspired by those from the 90s and no matter what you think of Fred or the "new" 3DR, ROTT 2013 has a pretty decent claim to starting that wave.

Simp.

OpenMaw, on 12 May 2022 - 05:58 AM, said:

Given what we've got here, I have to call B.S. on that claim from Scott. At least at this stage. Maybe when they were working with more Next-Gen assets in the mid 00s, like from 2004 forward, but at this time? They seemed to be well on their way to a finished product. It's all about that momentum and feature creep.

And, yeah, i'm going to put that at George's feet. He couldn't resist the new shiny's, even though he had a winner, and had already gone through this with Duke Nukem 3D. Technically inferior to Quake's technology, but far and away more personality. That is what DNF would have been to the Doom 3's and Half-Life 2's.

I think they could have done it had the team just been bigger. If more work was getting done, even if more and more new shiny things pop up, the closer you get to any finish line, the closer you get to wrapping up the larger idea. There just were never enough people to finish the game. Remember when Gearbox delayed? That was the first time anyone ever said, and meant, "Hey if we just got a few more guys working on this..." If it hadn't been for Piranha DNF wouldn't have even had multiplayer.

[JohnBlade]

necroslut, on 12 May 2022 - 08:55 AM, said:

I think it feels a lot more polished gameplay-wise than the Half-Life 2 leak.

There was a "Russian" improved version of it. They actually sold it at stores it was fairly finished.

This leak varies - the first 3 levels are fine but then it's really empty...

Who played all of it? Which levels are really, really finished? I spent like 5 hours inside it trying to load various levels...

[Steve 64]

Ninety-Six, on 11 May 2022 - 07:26 PM, said:

No, no Duke 3D remake.

I love Duke 3D but I'm SICK N TIRED OF DUKE 3D We want anew Duke Nukem game ReReleases of Time to Kill land of babes and zero hour with online support, come on Gearbox pull a konami they are bringing TMNT collection with online support on the 4 TMNT Games.

[MusicallyInspired]

Kristian Joensen, on 12 May 2022 - 01:58 AM, said:

No, retro FPSes are not the oldschool or classic shooters from 90s. Those are oldschool or classic, not retro. The retro ones are the modern FPSs inspired by those from the 90s and no matter what you think of Fred or the "new" 3DR, ROTT 2013 has a pretty decent claim to starting that wave.

Nah, I'd give that to Bulletstorm and SS3.

[Ninety-Six]

Duke64 Jr, on 12 May 2022 - 12:23 PM, said:

I love Duke 3D but I'm SICK N TIRED OF DUKE 3D

It's not even that, for me. It's that I don't trust anyone, Gearbox or otherwise, to make a DN3D remake that isn't an insult. If it isn't Gearbox's hack job it'll be someone else following GBX's hacky orders. Especially in the modern day.


Besides, I really don't think DN3D needs it. Outside of bug fixes and stability improvements, Duke 3D is perfectly great as it is. We can talk about minor gripes with some levels or enemy designs, but those are ultimately not worth a whole remake.

In my opinion, all Duke 3D needs is an all-in-one package containing every official episode with maybe some minor graphical improvements, like what Quake and Doom have right now (and what World Tour tried to do but failed and then charged double the price for). It really doesn't need a remake.

Duke64 Jr, on 12 May 2022 - 12:23 PM, said:

ReReleases of Time to Kill land of babes and zero hour with online support

Agreed completely with this, though. Duke's back-catalogue needs to stop being ignored.

[NY00123]

Let me finally add my short reply.

For multiple obvious reasons, it'd be better if something like this could be done in a more official and legitimate matter. I'm also aware of this potential bringing bad memories to some people.
On the other hand, it looks like there's currently great community interest, a subset of it probably getting relived after years of absence. A new Discord was created especially for discussion of this build from what I saw. The Duke4.net Discord also has a separate channel for DNF now.

[ryche]

If they just would just patch up World Tour it wouldn’t be so bad. My biggest complaint with it is I’m unable to sustain any co-op matches. Granted my friends don’t have a PC with it so we’ve tried Xbox and Switch. Both versions tend to work at first then something happens, crashes us out and we are no longer able to get it to work. I used to have a lot of fun with co-op back in the DOS days.

[The Kins]

ryche, on 12 May 2022 - 05:22 PM, said:

If they just would just patch up World Tour it wouldn’t be so bad.

My understanding is that Nerve Software is no longer an operating entity, which likely complicates matters.

[Shellshock]

Ninety-Six, on 12 May 2022 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's not even that, for me. It's that I don't trust anyone, Gearbox or otherwise, to make a DN3D remake that isn't an insult. If it isn't Gearbox's hack job it'll be someone else following GBX's hacky orders. Especially in the modern day.


Besides, I really don't think DN3D needs it. Outside of bug fixes and stability improvements, Duke 3D is perfectly great as it is. We can talk about minor gripes with some levels or enemy designs, but those are ultimately not worth a whole remake.

In my opinion, all Duke 3D needs is an all-in-one package containing every official episode with maybe some minor graphical improvements, like what Quake and Doom have right now (and what World Tour tried to do but failed and then charged double the price for). It really doesn't need a remake.



Agreed completely with this, though. Duke's back-catalogue needs to stop being ignored.

There already was the Megaton Edition which was pretty much that until it was removed with the release of the World Tour edition.

[Steve 64]

Shellshock, on 13 May 2022 - 06:13 AM, said:

There already was the Megaton Edition which was pretty much that until it was removed with the release of the World Tour edition.

Next year will be it 10 year birthday by the way, I can't believe it about to turn 10 makes me feel so old, it was a blast testing out the Lifes a beach Duke Out in Dc and that crappy winter eps, I still can't believe that people still want it back on steam and such I'm greatful that the want it back cause they know it better then uhh World Tour.

[necroslut]

Shellshock, on 13 May 2022 - 06:13 AM, said:

There already was the Megaton Edition which was pretty much that until it was removed with the release of the World Tour edition.

Megaton Edition honestly wasn't that good either. The "Hail To The King Edition" by Voidpoint, terrible name aside, could probably have been that definitive release if it only had actually gotten to the point of release, but Megaton Edition was basically as much of a missed opportunity as World Tour was.

[Jimmy]

Ninety-Six, on 12 May 2022 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's not even that, for me. It's that I don't trust anyone, Gearbox or otherwise, to make a DN3D remake that isn't an insult. If it isn't Gearbox's hack job it'll be someone else following GBX's hacky orders. Especially in the modern day.


Besides, I really don't think DN3D needs it. Outside of bug fixes and stability improvements, Duke 3D is perfectly great as it is. We can talk about minor gripes with some levels or enemy designs, but those are ultimately not worth a whole remake.

In my opinion, all Duke 3D needs is an all-in-one package containing every official episode with maybe some minor graphical improvements, like what Quake and Doom have right now (and what World Tour tried to do but failed and then charged double the price for). It really doesn't need a remake.

If anything, what World Tour should have been maybe, is you put together a team of Duke's best indie devs. You come up with a design document. Basically, how can we make this game sexier. Keep your remake on Build. Add dynamic lights that look more like something from the 90s (Powerslave/Saturn Duke) using them in conjunction with sector shading, a good fusion. Expand and beautify the maps, a map like Hollywood Holocaust is arguably perfect, but there are many that could do with some improvements. Expand the arsenal and enemies. Implement voxels, tasteful ROR and translucent water. See what you could implement from beta builds and early design documents. Some of the levels looked a little better before they started compensating for framerate issues on lower end machines. Etc etc etc. It could be done. Just take great care to keep the spirit of the original game. Make the myth of the 1.7 edition real. That's what people really want. A full fledged Duke3D remake in UE5 would never be completed. You might get a close approximation of Episode 1 ala Serious Duke. But the amount of work it would take to remake it? Never gonna happen. You'll get a partial remake of episodic content that never gets completed, or you'll get a lackluster "reimagining" that covers a little bit of familiar ground but then goes off into its own thing.

[necroslut]

I don't think remakes are, as popular as they are in theory, a great concept. First of all, they're a lot of work, most likely as much or even more than just making a new game or spiritual successor. Secondly, to remake an old game like Duke 3D with modern graphics is a lot harder to pull of than it sounds. A lot of elements, including much of the level design, won't really work once disconnected from the original game, it's art style and technical level.
In the end you'll just spend a ton of time and money for something that'll be, at best, a prettier but weaker clone of the original. Better just make a new game.

[Undead Zaxxy]

necroslut, on 13 May 2022 - 09:06 AM, said:

I don't think remakes are, as popular as they are in theory, a great concept. First of all, they're a lot of work, most likely as much or even more than just making a new game or spiritual successor. Secondly, to remake an old game like Duke 3D with modern graphics is a lot harder to pull of than it sounds. A lot of elements, including much of the level design, won't really work once disconnected from the original game, it's art style and technical level.
In the end you'll just spend a ton of time and money for something that'll be, at best, a prettier but weaker clone of the original. Better just make a new game.

The thing is though you don't remake old FPS games, you remaster and expand them. World Tour could have done that but it wasn't a competent release even if I do get a second of "oh, that lighting would be nice" when I launch Raze to play the new episode. You just can't put out something that limited and bad as the de facto official source port.

[Shellshock]

Wanted to give DNF 2011 another shot after all that positive chatter here but whenever I boot up the game now to continue my save from earlier today the mouse cursor gets stuck in the top left corner of the screen. Deleted config files etc. nothing works. Guess some things just are not meant to be.

[Steve 64]

necroslut, on 13 May 2022 - 08:58 AM, said:

Megaton Edition honestly wasn't that good either. The "Hail To The King Edition" by Voidpoint, terrible name aside, could probably have been that definitive release if it only had actually gotten to the point of release, but Megaton Edition was basically as much of a missed opportunity as World Tour was.

The Dev's of Megaton could have done better with Megaton Edition but they choose not to which is sad, if they were to pull a 100 percent when it came out and listen to the testers and such it would have been alot better then what we got, I don't know why the devs were pulling a 1 percent took like 9 updates for the online mutiplayer to work.

[Radar]

I'm a purist in the sense that I think modern re-releases should be native ports of exactly what was released in the original game, basically a chocolate version of it. With a lot of re-releases, too many features get piled on that are half-baked and some features that the game was originally advertised and sold with, like demo recording and multiplayer, perform worse now than they did in 1996. I wouldn't even mind if it still used, albeit a Windows-native, version of SETUP.EXE for configuring the game. It worked in '96, it'll work now. The modified date on my copy of DUKE3D.GRP is December 11, 1996 11:50:00 AM and I would expect to see that in a retail version as well.

[Jimmy]

Duke64 Jr, on 13 May 2022 - 12:39 PM, said:

The Dev's of Megaton could have done better with Megaton Edition but they choose not to which is sad, if they were to pull a 100 percent when it came out and listen to the testers and such it would have been alot better then what we got, I don't know why the devs were pulling a 1 percent took like 9 updates for the online mutiplayer to work.

Nah. This ain't it chief. They did a great job considering how much they were being paid. The fact is 3DR was being cheap. There was like one dude working on it. (Nice guy who cared about the product, too.)

[NNC]

Jimmy, on 13 May 2022 - 08:58 AM, said:

If anything, what World Tour should have been maybe, is you put together a team of Duke's best indie devs. You come up with a design document. Basically, how can we make this game sexier. Keep your remake on Build. Add dynamic lights that look more like something from the 90s (Powerslave/Saturn Duke) using them in conjunction with sector shading, a good fusion. Expand and beautify the maps, a map like Hollywood Holocaust is arguably perfect, but there are many that could do with some improvements. Expand the arsenal and enemies. Implement voxels, tasteful ROR and translucent water. See what you could implement from beta builds and early design documents. Some of the levels looked a little better before they started compensating for framerate issues on lower end machines. Etc etc etc. It could be done. Just take great care to keep the spirit of the original game. Make the myth of the 1.7 edition real. That's what people really want. A full fledged Duke3D remake in UE5 would never be completed. You might get a close approximation of Episode 1 ala Serious Duke. But the amount of work it would take to remake it? Never gonna happen. You'll get a partial remake of episodic content that never gets completed, or you'll get a lackluster "reimagining" that covers a little bit of familiar ground but then goes off into its own thing.

Fucking this.

[NNC]

Undead Zaxxy, on 13 May 2022 - 09:18 AM, said:

The thing is though you don't remake old FPS games, you remaster and expand them. World Tour could have done that but it wasn't a competent release even if I do get a second of "oh, that lighting would be nice" when I launch Raze to play the new episode. You just can't put out something that limited and bad as the de facto official source port.

In the defense of World Tour, I think the definitive release tag was an afterthought, and was openly not the selling point of the game. Randy said they asked the price for the new episode only. Unfortunately people wanted a definitive edition instead, and attacked the release, which basically means no further touches are expected on the game. Our only hope left is the release of the betas, and then, modders can improve the levels themselves.

[ryche]

The Kins, on 13 May 2022 - 03:41 AM, said:

My understanding is that Nerve Software is no longer an operating entity, which likely complicates matters.

Damn. And of course Gearbox wouldn’t take it on themselves to patch up.

[TerminX]

Jimmy, on 13 May 2022 - 08:58 AM, said:

Make the myth of the 1.7 edition real.

Hey, it was real. They made tons of voxels for it. 1.5 even had ROR in it that nobody knew about, which is actually missing from 1.4. It just didn't happen because everyone doing Duke stuff moved on to either DNF or Shadow Warrior, if they didn't leave the company altogether.

[Steve 64]

Jimmy, on 13 May 2022 - 08:03 PM, said:

Nah. This ain't it chief. They did a great job considering how much they were being paid. The fact is 3DR was being cheap. There was like one dude working on it. (Nice guy who cared about the product, too.)

I'm not saying it fully bad it does have good things in it like weapon switching speed add on's Users Maps and a little bit of mod support, when you say 3DR being cheap are you saying they had a hand in this project?

[JohnBlade]

TerminX, on 13 May 2022 - 11:16 PM, said:

Hey, it was real. They made tons of voxels for it. 1.5 even had ROR in it that nobody knew about, which is actually missing from 1.4. It just didn't happen because everyone doing Duke stuff moved on to either DNF or Shadow Warrior, if they didn't leave the company altogether.

What was the version 1.7 about? Was it meant as grounds for early build of DNF?

[Altered Reality]

TerminX, on 13 May 2022 - 11:16 PM, said:

Hey, it was real. They made tons of voxels for it. 1.5 even had ROR in it that nobody knew about, which is actually missing from 1.4. It just didn't happen because everyone doing Duke stuff moved on to either DNF or Shadow Warrior, if they didn't leave the company altogether.

These voxels? http://duke4ever.alt...eptart1996.html

[Ninety-Six]

The Watchtower, on 13 May 2022 - 10:38 PM, said:

In the defense of World Tour, I think the definitive release tag was an afterthought, and was openly not the selling point of the game. Randy said they asked the price for the new episode only. Unfortunately people wanted a definitive edition instead, and attacked the release

Well, that, plus being even buggier and less stable than the original release, having absurdly high system requirements, charging $20 for only 8 levels (double what Megaton charged for far less content), shattering the moddability, having inexcusable sound quality issues on launch....

[Radar]

TerminX, on 13 May 2022 - 11:16 PM, said:

Hey, it was real. They made tons of voxels for it. 1.5 even had ROR in it that nobody knew about, which is actually missing from 1.4. It just didn't happen because everyone doing Duke stuff moved on to either DNF or Shadow Warrior, if they didn't leave the company altogether.

Is there any indication that it was actually refered to as "1.7" though? That it had an actual release plan rather than just work done while killing time at the studio? I think that's the myth part.

[Chewbarta]

Ninety-Six, on 12 May 2022 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's not even that, for me. It's that I don't trust anyone, Gearbox or otherwise, to make a DN3D remake that isn't an insult. If it isn't Gearbox's hack job it'll be someone else following GBX's hacky orders. Especially in the modern day.


Besides, I really don't think DN3D needs it. Outside of bug fixes and stability improvements, Duke 3D is perfectly great as it is. We can talk about minor gripes with some levels or enemy designs, but those are ultimately not worth a whole remake.

In my opinion, all Duke 3D needs is an all-in-one package containing every official episode with maybe some minor graphical improvements, like what Quake and Doom have right now (and what World Tour tried to do but failed and then charged double the price for). It really doesn't need a remake.



Agreed completely with this, though. Duke's back-catalogue needs to stop being ignored.

This is the Ryle of remake that Duke 3D needs I my opinion.
https://steamcommuni.../?id=1432570016

The first level of that mod melds three (?) different levels together so seamlessly. It relays on the Serious Sam gameplay (aka more arena fights) but it expands on areas giving them more depth. That legitimately is the best interpretation of a modern Duke3D.
But this is mostly because I don’t have as much reverence for the older style. I find it pretty difficult to get into a 90s shooter and have always felt that Duke3D revels in a much larger scope.

[Ninety-Six]

Chewbarta, on 14 May 2022 - 10:03 AM, said:

The first level of that mod melds three (?) different levels together

Not really. It's still Hollywood Holocaust, with sections like the Duke Burger building being fabricated wholecloth and having nothing in common with the actual Duke Burger level.

[hiczok]

This makes me wish we got the last 2002 build.
And to be honest - 2003 doom3 build looks great too but that late 2002 build IS IT