Duke4.net Forums: Duke Nukem - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Hide message Show message
Welcome to the Duke4.net Forums!

Register an account now to get access to all board features. After you've registered and logged in, you'll be able to create topics, post replies, send and receive private messages, disable the viewing of ads and more!

  • 19 Pages +
  • « First
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Duke Nukem

User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#151

View Postnecroslut, on 31 May 2017 - 02:32 AM, said:

Secrets and freedom of movement were, in the case of Duke and Build games, very intimately related. It helped make the secrets (and exploration in general) in my opinion much more interesting than in Doom.

The high degree of freedom of movement meant you were free to explore what was in other games, both earlier and later, just set dressing - you could jump or fly up to that small ledge to see if anything was there, or it could give you a vantage point from where other secrets could be seen. Or crawl though that tight space or air duct. Maybe even explore the roof by jumping out a second story window.

It allowed mappers to place secret items and areas much more logically, and the secrets themselves could help set the mood and theme of the maps and episodes.


In fact, this freedom was absent from some parts of WT and was one of the low points of the new episode.
1

User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 751

#152

If I think of a new Duke Nukem game, one should look at the recent remakes of other games, especially

Rise of the Triad (2013)
As much as this game did wrong (crashes/bugs, sluggish movement, annoying jumping sections, frustrating checkpoint system etc), it had a lot of things fans liked: Weapons, enemies, levels, secrets, jump pads, floating platforms... everything was very reminiscent of the original. You could see that this was done by fans of the old ROTT. A pity it wasn't executed as flawlessly as it could have been. When it wasn't annoying you with frequent respawns at the last checkpoint because you didn't survive one of the horrible jumping sequences, it often really felt like you were playing ROTT 1994 with a good highres pack (and better level design which didn't consist of 90° angles only).

Shadow Warrior 1+2 (2013/2016)
This was more a reboot than a remake, with significant changes applied to the main character and general atmosphere. Yet it worked because of satisfying sword combat, humor, beautiful environments and motivating weapon upgrades. Also, the Asian setting is something you don't see too often in shooters, so it was a welcome change. They took it over the top a bit in SW2 with the tiresome gem system, but the rest of the game is still quite fun.

What such games can teach us regarding a potential TRUE successor to Duke Nukem 3D:
- Stay true to the style of the original. Main character and settings can change, but it should make sense. In Duke's case however, he should really go back to the way he was in 1996. What happened in DNF and Bulletstorm was, well, an abomination.
- Put things into the game that veterans recognize. It's not a shame when weapons, powerups and enemies remind you of the old times if they look great and are fun to use/interact with.
- A bit of non-linearity should be there. ROTT experimented with bringing back the key system (IIRC), and it felt refreshing. No needless restrictions like rail shooter passages, please.
- Creative and rewarding secret areas are pretty much a must-have.
- Quicksave feature, pretty please. ROTT and SW both used checkpoints which are kinda ok if they are done correctly - if not, it makes you wanna ragequit really fast.
- Medpacks instead of auto heal.
- I would also like to see a return of the episodic format with levels clearly separated from each other. It gave you a certain closure after a certain amount of levels and helped to divide playtime into "portions".

Maybe not all of this can or (even should) be realized since in total, it might be too retro - but a decent compromise between classic gameplay and modern adjustments should be found.


This post has been edited by NightFright: 31 May 2017 - 04:28 AM

3

User is offline   December Man 

  • 31

#153

I think Duke's character needs an overhaul. Even the DN3D version of him was a bit one note (still leagues better than the original Lo Wang). He needs a bit more depth is what I'm saying, just like the new Lo Wang: LW 2013 is not that deep, but enough that you actually like the guy by the end of the game. Duke needs this.

Also, I want to be able to swallow steroids, rip out a toilet and kill a Pig Cop with it.
0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,764

#154

I don't think depth is what's needed at all. That's what pushes it TOO FAR serious. I don't need some sob story history to be able to relate to Duke. I don't want to relate to Duke. I want to admire him. We are inundated with relatable heroes. That's not the answer, that's going too far in the WRONG direction. The whole allure of his character is that he's one note. A bunch of aliens are basically bringing about the apocalypse and Duke is the one person who is just that tough enough to not allow it to happen and bring it. For all of DNF's faults, that's what I loved about the beginning of DNF when he first shoots at the mothership. It'd have been better if there was no "talks of peace" or garbage like that and they were just coming to destroy and everyone's freaking out and Duke is the only one who can pull it all together and stick a giant middle finger to the invasion attempt and single-handedly destroy the first wave. That's what I LOVE about Duke. I don't need touchy feelies. I just want satisfaction of destruction and alien death without all the cringe. There's a way to do that without giving him depth.

As to your second point, that would be awesome. And totally incompatible with your first point.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
new! It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 01 June 2017 - 02:37 PM

5

User is online   Never Forgotten 

  • 190

#155

Quote

He needs a bit more depth is what I'm saying, just like the new Lo Wang: LW 2013 is not that deep, but enough that you actually like the guy by the end of the game. Duke needs this.


No... Duke doesn't need that. Duke is a character that doesn't need to be deep. He's a man who comes in, kicks ass, and leaves. The character needs a bit of mystery to him, otherwise he's just a boring, generic character. I like my Duke reminiscent of the 80's and 90's, where you main characters didn't have depth, they just kicked ass and said cool lines. I have always loved the classic Lo Wang by the way, and I don't care too much for the new one. I find him rather annoying, and his voice is piercing as well. I prefer the old, deeper voice. Keep in mind, it's just my opinion.

Quote

Also, I want to be able to swallow steroids, rip out a toilet and kill a Pig Cop with it.


That would be rather amazing. Add to that, it'd be cool to have a glory kill like system, where you interact more with the environments. Like, if you're near a toilet, Duke could rip it out and bash a head in, or shove an enemy's head into the toilet. Or if you're near a sink, Duke could go Batman on an alien, and rip it out of the wall, and then bash the alien's head in. You could also do chair, where you could pick one up, and shove the leg into an alien's eye socket. Near a vehicle, low on ammo, do not fret, rip the door off and beat an alien to death with it. There are so many possibilities, and Randy, if you read this... please take these into consideration when making the next Duke game. I know you could pull it off nicely, and I have so many other ideas. I know I'm not that big in the Duke community, but I'm a lifelong Duke fan, so I'll always be here to offer some ideas. :dukehappy:

Who Loves Ya Baby?

Never Forgotten/Focus Gaming
2

User is offline   necroslut 

  • 191

#156

Quote

I think Duke's character needs an overhaul. Even the DN3D version of him was a bit one note (still leagues better than the original Lo Wang). He needs a bit more depth is what I'm saying, just like the new Lo Wang: LW 2013 is not that deep, but enough that you actually like the guy by the end of the game. Duke needs this.

Also, I want to be able to swallow steroids, rip out a toilet and kill a Pig Cop with it.

The one thing they absolutely shouldn't do is overwrite the damn thing, including Duke himself. Keep it focused around the gameplay, not story. Take a note from Half-Life and keep story vague and implied, that leaves from for player freedom. If you want character development go read a damn book, because it doesn't really have a place here.

It can be a bit tricky to pull it off in these days where people are so used to have everything spelled out for them, but if you want to recreate the experience of Duke 3D (as opposed to recreate Duke 3D itself) you cannot let story get in the way. Duke should be one-note. Duke should be one-dimensional. He should barely be a character, even. Because if he's too fleshed out he cannot possibly "fit" to all the different things players will want him to do. Oneliners are vague, that works, but by giving him what you request it would unavoidably create GTA-style dissonance between the pre-written narrative and the "narrative" emerging from how players play him.

As for the second part, one of the things I liked a lot in DNF was how you could pick up objects in the world and use them to kill enemies. It was underused and underdeveloped, and it wasn't even implemented in the multiplayer at all sadly, but its a cool feature and fitting with the character.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels

This post has been edited by necroslut: 02 June 2017 - 01:30 AM

1

User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#157

View PostNever Forgotten, on 01 June 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

No... Duke doesn't need that. Duke is a character that doesn't need to be deep. He's a man who comes in, kicks ass, and leaves. The character needs a bit of mystery to him, otherwise he's just a boring, generic character. I like my Duke reminiscent of the 80's and 90's, where you main characters didn't have depth, they just kicked ass and said cool lines. I have always loved the classic Lo Wang by the way, and I don't care too much for the new one. I find him rather annoying, and his voice is piercing as well. I prefer the old, deeper voice. Keep in mind, it's just my opinion.


I agree. I actually think Hoji is the true star of SW2013, as it's him who sets the plot in motion, and he's the one with the funniest lines. Lo Wang's best interactions in the game are with Hoji, so much that his feud with Zilla is absolutely secondary to the plot, although that may have had something to do with SW2013 being a prequel as well as a reboot.
1

User is offline   Shaq Fu 

  • 116

#158

I think they should keep it simple with Duke's character. Similar to that of a talking version of the DoomGuy in Doom 2k16. Something with the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie Commando. Someone cool enough that you'd root for and feel like a king while playing.

Posted Image

Old-school FPS style levels with an urban environment in a modern video game would be incredible to see as well.

This post has been edited by Shaq Fu: 02 June 2017 - 07:24 AM

3

User is offline   December Man 

  • 31

#159

View PostNever Forgotten, on 01 June 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

That would be rather amazing. Add to that, it'd be cool to have a glory kill like system, where you interact more with the environments. Like, if you're near a toilet, Duke could rip it out and bash a head in, or shove an enemy's head into the toilet. Or if you're near a sink, Duke could go Batman on an alien, and rip it out of the wall, and then bash the alien's head in. You could also do chair, where you could pick one up, and shove the leg into an alien's eye socket. Near a vehicle, low on ammo, do not fret, rip the door off and beat an alien to death with it. There are so many possibilities, and Randy, if you read this... please take these into consideration when making the next Duke game. I know you could pull it off nicely, and I have so many other ideas. I know I'm not that big in the Duke community, but I'm a lifelong Duke fan, so I'll always be here to offer some ideas. :dukehappy:


That's what I was thinking too. One of DN3D's biggest advantages was its interactivity. The new Duke could expand upon that and add environmental kills and / or weapons, like the car doors you mentioned, or picking up a bottle, breaking it and using it as a powerful melee weapon.
0

User is offline   axl 

  • 120

#160

View PostNever Forgotten, on 01 June 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

No... Duke doesn't need that. Duke is a character that doesn't need to be deep. He's a man who comes in, kicks ass, and leaves. The character needs a bit of mystery to him, otherwise he's just a boring, generic character. I like my Duke reminiscent of the 80's and 90's, where you main characters didn't have depth, they just kicked ass and said cool lines. I have always loved the classic Lo Wang by the way, and I don't care too much for the new one. I find him rather annoying, and his voice is piercing as well. I prefer the old, deeper voice. Keep in mind, it's just my opinion.


I agree.... Duke is a simple man. He says a few oneliners... but he mostly kicks ass.... just like John Matrix in Commando, Kyle Reese in The Terminator, Ash in the Evil Dead, Dutch in Predator, Clint Eastwood in the dollars films, Cobra in... Cobra, ... a wisecracking alien ass-kicker... keep it simple... just like the Doomguy.
1

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,764

#161

I don't agree with your Kyle Reese analogy as he had some depth to him, but the others I agree.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
new! It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
0

User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#162

I'll agree with simplicity. But the most important thing when making a new Duke game is just to be bold. Duke is a laid-back, womanizing asskicker with an ego the size of the Empire State building. So, stick true to that. Polygon won't like it, but who cares? Why turn Duke into something he's not for the sake of good reviews from people who never got his character?

He does get serious in Duke3D, though. His last blow to the Battlelord is unadulterated seriousness. He blasts the monster's head off and gives a speech showing he means business.
3

User is offline   necroslut 

  • 191

#163

View PostDuke of Hazzard, on 04 June 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

I'll agree with simplicity. But the most important thing when making a new Duke game is just to be bold. Duke is a laid-back, womanizing asskicker with an ego the size of the Empire State building. So, stick true to that. Polygon won't like it, but who cares? Why turn Duke into something he's not for the sake of good reviews from people who never got his character?

He does get serious in Duke3D, though. His last blow to the Battlelord is unadulterated seriousness. He blasts the monster's head off and gives a speech showing he means business.

I think Duke was "always" pretty serious, from his own point of view. It might be funny to onlookers, but he's not really fucking around.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
0

User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 288

#164

It seems not even the community has a consensus what's needed for this franchise, at least considering the character.

I think Duke's personality is irrelevant. Not too dumb, but that's all. Duke needs complex, intuitive leveldesign with good easy to relate references.
0

User is offline   necroslut 

  • 191

#165

View PostNancsi, on 04 June 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

It seems not even the community has a consensus what's needed for this franchise, at least considering the character.

I think Duke's personality is irrelevant. Not too dumb, but that's all. Duke needs complex, intuitive leveldesign with good easy to relate references.

That's the thing with keeping writing light and leave room for interpretation - it allows the character to act as a canvas for the player. A bit like Gordon Freeman's silent protagonist, but while still bringing some attitude and presence and so on.
Especially with more open-ended game- and level design that is valuable, as players probably won't tackle things in exactly the same order or pace. To avoid ending up with some sort of narrative dissonance, it's wise to leave some wiggle room in the writing. Duke's personality - as it was in Duke 3D - accomplishes this.

On topic of the level design, I think there's actually a problem that needs tackling there, how to successfully pull Build school of level design into today. Development cost compared to playtime is an issue that shouldn't be overlooked, but so is readability. The more detail you add to the game's visual presentation - be it props, texture detail, lighting, particles and shaders etc. - the more difficult it becomes to quickly read the scene and see what you're actually looking at, telling apart architecture and decoration and so on. Doom 4 had very simple level design, but it also had a somewhat stylized graphic style with a lot of plain surfaces, which helped making it possible to actually use the level design in combat. In a lot of newer games, this is not really possible.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
0

User is offline   December Man 

  • 31

#166

What do you guys think about reloading? I think it should be implemented to some degree i.e. be there, but be fast. Duke is not Doom and although in DN3D only the pistol had to be reloaded, in general it was slow enough to have reloads on nearly all weapons.

This post has been edited by December Man: 05 June 2017 - 02:23 AM

0

User is online   stumppy84 

  • 52

#167

All good points! I'm so glad/excited this conversation will happen possibly this week!!
0

User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,207

#168

View PostDecember Man, on 05 June 2017 - 02:23 AM, said:

Duke is not Doom.

I actually disagree. I think the same fast pace nature of Doom 2017 with Duke Nukem's attitude will be a really fun game. Throw in some buildings falling down and strippers, and I think your done. Best not to over analyze what works. Also the next Duke game has to come with developer tools.

ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw

This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 05 June 2017 - 07:27 AM

1

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,764

#169

I wouldn't mind one way or the other I think.

Though, I was surprised by how enjoyable Doom 4 was without it. I didn't think it'd make that much of a difference but it really did. So maybe without...or automatic only for certain weapons like the pistol.

On that topic, maybe there could be more than one type of weapon each. Like more than one pistol, more than one shotgun, etc and all with slightly different features/pros/cons. Like Counter-Strike weapons. Except make the differences more exaggerated and stylistic. Like instead of the Desert Eagle having more power but less bullets in a mag and a Beretta or something being weaker but twice as many bullets in a mag, have it be something like the Desert Eagle just blows limbs apart while a faster shooting weaker pistol can pummel enemies constantly and drive them back each time while not allowing them to shoot. I don't know. Just trying to think of something over the top. But having more than one type of a certain weapon appeals to me. It's nice to have the iconic weapons, but it would also be nice to counter DNF's limited weapon system by filling the weapon wheel with interesting and useful weapons! Maybe it's not feasible, though.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
new! It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
0

User is offline   December Man 

  • 31

#170

View Posticecoldduke, on 05 June 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

I actually disagree. I think the same fast pace nature of Doom 2017 with Duke Nukem's attitude will be a really fun game. Throw in some buildings falling down and strippers, and I think your done. Best not to over analyze what works. Also the next Duke game has to come with developer tools.


Yes, that might work. However, I bet a lot of people would complain that "it's just Doom with Duke Nukem" or some nonsense like that. I actually like Duke's slower, more methodical gameplay to Doom's breakneck speed. It's still a lot faster than most modern shooters, though.
1

User is offline   hismasterplan 

  • 84

#171

Speed can at least be slowed down, not the other way around so I hope we get a fast Duke.
0

User is offline   Splat 

  • Eat Shit and...
  • 69

  #172

I believe a game character completely deprived of political correctness is a rare thing and possibly a money making thing. Make Duke extremely anti-liberal, bigoted and controversial again. Make it political...Make Duke great again.

Duke4.net Graphics Whore
4

User is online   stumppy84 

  • 52

#173

Hopefully this happens soon! I can't wait!!
0

User is offline   Minigunner 

  • 185

#174

A big thing regarding Duke that even Jon St John doesn't seem to get is that quite a few of his lines are situational. He has certain lines for getting weapons, certain lines for gibbing monsters, and certain lines that he only speaks once (I'm referring to the overused shit-down-neck and bubblegum lines). Those two in particular have an impact mainly because they're only spoken once and are obvious references too. Duke should be a lot more situational/contextual in his speech, and not so much flinging whatever one-liner the randomizer chooses at any given time.
0

User is offline   xMobilemux 

  • 1,075

#175

View PostSplat, on 06 June 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

I believe a game character completely deprived of political correctness is a rare thing and possibly a money making thing. Make Duke extremely anti-liberal, bigoted and controversial again. Make it political...Make Duke great again.

This is why I believe the next Duke game getting a Duke Nukem version of Demolition Man would be the perfect idea and perfect Duke game in this day and age of Political Correctness infecting gaming.

The amount of material for jokes and references for Duke would be endless and the nature of the story and theme can effortlessly fit the character of Duke.

Duke can be frozen in cryo sleep, or vanish for a long time(Poking fun at DNFs long development time) and return in an age full of swearing fines, no sex, no guns and all that PC shit we so loathe, Duke is in shock and disgust at what the world has become in his absence(Referencing what our modern world is pushing on us).

Then the aliens invade and the PC people can't fight back because they're too PC and start spewing out bullshit about "tolerance" and all that crap instead of fighting(Referencing today's bullshit about "tolerating" Muslim terror attacks) .

Duke decides "Fuck that" and fights back with everything we know and love about Duke Nukem, kicking the living shit outta the aliens and restoring all the
love of swearing, sex, big guns and all the Politically Incorrect stuff we love back to the way it should be.

Hell they could even work in some sub plot in which the game is actually Duke Nukem's Presidential Campaign, Duke is trying to run for POTUS, but the PC media is calling him all the "ist" buzzwords and what not, then the aliens invade, Duke defeats them, becomes President and "Makes America Groovy Again!!"(Referencing Trump and his ascend to Office).

The amount of possibilities are endless and it would allow for Duke's 80s Action Hero character not to change too much and would be very relevant for the war on culture and even the war on gaming that is happening today.

Plus, given the franchises history on interactive toilets, I'd love to see Duke interacting with those Swearing machines.


Posted Image

This post has been edited by xMobilemux: 06 June 2017 - 09:16 PM

2

User is offline   December Man 

  • 31

#176

Oh no, do not make it overly political. Such piece of media become obsolete once the political climate changes i.e. DN3D is a classic because it is not overly political (one of the reasons).
0

User is offline   hismasterplan 

  • 84

#177

This thread went south fast. 'South will rise again' fast.
0

User is offline   gemeaux333 

  • 3

#178

What about Dylan returning ?

He definitly is the right guy to greatly value Duke's class/good manners/manliness/etc... because Dylan is an antithesis of Duke and a perfect straight man for him !

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 07 June 2017 - 05:02 AM

-3

User is offline   Major Tom 

  • 105

#179

Can we at least make sure that in the next game, Duke can save the babes a la the FEMCON mod and every game from Duke Nukem 64 all the way to Duke Nukem Manhattan Project?

If Duke is to be restored to his 90s-era magnificence, then babe-rescuing needs to be at the top of his priority list.
1

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,764

#180

I think the lack of babe-saving adds weight to the atmosphere and fuel to Duke's (the player's) rage against the aliens. It's not really a big issue for me, though. They could have it or not. I think there are more important aspects to focus on and get right.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
new! It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
1

Share this topic:


  • 19 Pages +
  • « First
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks are property of their respective owners. Instead of reading this text, you could be playing Ion Maiden! ;) © 2018 Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options