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[RELEASE] Hollywood Holocaust Rethinked

User is offline   Never Forgotten 

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#61

View PostMark., on 29 August 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Just as a quick side project by myself, I am going to spend a few afternoons to see how much I can do with modding the Red Light District map using existing HHR assets only. It won't be as extensive as the HH map but for some reason I can't take a break after releasing our project. We'll see what I can do by the weekend. I'll post it here on duke4 whether its done or not. I can't spend a lot of time on it. Too many other projects backed up.


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This post has been edited by Never Forgotten: 29 August 2017 - 06:25 PM

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User is offline   Never Forgotten 

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#62

I have a question. Would it be okay with you guys if I borrowed your water texture? I really like the way it looks, and I think it'd go great in Atomic Crisis. I'd give credit.

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User is offline   PsychoGoatee 

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#63

Fun stuff, well done all! Lot of charm and fun details to this remake, Duke-tastic.
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User is offline   brullov 

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#64

I like it a lot, however I do not like HRP mod. The atmosphere is great, I felt like a child who is playing Duke first time. Already shared with russian community.

Links: t vk p yt
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User is offline   Mark. 

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#65

Thanks for spreading the word.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#66

I'm happy that people are having fun with the mod. We tried to add some more gameplay beyond the normal limits of HH. Beyond that, we tried to make it as much fun as we remember some sections of the rest of Duke being. Silly asides, one-liners, etc. Duke should be a lot of fun.

The other point of the mod is to show what is possible with Polymer beyond just the HRP. We'd like to get people thinking of other ways that they can make cool stuff with Polymer, and hopefully inspire a few others to make their own high-res mods.

I know about the trailer. It's not quite Pixar quality. It could have been a lot more polished, but then it would be a project in and of itself and would have stretched us up to the 2 year mark.
About the DEagle, I always loved the idea of it. We even thought at one point of putting it in the mod. If we'd had a larger team, then it would have replaced the pistol.

I'm pretty sure Mark commented on the scale at some point. I think the conversation went like this:

Mark: You know, that pistol is a bit out of scale.

TM: But GOLDEN DESERT EAGLE Mark!

Mark: Um, OK. Oh, and you know that at the height they are at, the Moon is at completly the wrong scale. At that orbit it would be...

TM: But Mark, GOLDEN DESERT EAGLE!!!!

Mark: (sweet baby Jesus) Yeah, *sigh* whatever.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 31 August 2017 - 02:42 AM

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User is offline   oasiz 

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#67

Finished this yesterday, nice stuff !

I did enjoy some of the blending & more clever use of models and geometry, like that door banging against a fallen enemy.
Also plus points for some of the level extensions that you put in.

However I really felt like it could have used some more custom code as every NPC felt like it was just using usual FEM code, not even bothering to interrupt speech after they've been killed (probably map triggered instead of code).
Stuff like the lights got dropped from the arcade, quake/wall explosion stuff was cut when entering the main hell, etc.. Overall it cut quite a bit from the original experience.
Thankfully it did provide quite a bit of new stuff in the mix to compensate.

I really have to critique the art since it was very clashing most of the time and parts of the interior felt off.
Some areas felt really like an usual fanmade map in some more modern engine with it's assets being used as drop-in replacements.

However, thanks for making this !
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User is offline   Mark. 

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#68

When I first started the mapping I removed all sector based lighting and the arcade lighting because my plans were to use High Treason's "Confetti" mod to add those back in for use with Polymer lights. Then team members disappeared and the decision was made cut back by not doing any con coding. By then, the new layout of the arcade was in and I didn't feel the sector lighting could be easily put back in. And then in the last few months of the mod we decided to use con coding so that we could make use of Mblackwells light hack mod to help frame rate. So that opened up the door for other minor con coding that my noob skills could handle. But we were getting tired and itching for a release so going back to implement confetti effects in code and mapping was not done.

You guessed right. NPC talk was map triggered, not coded. Hence the issue you mentioned.

Our original intent with the cinema was to present a very fancy, modern place with a touch of slum in it since the aliens took it over a short time ago. But it was tough to find that balance. I'll take the blame/credit for that since I mapped it. B)

oasiz said: " Some areas felt really like an usual fanmade map in some more modern engine with it's assets being used as drop-in replacements."
That was actually how the mod started out. It was to be only the original map with Polymer NG quality replacements for the existing sprites and models. Then I joined the project and convinced them to expand the map. That decision was a curse and a blessing. It really extended the time frame for the mod.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 31 August 2017 - 05:24 AM

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User is offline   Mark. 

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#69

I'm curious. Has anyone found all 10 secrets yet?
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User is offline   oasiz 

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#70

Thanks for the explanation!
I still appreciate the effort and It's still very ambitious for being a Duke project on an area that hasn't really been done before like this.
"Radical changes" are understandable after all, as this is supposed to be a new spin on the whole level :)

Hopefully this will inspire other similar efforts !
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#71

Shoot I still need to play this.

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#72

I feel guilty for not playing this yet, but at least I have downloaded it. Those shots look amazing! You guys have truly outdone yourselves from what I have seen. The shots make it obvious the kind of work that went into the modeling and mapping, but what I can't tell is the coding. Did the enemies and effects get any code overhauls, or is this basically an HRP kind of treatment?
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User is offline   Mark. 

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#73

The code was just for little effects and gimmicks. Enemy AI is the same. Thanks for the compliments. Those are always welcome. ;)
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User is offline   Mark. 

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#74

Here you go guys. The Red Light District map for HHR.

As I promised, I spent only a few afternoons this week to see what I could come up with before I move on to my next major project. After spending so much time on HHR it seems I just don't have the will to do another map properly. That plus trying to do this without making many more required models and textures is making this look too much like the first map. So I guess this is just a teaser. Its loaded with a lot of half done areas with half assed ideas. :P But I said I would release what I have by the weekend. Because it was heavily W.I.P. try not to judge it too harshly. This was just a fun experiment for a few days for me.

Attached File(s)



This post has been edited by Mark.: 01 September 2017 - 09:12 AM

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User is offline   Never Forgotten 

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#75

View PostMark., on 01 September 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

Here you go guys. The Red Light District map for HHR.

As I promised, I spent only a few afternoons this week to see what I could come up with before I move on to my next major project. After spending so much time on HHR it seems I just don't have the will to do another map properly. That plus trying to do this without making many more required models and textures is making this look too much like the first map. So I guess this is just a teaser. Its loaded with a lot of half done areas with half assed ideas. :P But I said I would release what I have by the weekend. Because it was heavily W.I.P. try not to judge it too harshly. This was just a fun experiment for a few days for me.



Very well done. I like that you made it look more like an actual city. The added babes were well placed, and the changes made to the inside of the buildings were well done. :dukeaffirmative:

Who Loves Ya Baby?

Never Forgotten/Focus Gaming
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#76

View PostMark., on 01 September 2017 - 03:42 AM, said:

The code was just for little effects and gimmicks. Enemy AI is the same.


Do the models have any unused animations, or are they just the basic animations used by the vanilla game?
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#77

Vanilla for the monsters.

It wound up with basically a team of two. If we'd expanded the scope any more, we'd be looking at a DNF style development experience.

We did discuss getting a con coder on board. We both decided that would lead to feature creep and lengthened development time.

After nearly two years, Mark had had enough and I have other projects to get going on, so we decided not to go down that route.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 01 September 2017 - 12:53 PM

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User is offline   Mark. 

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#78

View PostNever Forgotten, on 01 September 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Very well done. I like that you made it look more like an actual city. The added babes were well placed, and the changes made to the inside of the buildings were well done. :dukeaffirmative:


Thanks. I'm not a fast mapper. I'm actually surprised I was able to get that much done in roughly 12-14 hours over 3 days.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#79

View PostTea Monster, on 01 September 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Vanilla for the monsters.

It wound up with basically a team of two. If we'd expanded the scope any more, we'd be looking at a DNF style development experience.

We did discuss getting a con coder on board. We both decided that would lead to feature creep and lengthened development time.

After nearly two years, Mark had had enough and I have other projects to get going on, so we decided not to go down that route.


You made the right decision given the situation. If you guys do decide to come back to this and make an update or sequel (E1L2?), then adding new animations to go with the new enemy models would be a great addition, imo. One thing that's very de-motivating as a coder when working on any Duke project, but especially with models, is being hobbled by the same old limited enemy animations (one walk cycle, one attack, one death animation, and usually one additional animation). Having different walking and running animations, multiple stun animations, multiple deaths, attacks, etc. would make much more sophisticated and immersive enemies possible.

Anyway, I'm not trying to derail the discussion -- I am going to play this soon and I'm looking forward to it.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#80

You were the guy I was going to contact as we'd worked before on other things. We both figured you were kind of busy with Duke Forces though. Looking back, I wish we had.

Mark did a preliminary treatment on E1L2, but neither of us want to spend another year or so doing this. As I said, I've got other projects I'm currently involved in now, so I won't be coming back to this.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#81

View PostTea Monster, on 02 September 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

You were the guy I was going to contact as we'd worked before on other things. We both figured you were kind of busy with Duke Forces though. Looking back, I wish we had.


Meh, I haven't had much desire to mod Duke lately -- my waves of inspiration seem to be fewer and farther between these days. I just played the level, and what you guys were able to accomplish with the little help that you had is very impressive. It looks like you even made animations for specific cutscenes and got new voice samples for Duke (or at least they were ones I have never heard).

View PostTea Monster, on 02 September 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

Mark did a preliminary treatment on E1L2, but neither of us want to spend another year or so doing this. As I said, I've got other projects I'm currently involved in now, so I won't be coming back to this.


That's kind of sad, but it's good that you got it released, so it didn't get added to a pile of unreleased Duke projects.

_________________

My general impression: The overall look and atmosphere is great, especially the first impression when walking through the level. That's really the most important thing, since this isn't a gameplay or effects mod. I have many nitpicks / criticisms, but I don't want to list them, because it would make my post seem too negative. Also, I'm pretty sure you guys are already aware of the shortcomings.
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User is offline   Mark. 

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#82

What do you mean? The mod was perfection. :P ( yes we are aware )

Finally, someone mentioned the new, never before heard Duke voice clips. I guess we found somebody so good that most players just assumed it was JSJ and didn't say anything.

Hey, feel free to PM with any of your critiques. I want to learn from mistakes if its something I wasn't aware of already.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 02 September 2017 - 12:52 PM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#83

I'd like to hear your impressions if you don't mind PMing me.

Ooops, didn't see your post Mark.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 02 September 2017 - 01:51 PM

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User is offline   Hank 

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#84

View PostMark., on 31 August 2017 - 05:28 AM, said:

I'm curious. Has anyone found all 10 secrets yet?

I found only 8.
Finished the map though. :P
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One should not compare games, but, This excellent Boss; while thinking back on WT
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Spoiler


Since I can't do any better, let's just say: - Thanks for your hard work.

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 02 September 2017 - 02:01 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#85

Ok I'll just mention some nitpicks real quick. Most of the doors should open about 2X faster -- I actually got squished on a swing door because I was impatient waiting for it to open and tried to squeeze through. Some of the npc voice clips are too long, seem out of place, and some play each time you get near instead of just once. The civilians are statues, which seems weird when the overall graphical quality is so high -- it's an uncanny valley thing. It's fine in 8-bit to have civilians like that but not so much here. It seems weirder when they are in areas that have monsters, since they should be running and screaming. Proportions on the new liztroop seemed a bit off; with the big packs on his hips and the way he walked I felt like I was shooting at koopas. The pigcop seems to die facing 180 from where he should? (I'll have to check that again). The new battlelord firing animation just shakes the gun rather than having the barrel rotate.

Overall quite enjoyable, with high quality assets and a map that was faithful to the original level layout with nice new detailing and additions. Cutscenes, voicework and presentation also all very good.
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User is offline   Mark. 

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#86

Do you recall which NPC voice sounded more than once? IIRC all but the "valley girl" in one of the party rooms was triggered by a a tagged sector with 10,000 plus the sound number. They can only play once.

You're not the only with with the door issue. Testers were occasionally getting squashed and killed by the doors so I slowed them down. And then shortly before release Eduke32 made a change to door behavior that took away that killdoor problem but introduced another glitch that causes them not to open if you happen to be right up against it. Even if it opens away from you. With all the other rush job stuff to do I never went back and readjusted all the door speeds.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 02 September 2017 - 03:00 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#87

I definitely ran into the doors not opening problem. They were a bit slow too.

One thing I noticed was the lack of music, to my dismay. :( However, I see that that was mentioned in the description because there were so many sounds going on in the background, which was a fine explanation. However, while actually playing the game I had to double check a couple times to make sure my sound was still working as the level was completely silent in a couple areas. One part for sure like that was the apartment behind the window next to the RPG secret at the beginning of the game (the one underneath the 'Innocent?' sign). There was another moment inside the theater lobby as well. I think music would have been really neat here and it was a bit of a shame that there was nothing to back up what was going on. However, I loved the design and enhancements. The Barney Fife joke cracked me up lol. I only found 5 secrets, though. Need to find the others.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
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User is offline   NUKEMDAVE 

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#88

I played through the map with the ambient light level adjusted as low as it would go. I think it made everything look much better, but that's just my personal preference.

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I was also curious to see the other maps with these new models:

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#89

Yes, as far as I'm concerned I'm replacing the models in the Polymer HRP with these they are simply fantastic. A perfect middle ground between the extreme redesign and realism of DNF and the traditional designs and colours of Duke3D. Fantastic work, Tea Monster. I think the Enforcer is my favourite. Pig Cop is a close second.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
new! It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 02 September 2017 - 08:11 PM

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User is offline   Mark. 

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#90

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 02 September 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

I definitely ran into the doors not opening problem. They were a bit slow too.

One thing I noticed was the lack of music, to my dismay. :( However, I see that that was mentioned in the description because there were so many sounds going on in the background, which was a fine explanation. However, while actually playing the game I had to double check a couple times to make sure my sound was still working as the level was completely silent in a couple areas. One part for sure like that was the apartment behind the window next to the RPG secret at the beginning of the game (the one underneath the 'Innocent?' sign). There was another moment inside the theater lobby as well. I think music would have been really neat here and it was a bit of a shame that there was nothing to back up what was going on. However, I loved the design and enhancements. The Barney Fife joke cracked me up lol. I only found 5 secrets, though. Need to find the others.

I included a quiet backround music track. Turn on music from the game menu. I wondered if I should leave Barney Fife in or not. The mod is supposed to be humorous but I wasn't sure how popular he would be to a worldwide audience. Plus it was not a model. Just a greyscale sprite that I colorized and slapped in the game.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 03 September 2017 - 03:59 AM

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