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EDuke32, Polymer: Shadows and specular effects disabling after reloading a game

User is offline   FRVIND 

#31

I agree... same problem
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User is offline   FRVIND 

#32

DukePlus Is not the problem
I'll try to investigate about maphacks, this moment they are inside the zip duke3DHRP (I made this time ago). I would put them outside...
This problem has to be resolved 🤔
0

User is offline   FRVIND 

#33

DukePlus Is not the problem
I'll try to investigate about maphacks, this moment they are inside the zip duke3DHRP (I made this time ago). I would put them outside.
This problem has to be resolved 🤔
0

User is offline   FRVIND 

#34

DukePlus Is not the problem
I'll try to investigate about maphacks, this moment they are inside the zip duke3DHRP (I made this time ago). I would put them outside.
This problem has to be resolved 🤔
0

User is offline   FRVIND 

#35

DukePlus Is not the problem
I'll try to investigate about maphacks, this moment they are inside the zip duke3DHRP (I made this time ago). I would put them outside.
This problem has to be resolved 🤔
0

#36

Spamming the forum isn't going to get it fixed any faster.
0

User is offline   FRVIND 

#37

I had a problem with my mobile phone!
Have an Happy day
0

User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#38

As much as I’d like this problem to be resolved, and the renderer finished, the fact is polymer is dead by this point. Nobody’s working on it, and there’s not much demand for fancy graphics that are intended for games released 20 years after Duke 3D.

At this stage I’d rather see any effort go into putting dynamic spot lights into polymost.
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User is offline   FRVIND 

#39

The question is... Why to raise efforts to somewhat similar to vanilla graphic? And don't try to focus on something already advanced? I consider myself a purist gamer (and builder) of Duke Nukem 3D, so or I play Classic or Polymer, why should I get off in the middle? 🙄
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User is offline   FRVIND 

#40

Duke Nukem Is still Alive thanks to Polymer, not Polymost. I used Build from the beginning and I think the real breakthrough was Mapster32 and Polymer.
In this way I don't believe for example to the revisiting of Duke throught Serious Sam. It's not the right way to make immortal the game, on the contrary: because You can't made yours own levels.
I don't even like modding except for DukePlus, because this One enhances the characteristics and possibilities, but does not distort the previous ones 🤷
-1

User is offline   FRVIND 

#41

...it is also a way to attract new generations (which for example are already attracted to the minecraft editor)
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#42

Expecting anything to be fixed seems to be a tall ask, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you and largely retired from mapping because of longstanding problems, among other reasons.

Polymer was a fantastic renderer when the lights were turned off, it was even quite quick with them disabled at one time. No matter what people try to tell me, I don't believe Polymost will ever look right and will never be fully capable of drawing certain 'advanced architecture' correctly, but hey, I'm only some guy who had to constantly try to work around its bullshit to build levels (until I stopped supporting its use in my maps), so what would I know versus those who supposedly maintain it and don't have to build maps with the damn thing.
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User is offline   FRVIND 

#43

Every work effort on Duke is to be rewarded. however I build tracks or scenarios for the pleasure of doing it and to play it myself, not to publish them (only once). and more than once with Build I hit my head to solve several problems myself. here's what it means to be a game lover and purist
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User is offline   FRVIND 

#44

... and then with an rtx 2060 there are no more problems with the lights on (even if not optimized)
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#45

View PostFRVIND, on 17 July 2020 - 09:24 PM, said:

Duke Nukem Is still Alive thanks to Polymer, not Polymost.


Do you have any evidence to back up that claim? Some of the biggest eduke32 releases; Ion Fury, WGRealms 2, AMC TC, Alien Armageddon, don't use polymer. DNF 2013 became quite famous and was targeted at the classic renderer. Compare that to Duke Nukem Eternity which tried to do something pretty similar with modern graphics, albeit with less trailer references, and ended up relatively obscure. When Trooper Dan announced WGRealm 2, he explicitly said something along the lines of "we're not trying to make a modern game here, we're going to do what eduke does best".

Modders who are interested in fancy graphics would prefer to work on more modern engines, and many people here who would have worked on polymer are long gone. There are still a few around like Mark, but they're the clear minority. Eduke32 is an old-school engine and attracts people who that appeals to. I'd very much like to have some basic modern features like dynamic coloured lights, but beyond a certain point there's diminishing returns in investment from implementing these modern features.

Edit: If there's anything that's going to bring new people into the Duke modding scene, it would be making mapster far more intuitive to new users, and possibly multiplayer.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 17 July 2020 - 11:00 PM

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User is offline   FRVIND 

#46

Ok ok, all great jobs. But I personally am not behind Duke thanks to them, but thanks to Mapster. Maintaining the old graphics engine does not mean that it cannot be updated. A new engine would need time and money and now there is none. We hope for a return in force of the old programmers
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User is offline   FRVIND 

#47

Moreover the intuitiveness of Mapster and its relative simplicity is the real key to success, otherwise we would not be here to talk. If we thought of a more complex game (and therefore a more complex editor) we would not have the same appeal. If then we manage to give an ever better graphic design then we have the maximum
0

User is offline   Mark 

  • you think those sunglasses make you look cool or somethin'

#48

Its good to see another Polymer fan here. There are so few of us left. :(
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#49

Polymer is dead, and good riddance.

Having made a mod with it, we spent most of our time trying to get around performance bottlenecks, graphics issues, shader issues, alpha transparency issues and other BS. If it wasn't for all the broken, janky crap in Polymer, we would have finished in half the time. I really wish we'd just made our mod in Unreal. Thanks to the guy here who convinced everyone that Gearbox would C&D any non-EDuke32 mods!

I'd like to see some kind of ability to have lights and normal maps in EDuke. I don't know if it's more feasible to upgrade Polymost or gut and reconfigure Polymer. There are so many problems with Polymer. You would have to change everything about it. If you do have a next-gen renderer in Eduke, will anyone come back and use it? Can it repair all the damage done?

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 18 July 2020 - 05:36 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • Buy Mage's Initiation!

#50

I love Polymer. Don't understand the hate it gets. I understand the frustrations of performance, but some people are just deadset against the whole idea and this makes no sense to me.
0

User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#51

The discussion in this thread seems disconnected from the reality of how the devs and modders make decisions about what to develop and use. Polymer wasn't murdered, it was a premature baby that died before it fully developed. When Plagman left the scene, no one else in the community had both the technical expertise and will to finish the project. We modders had already been using it on the promise that it would be finished and optimized. No one hated polymer: even most hardcore retro-fans still enjoy seeing sprites dynamically lit. I think the EDuke32 devs did the best they could with the resources they had available and turned their attention to polymost. Polymost has been improved; quite a bit in some respects. But even without the performance regressions, polymer was never optimized enough for the kinds of projects that most of us modders work on nowadays, with big complex maps and CPU intensive actors and effects. Again, we were using it because of its promise, not because it was good enough in its unoptimized state for longterm development. If ICD or someone else made a new polymer tomorrow I would use it.
3

User is offline   R A D A Я 

  • Zionist Shill

#52

With palette emulation and Y-shearing enabled and shade interpolation disabled, Polymost basically becomes a hardware accelerated renderer identical to classic. That is no small feat. It's nice having 240 fps consistently without your CPU fan spinning. Polymost is a highly optimized renderer that reaches 3000 fps on newer hardware, save for some TROR stuff that decimate performance sometimes. I know that it's not possible to add dynamic lights with the current Polymost, but I think the future of dynamic lights probably lies in some heavily mutilated version of Polymost that's modified just enough to hack in dynamic lights. It would most likely have to be a separate renderer with that many changes, but if all the optimizations of Polymost can be retained, then mission accomplished. The hype that was created on this forum back when ICD's renderer/s was/were in "development" really made no sense to me. I wasn't posting at the time so I didn't say anything but the reality is DirectX and Vulkan are just APIs like OpenGL and mean absolutely nothing when it comes to the feasibility of developing a highly optimized renderer with dynamic lights. Really the future of Duke probably lies in building on top of well-developed code we already have.

This post has been edited by R A D A Я: 18 July 2020 - 07:01 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

  • you think those sunglasses make you look cool or somethin'

#53

Despite Polymer's glitches and limitations its still the only renderer I have modded for and Eduke32/Build is the only engine I will mod for. We're stuck with each other. Yes, its frustrating at times but between team and solo projects I always manage to make it work somehow.
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User is online   Phredreeke 

#54

Most issues Polymost had have been resolved (sky texture rendering, hall of mirrors when shrunk and looking down) while Polymer still have the same problems it had for years

View PostR A D A Я, on 18 July 2020 - 06:50 AM, said:

I wasn't posting at the time so I couldn't say anything but the reality is Directx and Vulkan are just APIs like OpenGL and mean absolutely nothing when it comes to the feasibility of developing a highly optimized renderer with dynamic lights.


Until you try to run it on AMD GPUs...
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User is offline   R A D A Я 

  • Zionist Shill

#55

Pretty sure that was just Plagman not giving a sh!t. There's no reason OpenGL code can't be optimized to run well on AMD hardware.

This post has been edited by R A D A Я: 18 July 2020 - 07:04 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

  • you think those sunglasses make you look cool or somethin'

#56

For those that don't know, that photo on the desk is the creator of Polymer.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: polymerdev.jpg


This post has been edited by Mark: 18 July 2020 - 07:13 AM

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User is offline   FRVIND 

#57

 Mark, on 18 July 2020 - 06:57 AM, said:

Despite Polymer's glitches and limitations its still the only renderer I have modded for and Eduke32/Build is the only engine I will mod for. We're stuck with each other. Yes, its frustrating at times but between team and solo projects I always manage to make it work somehow.


I agree at all
1

User is offline   FRVIND 

#58

 Mark, on 18 July 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

For those that don't know, that photo on the desk is the creator of Polymer.


😄😄😁👍
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User is offline   FRVIND 

#59

ok ok i understand. without money nothing moves. I will finance the revival of polymers. who wants to be part of the group?
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User is online   Phredreeke 

#60

View PostR A D A Я, on 18 July 2020 - 07:03 AM, said:

Pretty sure that was just Plagman not giving a sh!t. There's no reason OpenGL code can't be optimized to run well on AMD hardware.


It's not just Polymer, it's pretty widely accepted that AMD is bad at OpenGL. Look at Doom 2016, once Vulkan support was added AMD GPUs got a massive performance boost while on nVidia GPUs it ran more or less the same as before.

Funny enough, the answer to the OpenGL on AMD woes may come from Microsoft
0

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