[Jimmy]

spongefreddie, on Jun 19 2009, 03:24 AM, said:

Behold, you smugly all-knowing, surly pooh-poohers of the "conspiracy theories":

http://www.vg247.com/2009/06/16/take-two-d...-bank-accounts/

After reading that short article, ask yourself the following questions:

Why would 3DR close down production in the first place if they actually had the money that Take-Two is alleging?

They wouldn't, so of course they don't have the alleged hidden money.

Based on the above, why would a seasoned company like Take-Two make a ridiculous allegation they would know was surely false? What could be gained with that nonsense? Do you truly imagine it's a clever ploy to acquire the IP? They would already know the allegation couldn't stand up in court.

Lastly, how is it possible that so many people claim that the speculation of this being a publicity stunt is moronic, when many articles are being published and literally thousands* of people are getting wrapped up in the apparent "intrigue?" If the pooh-poohers are correct, yay for them, but they only look equally as deluded as the conspiracy theorists when they insist that the buzz around this subject is minor or insignificant.

Read between the lines.

*Yes, thousands - look not merely at the number of posts in the Duke forums regarding this debacle... look also at the number of views.

Nicolas
7162.com

Your name is "spongefreddie", and you hand type your signature. You also like to spam your shitty website in your posts. I don't have to rebut a single thing you just said.

[Raziel]

Lotan, on Jun 22 2009, 10:33 AM, said:

Wow. Duke Begins. I wonder what it would have been like...

Well, personally I don't care about Duke Begins... but I will say one thing on the topic, this is just one more reason why DNF & the Duke IP in general is better off not being in Take-Two's hands. In this case they clearly had permission to do a 3rd party Duke game (and was apparently obligated to deliver), they even got a developer for it, then cancelled development... I still can't believe people think the Duke Nukem franchise is better off in Take-Two's hands, like I said before, they will probably just sell the IP off to the highest bidder and make a lot of money as a result. Well, at least now we know what the 2.5 million dollars was for now.

[ThePinkus]

Although this was almost the worst way to hear about this (other then the games being flat out cancelled) its good to know Duke was making a come back in a HUGE way.

First Duke XBLA

Then 3 games for the PSP/DS

And 3 mobile games

Duke Nukem Forever PC, then later Xbox

And Duke Nukem Begins, a game that would have 3 years of development by a "Well known" developer (That hopefully isn't Treyarch)

It sounds to me that, given this new knowledge, the two major games are being delayed from their supposed deadlines (DNF by April of next year, DNB by summer of next year). Plus, we would have one PSP/DS game before then, and the others coming out that year/the next. Then the other mobile games.

2010 would've been one bitching good year.

Damn you Take Two

[zwieback]

stop bitching around like little childs. don't be angry because you don't get DNF for christmas.
everything will workout ok.

[Raziel]

zwieback, on Jun 23 2009, 03:05 AM, said:

everything will workout ok.

I feel the same way...

[X-Vector]

"Duke Begins"?
"Duke Begins"?

As if the whole DNF fiasco wasn't enough, 3DR boldly went ahead in its tireless quest to become the biggest laughing stock in the gaming industry ever.

*claps*

[Lt.Havoc]

X-Vector, on Jun 23 2009, 02:58 PM, said:

"Duke Begins"?
"Duke Begins"?

As if the whole DNF fiasco wasn't enough, 3DR boldly went ahead in its tireless quest to become the biggest laughing stock in the gaming industry ever.

*claps*

That was just the working title, I doubt it would have been relased under that name at all.

[crunchysuperman]

Lt.Havoc, on Jun 23 2009, 09:06 AM, said:

That was just the working title

Where did you read that?

[Kristian Joensen]

"And Duke Nukem Begins, a game that would have 3 years of development by a "Well known" developer (That hopefully isn't Treyarch)"

It couldn't have been Treyarch, Activision owns that.

[dino]

Rockstar Games

[Kristian Joensen]

From the way they word it, it sounds like it was a external studio.

[Lt.Havoc]

crunchysuperman, on Jun 23 2009, 03:23 PM, said:

Where did you read that?

I read it here: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/06/22/cou...duke-beginsquot

Quote

Digging deeper into a court document filed on Friday by Duke Nukem developer Apogee Software reveals that - at least according to Apogee's attorneys - 2K Games is creating a new Duke Nukem property with the working title Duke Begins.

[Sangman]

this is the biggest marketing hoax ever lol lol

[Jimmy]

Yep. The exact group who couldn't finish a game in 12 years has the capacity to pull off the biggest marketing scheme ever.

[Shax]

I have no doubt that Duke Begins would have come out before DNF. Why, because it was not gonna be made by 3DR! I'm sickened with people still taking 3DRs side in all this. I don't care if TT is trying to grab the IP, who can blame them? In my eyes TT is trying to salvage whats left of the IP from a developer who has allowed it to languish in oblivion for over a decade!

[Sketch]

Guys...you know there's a post over at Shacknews confirming DNF is still being worked on right?

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Raziel]

Shax, on Jun 23 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

I have no doubt that Duke Begins would have come out before DNF. Why, because it was not gonna be made by 3DR! I'm sickened with people still taking 3DRs side in all this. I don't care if TT is trying to grab the IP, who can blame them? In my eyes TT is trying to salvage whats left of the IP from a developer who has allowed it to languish in oblivion for over a decade!

Are you a complete idiot?! Take-Two halted development on Duke Begins after a year and that was after having a contractual obligation with 3DR to make it (and keep them in the loop). So no, Duke Begins wouldn't have come out before DNF because it isn't being worked on. You obviously didn't read the court document and now you're just posting shit in here... go back, read the document and then start posting. Take-Two isn't as reliable as you think they are... At the very least you'd expect them to directly answer 3DR when they asked if the game was still going ahead as planned. At least we know for a fact that 3DR was still working on DNF until Take-Two caused the development to stop after promising to fund the rest of the project but ended up screwing 3DR over instead.

3DR told Take-Two it needed 6 million (which is peanuts for a game, for reference, TT spent 100 million on GTA4), Take-Two later said they are only willing to give 3DR 5 million, which 3DR agreed on. But then, with only a few days notice before Take-Two was supposed to start funding the game, they changed the funding agreement to only 2.5 million. Even an idiot can see that 3DR wouldn't sign a contract that says, "cool, we'll finish off the game by [date] with 2.5 million of funding" because it simply wasn't enough to finish the game. Take-Two didn't want to change the agreement back to 5 million and instead tried to acquire the entire Duke Nukem franchise for free in a second contract with no guarantees that they would finish DNF or what would become of the development team... Now, considering that they cancelled/delayed Duke Begins after a year, would you honestly agree to their ridiculous contract to acquire the entire franchise and team for free without a guarantee that DNF would be finished? If you just said yes, you are an even a bigger idiot than I thought... No one would have agreed to these terms, myself included. And if that puts me under the same category as George Broussard, then so be it.

With no funding, 3DR had no choice but to lay off the development team until it figured out how it would continue development without Take-Two's help - it never at any point in time stated that DNF was cancelled because it was their intention to complete it. Of course TT then filed a lawsuit based on false facts which it knew was not correct, such as 3DR closing its doors, cancelling DNF, having rights to the source code when clearly they did not, attempting to request repayment of a loan 3 years before it is actually due, claiming it paid 12 million for the right to publish DNF when 3DR had nothing to do with that contract with GT and never received any of that money, etc. etc. So to put it bluntly, it is Take-Two's fault it wasn't completed and even if Take-Two intended to finish DNF, after hearing what happened to Duke Begins, I seriously doubt they would finish DNF anyway. Scott and George probably drew the same conclusion and even if they didn't, if I was them, I still wouldn't agree to that contract since the Duke IP is worth a lot more than nothing. As a worse case scenario, 3DR could sell the IP to someone else for 40-60 million under the agreement that they have permission to finish off DNF, that would have solved all their funding problems and would have placed them in a much better financial situation compared to what Take-Two was proposing (in fact, Scott said if Take-Two really offered 30 million for the franchise as rumors claimed at the time, they would have sold it, even though it is worth a lot more than that).

So two notes, Take-Two had the ability to see DNF completed, they chose not to have it completed, and secondly, they won't complete it even if they got permission to do so - which they won't, because the contract clearly states the game has to be finished and that the code has to be requested in writing within 30 days of it going retail. So Take-Two doesn't have a right to the code anyway and I can't see this court case changing that. And if they acquired the Duke IP - which again, they won't, they'd simply sell it off to the highest bidder and make some extra money.

And finally, who cares if they've been working on the game for over a decade, it was on its way to being finished, that's all that matters... And in reply to "I'm sickened with people still taking 3DRs side in all this", I am sickened by your lack of competence to read the court document before posting on here.

[Raziel]

Whichever way you look at it, it is Take-Two's fault that the game is in the state it is in right now. If Take-Two did not intend to properly fund development they should have told 3DR straight up instead of making false promises, that way 3DR would have had time to find funding elsewhere. 3DR told them they needed 6 million, they later said they will only give them 5 million, which 3DR accepted. Then, only a few days before Take-Two would have started funding the project, they changed the agreement to only half of the originally agreed amount (2.5 million). If 3DR was not mislead by Take-Two into believing they had funding, it would have given them time to look for other options and they would have acquired the additional funding somewhere else and would not have needed to get rid of the development team. 3DR's Scott Miller believes this was done on purpose in an attempt to gain the Duke IP. So... I don't see why so many people treat Take-Two as the knight in shining armor, they mislead 3DR, offered two ridiculous contracts which no one would accept in their right mind and this eventually led to the situation we have here... If they were just honest with 3DR and said they would only fund 2.5 million, or even nothing at all, 3DR would have gone to other places to acquire the additional funding instead of having to halt the development until a solution to their funding problem could be found.

[Raziel]

Sketch, on Jun 23 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

Guys...you know there's a post over at Shacknews confirming DNF is still being worked on right?

I didn't know about that actually, can you link to it for us? I had a look at the latest court related article over at shacknews but I don't see any posts from Scott that says anything of that sort, rather, I don't see any posts from Scott, which post am I looking for?

[Kathy]

Quote

Surprisingly, 3D Realms explicitly notes that it continues to work on "the development of" Duke Nukem Forever, though "it released the majority of its employees working on the development" because of a "lack of funding to sustain the high level of development."

"[3D Realms/Apogee Ltd.] admits that it has continually worked on the development of the DNF for many years, and continues to do so," reads the specific clause.

http://www.shacknews...ticle.x?id=1154

[Raziel]

Oh, I thought you guys meant an actual post from a human instead of an article. Like from Scott or someone, if you just mean the article on Shacknews and the court document, I've been through them, I was kind of hoping for a post from Scott saying "well, we have X people working on it right now and intend to hire more once........" type of post .

edit: well, I suppose an article is from a human as well, but that's besides the point.

[Kathy]

Maybe 3DR is also(like some fans) in denial that DNF was cancelled. They still think they are working on this game.

[zchri9]

[Kathy]

Erm, and the point was... what exactly?

P.S. George is really fat, btw.

[Raziel]

Lotan, on Jun 23 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

P.S. George is really fat, btw.

What are you talking about? He's just big-boned...

p.s. this post contains sarcasm.

[PokeThePower]

Sketch, on Jun 23 2009, 03:32 PM, said:

Guys...you know there's a post over at Shacknews confirming DNF is still being worked on right?

/facepalm

Raziel, on Jun 23 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

Are you a complete idiot?! Take-Two halted development on Duke Begins after a year and that was after having a contractual obligation with 3DR to make it (and keep them in the loop). So no, Duke Begins wouldn't have come out before DNF because it isn't being worked on. You obviously didn't read the court document and now you're just posting shit in here... go back, read the document and then start posting.

/double facepalm

[Sketch]

I said that because people were just babbling on y'know.

[Shax]

Raziel, on Jun 23 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Are you a complete idiot?! Take-Two halted development on Duke Begins after a year and that was after having a contractual obligation with 3DR to make it (and keep them in the loop). So no, Duke Begins wouldn't have come out before DNF because it isn't being worked on. You obviously didn't read the court document and now you're just posting shit in here... go back, read the document and then start posting. Take-Two isn't as reliable as you think they are... At the very least you'd expect them to directly answer 3DR when they asked if the game was still going ahead as planned. At least we know for a fact that 3DR was still working on DNF until Take-Two caused the development to stop after promising to fund the rest of the project but ended up screwing 3DR over instead.

3DR told Take-Two it needed 6 million (which is peanuts for a game, for reference, TT spent 100 million on GTA4), Take-Two later said they are only willing to give 3DR 5 million, which 3DR agreed on. But then, with only a few days notice before Take-Two was supposed to start funding the game, they changed the funding agreement to only 2.5 million. Even an idiot can see that 3DR wouldn't sign a contract that says, "cool, we'll finish off the game by [date] with 2.5 million of funding" because it simply wasn't enough to finish the game. Take-Two didn't want to change the agreement back to 5 million and instead tried to acquire the entire Duke Nukem franchise for free in a second contract with no guarantees that they would finish DNF or what would become of the development team... Now, considering that they cancelled/delayed Duke Begins after a year, would you honestly agree to their ridiculous contract to acquire the entire franchise and team for free without a guarantee that DNF would be finished? If you just said yes, you are an even a bigger idiot than I thought... No one would have agreed to these terms, myself included. And if that puts me under the same category as George Broussard, then so be it.

With no funding, 3DR had no choice but to lay off the development team until it figured out how it would continue development without Take-Two's help - it never at any point in time stated that DNF was cancelled because it was their intention to complete it. Of course TT then filed a lawsuit based on false facts which it knew was not correct, such as 3DR closing its doors, cancelling DNF, having rights to the source code when clearly they did not, attempting to request repayment of a loan 3 years before it is actually due, claiming it paid 12 million for the right to publish DNF when 3DR had nothing to do with that contract with GT and never received any of that money, etc. etc. So to put it bluntly, it is Take-Two's fault it wasn't completed and even if Take-Two intended to finish DNF, after hearing what happened to Duke Begins, I seriously doubt they would finish DNF anyway. Scott and George probably drew the same conclusion and even if they didn't, if I was them, I still wouldn't agree to that contract since the Duke IP is worth a lot more than nothing. As a worse case scenario, 3DR could sell the IP to someone else for 40-60 million under the agreement that they have permission to finish off DNF, that would have solved all their funding problems and would have placed them in a much better financial situation compared to what Take-Two was proposing (in fact, Scott said if Take-Two really offered 30 million for the franchise as rumors claimed at the time, they would have sold it, even though it is worth a lot more than that).

So two notes, Take-Two had the ability to see DNF completed, they chose not to have it completed, and secondly, they won't complete it even if they got permission to do so - which they won't, because the contract clearly states the game has to be finished and that the code has to be requested in writing within 30 days of it going retail. So Take-Two doesn't have a right to the code anyway and I can't see this court case changing that. And if they acquired the Duke IP - which again, they won't, they'd simply sell it off to the highest bidder and make some extra money.

And finally, who cares if they've been working on the game for over a decade, it was on its way to being finished, that's all that matters... And in reply to "I'm sickened with people still taking 3DRs side in all this", I am sickened by your lack of competence to read the court document before posting on here.

Yeah you're right I didn't read the contract. Why, cause I don't give 2 shits about whats in the fucking contract. You wrote this wall of text going on and on about Duke Begins, the main point of my post was 3DR should lose the Duke IP! George and Scott are lazy and incompetent! I have had to deal with lazy people my entire life, they always have an excuse why they can't do this, that or the other thing. Now George is blaming TT for DNF not finishing! It must have been nice for him to live in a fairy tale world where the air doesn't move and you can do whatever you want with no consequences. I'm not interested in George's pathetic excuses after waiting over 12 years. I'm interested in results and a finished product. Raz you gotta be high or out of your fucking mind if you think Duke has any kind a future with 3DR. The only way we will ever see more Duke games is if 3DR hands over the development to other studios! TT should get the Duke IP by any means necessary, HAIL TT!!

[Lt.Havoc]

Shax, stop playing the angry old man, that wont do anything. Do you know Gorge and Scott personally, do you worked for them, do you ever ran a company, did you ever devloped games? You may not give 2 shits about the contract because you are not involved, but a contract is a legal bound obligation that both sides have to agree on, if one sides brakes it then the other can get in trouble, thats what happend here, but its not clear if the contract was broken or not and wihch side caused it.

We know jack shit what really happend, all we have are a bunch of legal documents and press relases that only tell us one side of the story and if that all goes to court, its up to the lawyers and judges to tell who is right and who is wrong in this one and what you have to say will still not matter in any way at all, because you are an outsider and your demans are unimportant to the Court.

You know, Shax at the end of the day, we are talking about a Video Game, nothing more nothing less, nothing speical, just another game among many that has the tilte Duke Nukem Forever. Do you know what that means? You are getting all worked up over thins for a danm game, that is made to be played in your spare time and to be enjoyed. There i nothing fundamental existentially important to this game, if you didnt worked for the company who made it.

That means you should start to look at it like this, this game wont change your life in any way and all your anger and frustration is wasted engery that you should put into more important things in life then a game.

In short: grow up.