[Merlijn]

Ah nice, yes you can use this version then. It doesn't change anything in Eduke.

I may put this one up at ModDB too, for those who want to play the episode with one of the other ports.

[NightFright]

Thanks! Good thing is we know for sure this is 100% working in Rednukem with the fix applied.

[Phredreeke]

I wonder why EDuke32 had that behavior added in the first place? It seems more like a liability if anything

[Merlijn]

Speaking as a mapper, it was probably added to make mapping more user-friendly.

There's no scenario where an activator or a masterswitch needs to be blocking the player in-game, at least none I can think of. As I said earlier, they're just there to trigger effects/events.
So it makes sense to always unblock them by default. Which in turn makes it easier for mappers to implement large scale effects like the ones you see in Shaky Grounds.

[Aleks]

Phredreeke, on 09 January 2023 - 10:38 AM, said:

I wonder why EDuke32 had that behavior added in the first place? It seems more like a liability if anything

Considering all the effectors are designed, in general, to "not exist" within the game world, it seems only natural to hard-code their blocking bit to 0. Not sure if original game did that too and it was missed iin RedNukem for some reason or if both of these didn't automatically change the effectors' blocking bits, I've always been keeping all my effectors unblocked anyway just for the sake of tidyness anyway.

[Phredreeke]

Merlijn, on 09 January 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

Speaking as a mapper, it was probably added to make mapping more user-friendly.

There's no scenario where an activator or a masterswitch needs to be blocking the player in-game, at least none I can think of. As I said earlier, they're just there to trigger effects/events.
So it makes sense to always unblock them by default. Which in turn makes it easier for mappers to implement large scale effects like the ones you see in Shaky Grounds.

IMO it does the exact opposite

Scenario 1, the mapper leaves the blocking bit on, finds in game that it blocks the player from progressing, goes into mapster and switches it off.
Scenario 2, the mapper leaves the blocking bit on, eduke32 plays it fine, but as players load the map in other ports they find progression to be blocked.

That said, at this point you can't put the cat back in the bag. Maps already exists that rely on this behavior, and at least one port (Raze) has adopted it for the sake of compatibility.

[Ninety-Six]

Phredreeke, on 09 January 2023 - 01:46 PM, said:

but as players load the map in other ports they find progression to be blocked.

To be fair, for quite a few years there pretty much was nothing but just eDuke32.

[ck3D]

Aleks, on 09 January 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

Considering all the effectors are designed, in general, to "not exist" within the game world, it seems only natural to hard-code their blocking bit to 0. Not sure if original game did that too and it was missed iin RedNukem for some reason or if both of these didn't automatically change the effectors' blocking bits, I've always been keeping all my effectors unblocked anyway just for the sake of tidyness anyway.

I do the same - even using Eduke/Mapster32 I always make sure every effector is unblocked, since that's how base behavior functioned I'd rather take zero risk or chance. The Eduke behavior isn't an absolute either, for instance automatic shooter SE's/SE36's I recently observed (in slightly old builds) would always revert back to blocked upon activation then deactivation, even if originally set not to be, which probably is base behavior that for a while wasn't considered, spotted or tackled because it usually goes unnoticed. I'm about as paranoid about that kind of stuff as I am about Touchplates not being exactly on the ground (since when they aren't they will double up as impromptu SE 31's).

And yeah, in-game effector blocking bits remain the way you'd set them, in DOS Build/Duke.

[Merlijn]

Ninety-Six, on 09 January 2023 - 01:50 PM, said:

To be fair, for quite a few years there pretty much was nothing but just eDuke32.

I think this is the crux - for many years Eduke was the only modern port and also the most desirable one for mappers due to the expanded limits and a (somewhat) more user-friendly version of the level editor.
To the point that I (and I suspect more people) forgot that effectors being able to block the player was even a thing.

But yeah cat is out of the bag, you can't expect every mapper to 'fix' their old work to make it compatible with ports that didn't exist back then.
Still this is an interesting discussion and could warrant its own topic, I bet there are more little hickups between the ports.