[Captain Massive]

Tough map to judge since it looks like you put alot of work/time into it, but too say our building styles clash would be an understatement.

I must of missed the jokes or maybe they are on one of the monitors I could not read ( seems like the cameras got misaligned somehow ).

Blue key took me 2 days to find. ( my kids use the computer on weekends so had limited time each day, but took me maybe 2 hours in total to find it ).

The jump ledge on the canyon ridge is sloped, making jumping it beyond frustrating, since Duke won't jump for me while moving on that slope.
( took me 45min just find out thats the only way left to go as well ).

I did like few things like the

Spoiler

delayed respawn ending ( I almost used those in Moontang )

and the tree planters look nice.

Overall with a tweak here and there it could be a very nice map, despite what I jokingly refer too as a Sprite-Mare at times, but thats a style I see on alot of top maps - it clashes with my oun is all.

[X-Vector]

Just played the map and my sentiments echo those of most of the others - love the relative vastness and the sense of exploration, the music manages to create suspense; didn't like the way the level rushes you forward at the start, resulting in an irritating lack of flow due to the repetitive die/restart nature of the gameplay in that segment.
The references that are strewn throughout the level are amusing, although I imagine a lot of them will be lost to those unfamiliar with Dutch culture and HHW in particular.
It's embarrassing how long it took me to 'get' the "Doniezo Mall" one, BTW (I presume the layout is based on De Middenwaard?) and I wonder what "Emmerichville" is all about.

PS: I noticed two textures that were upside down - Sweeney & Company and San Andreas Fault.
Also, I believe that the sign "For Hire" inside the mall should read "For Rent" or "To Let".

[Merlijn]

@ Captain Massive: thanks for the feedback, it seems this simply isn't the type of map for you. Oh well, can't please 'em all.
About the camera's: must be a problem on your end because it's the first time I've heard about it. They work perfectly fine here.
The jokes are mostly found in the environment. Particular signs, books, movie posters, graffiti etc. Some of them have already been posted.

@X-Vector: wow, someone on this forum who's familiar with HHW and Middenwaard? Mind = blown!
(to the others: Middenwaard is a local shopping mall near my parent's home). Thanks for your feedback!

Quote

It's embarrassing how long it took me to 'get' the "Doniezo Mall" one, BTW (I presume the layout is based on De Middenwaard?) and I wonder what "Emmerichville" is all about.

Yes, I loosely based the mall on an actual mall (in this case the Middenwaard), awesome that you can actually pick it up.
Doeniezo Mall is a special easter egg for Dutchies, to everyone else it will just seem like a weird, exotic name. Couldn't resist adding at least one pun hehe.

Emmerichville is a nod to director Roland Emmerich, director of such classics as Independence day, '98 Godzilla, The day after tomorrow and 2012 (using the term "classic" very loosely here ).

[Robman]

Downloaded it, tried it.

It's a very well done map indeed. Must have taken a good deal of time to create. There's SOOOO many awesome Duke maps now.. some of you excellent map masters should try your hand at something alittle different for awhile *cough- Shadow Warrior.

[Paul B]

Well I gave this map a try... I was actually excited to try it after seeing the screenshots. So here's my verdict:

I died many times during the start of the map, as this style of start I wasn't accustom to. I kept looking out the window in awe watching the devastation. Then I thought... with this much detail there must be a lot of secrets around here, not realizing what was happening. Yea I died LOTS at the start! Once I figured out the objective, it was quite a ride. I had no problems finding any of the key cards and I managed to stumble forwards with seamless progression.

I played the entire map without getting a single chain gun from any enforcers which was kind of disappointing and I had found the teleport before grabbing the chain gun. I didn't realize I had unlocked the area with the Chain gun until after I had killed everyone in the map. Oops!

Anyway, the map took me exactly an hr to play and I killed all 175 enemies on Let's Rock difficulty. I found 4 out of the 5 secrets. Not sure where that last one was. The ammo and health were perfectly placed through out the map. It's very difficult to create damaged sectors that look good, well you've proven to have mastered that. The map is a masterpiece; it's a work of art, from start to finish. The detail was fantastic and I really enjoyed how the entire map unfolded. You make the player think carefully about their surroundings. I love how you strategically placed everything from the AI (some of the best AI placement since the original levels) to the buildings, secrets & swimming pools (to escape fall damage). I appreciated the jump area that divided the city, how you purposely intended for the player to jump from the second last sector instead of the sloped sector where Duke would fail to make the jump. It really made the player respect the cliffs and the dangers that lurked. The creativity was through the roof and the atmosphere was extremely immersive.

As I was playing this map, I was thinking how well this map would play in a Duke Death match environment. In my opinion, this map is one of the best classic maps of all time. I found it amazing as wide open and big as this map is the frame rate never suffered and it was very playable and enjoyable. I'm looking forward to seeing what follows! Thanks so much, for an hr well spent!

[ck3D]

i can't seem to be able to retrieve my old password over at the AMC forums so I'll just address this here while I can :

Merlijn, on 11 September 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

That ck3d map, along with the Flaming shipwreck by Quakis, are what inspired me to start mapping again.

I don't know if ck3d still has the time and motivation for more maps like that, otherwise I'm definitely up for it. Would be cool to have an entire apocalyptic episode.

the idea itself alone gets me pumped, so motivation really isn't a problem, unfortunately I have sub zero spare time to devote to Duke 3D as of now. even as far as just playing user maps & episodes - so many great stuff has been released this year, I have yet to catch up on, but spending as short as 30 mins on a video game feels like an impossible luxury. also most of the time I work on stupid macbooks now which makes it harder to run, let alone mod for the game

then again I did start a shitty "Duke is 20"-themed user map a few weeks ago (spent one hour on it, then ditched), and I did find the time to post this and even check out AMC, so there's probably some time I do have that I need to manage better if I ever want to map again... I'm still following everything... the impulse is still there

congrats on your new release... hoping to play it soon

[MetHy]

Finally got to play the map. It's great! Congrats!

I've got absolutely nothing to nitpick about.

Great layout and flow. The feeling of open-ness was spot on, just perfectly sized and laid out to feel huge but without making me lost or feel like there are too many places to choose from.

Loved the enemy placement too, whether it was the static ones in the open which were challenging and fun, and everyone knows it's really hard to do that with DN3D's gameplay in open areas; or the sequenced battles which were challenging in fun environments. I especially liked the fight on the small rooftop; but you also made me take out the RPG in the parking battle without spawning a BLord, which is rare enough to be underlined.

Probably your best map really.

I didn't have a problem with navigation but I had read this thread before playing. I don't think jumping over the huge crack was a problem, considering the 10hp sitting on top of one of the rocks as a clue.

I didn't find the chaingun either, and like Paul B, no Lizardmen dropped one. However I played on CGS and there was enough ammo to get by while still having enough weapons at your disposal for cheer fun. HP was spot on as well. Tension was slowly increasing along the map which was nice.

Edit :
Still a 2nd chaingun later on along the way would have been nice. I would have liked the expander as well, but I presume it's a secret since I found ammo for it (in another secret, only one I found).

Also I really like the visual style in this map. There is your style, but it's not overdone. It's mixed with DN3D's core texture use in a smart way and it all fits well together.

[LeoD]

Great stuff as expected! Basically everything has been said already. Looking forward to part 2.

CruX, on 10 September 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

What I didn't like: The escape sequence at the beginning

What I did like: Literally every single thing that came after the escape sequence

Probably gonna be the best user map we see this year, certainly my favorite, both for 2016 and probably of all time. Not even trying to kiss ass, I've honestly just never seen anything quite like this in DN3D. Like, I've never seen a large, sprawling urban map designed this well and I've damn sure never seen a disaster-oriented map get the sort of execution and attention to detail that this one has.

Hey, 2016 has still more than three months to go!
Although I don't like escape sequences either, I have to admit that this one isn't unfair.

Captain Massive, on 11 September 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

I must of missed the jokes or maybe they are on one of the monitors I could not read ( seems like the cameras got misaligned somehow ).

Did you play using Polymer? In many maps, especially Oostrum-built ones, camera messages may not show up due to some Z-fighting issues (can be fixed by maphacks):

Screenshots taken while HRPlaying, but that makes no difference.

[Captain Massive]

LeoD, on 14 September 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Did you play using Polymer? In many maps, especially Oostrum-built ones, camera messages may not show up due to some Z-fighting issues (can be fixed by maphacks):
polymost-camera-text.jpg polymer-camera-text.jpg
Screenshots taken while HRPlaying, but that makes no difference.

I allways play In Polymer mode, Whats a map hack? Whats a Z-fighting? I've been building maps 18-19 years now mostly total conversion work back in the day and never heard these strange terms.

I tested it in non-polymer and could read them from my loaded save, but no-go in polymer mode.

[LeoD]

Captain Massive, on 14 September 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

I allways play In Polymer mode, Whats a map hack? Whats a Z-fighting? I've been building maps 18-19 years now mostly total conversion work back in the day and never heard these strange terms.

Sometimes READMEs referring to "Classic" actually mean it, not just "don't use the HRP".
Unless you want Polymer lighting, or the HRP, or the map features TROR, you're better off using Polymost instead of Polymer as OpenGL renderer anyway.
Z-fighting describes the renderer not showing wall(floor/ceiling) aligned sprites, especially when overlapping, in the right order, not at all, or only partly from certain angles. Mostly a Polymer issue.
Maphacks are text files which patch the OpenGL rendering position of sprites in the respective map. Originally introduced during HRP development and not used elsewhere so far.
I have a feeling that Polymer Z-fighting seems to be related to the Mapster32 version used. Older maps, not only BUILD created ones, seem to be way less affected, and not just because there's less overall detail put into them.

[Captain Massive]

LeoD, on 14 September 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

Sometimes READMEs referring to "Classic" actually mean it, not just "don't use the HRP".
Unless you want Polymer lighting, or the HRP, or the map features TROR, you're better off using Polymost instead of Polymer as OpenGL renderer anyway.
Z-fighting describes the renderer not showing wall(floor/ceiling) aligned sprites, especially when overlapping, in the right order, not at all, or only partly from certain angles. Mostly a Polymer issue.
Maphacks are text files which patch the OpenGL rendering position of sprites in the respective map. Originally introduced during HRP development and not used elsewhere so far.
I have a feeling that Polymer Z-fighting seems to be related to the Mapster32 version used. Older maps, not only BUILD created ones, seem to be way less affected, and not just because there's less overall detail put into them.

Thanks I kinda-sorta grasp what that means now.

Infact I had a stubborn sprite building recently, took me awile to find a place it would not spaz out under a sliding sector, not sure if it was z-fighting, but it sure was fighting me.

[Merlijn]

Sorry about the Z-fighting thing, I haven't ran the map in Polymer (I honestly don't think my laptop could handle it..) so I didn't know it had so many trouble rendering the sprites.
The Eduke-team is working on the Z-fighting issue though, if I'm correct?
Anyway: for now, it's better to run the map in classic mode or polymost.

Again thanks for all the feedback, I'm glad you people are enjoying my map!

@Ck3D:

Quote

then again I did start a shitty "Duke is 20"-themed user map a few weeks ago (spent one hour on it, then ditched), and I did find the time to post this and even check out AMC, so there's probably some time I do have that I need to manage better if I ever want to map again... I'm still following everything... the impulse is still there

too bad to hear you have so little time, man. But as you said, the impulse is still there. So.. who knows.
All I know I loved your End of the world map, so if you ever find the time to make another map with a similar theme I'm sure it would be awesome.

@ Paul B: woah, thanks for those words. Glad you had fun.

@ Methy: I kinda agree with you on adding a 2nd chaingun, it's possible to miss the first one if you take the teleporter first and forget to go back afterwards..

Quote

Also I really like the visual style in this map. There is your style, but it's not overdone. It's mixed with DN3D's core texture use in a smart way and it all fits well together.

This is especially cool to read, since I did try to re-invent my own style a little and let some old-school DN3D slip back in.

[zykov eddy]

Simply wonderful. Can't wait for the sequel.

[Steambull]

Great to see a vanilla eDuke map drop from a veteran mapper - didn't disappoint, either.

A grand map from the very beginning. All the destroyed landscape made me think of William Gee's works, and he's the goat. It managed to be fun, memorable and visually impressive.

So yeah, the earthquake and the destruction effects were really convincing and created a nice atmosphere. They were also used well over the course of the map, so the "theme" worked. The areas were neat, with lots of design and sprite-work to admire. Some of the texture and wall sprite choices were maybe not that well matched together - just bugged me here and there. Overall the design was still solid, and really impressive considering the scale of the map. I loved the indoor shadows and the sheer amount of work put into some of the details and effects. And yes, I loved that leaning building with the rooftop entrance as a platform.

Gameplay-wise it was definitely not about shooting enemies in the distance with the pistol, but rather about discovering more carefully planned, wide areas with a variety of enemies. The Newbeasts were put into the map in a neat way, and my favorite fight was in the garage - the fast Newbeasts kept you on the move, but you also had to keep your eye on the Commanders' rockets coming from behind them, while teleporting liztroop was also playing into it nicely. The layout worked out really well, helping with the grand feel, and the map conveyed itself well with just the right amount of exploring. Will definitely stick to my mind, great work!

Played CGS, took me about 40 minutes, only 1 secret.

[Merlijn]

Thanks, Eddy and Steambull! Always nice to see some more familiar faces here.

Mikko has reviewed the map: MSDN review

BTW I'm going to upload a full playtrough of the map (including all secrets).
However, YouTube's insanely long loading times plus my lack of spare time don't match particulary well.
I hope to get it online next Sunday.

[Danukem]

Merlijn, on 20 September 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

BTW I'm going to upload a full playtrough of the map (including all secrets).
However, YouTube's insanely long loading times plus my lack of spare time don't match particulary well.
I hope to get it online next Sunday.

It sounds like you already have it saved on your computer and are just waiting for a chance to upload it. But in case you want to make a new stream of it, you can use the free version of a streaming program like Xsplit and then link it to your youtube account and it will go straight to youtube (where you can edit it later before making it public if you want).

[Merlijn]

Ok,thanks for the tip!

I've used fraps to record the video and it's indeed on my computer now.
The quality is great, but YouTube doesn't seem to like the big filesize.

[Danukem]

Merlijn, on 20 September 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Ok,thanks for the tip!

I've used fraps to record the video and it's indeed on my computer now.
The quality is great, but YouTube doesn't seem to like the big filesize.

Until recently, I had an old version of fraps myself, and the file sizes that it generated were monstrous (as in multiple gigabytes for relatively short videos). With xsplit, I'm getting good compression on saved videos, but also like I said if you just stream it directly you don't have to worry about uploading it later and it saves a lot of time. The downside is that any problems you have with your internet connection at the time of the recording will affect the video. For best results, don't go above 720p when you play (since that is the max it will record on the free version anyway), and use a hardwired line rather than wifi.

[Merlijn]

Well. I need to find a workaround for those monstrous filesizes, it took forever to load this one up.

But anyway, here's a full playtrough of Shaky Grounds, on come get some, including al secrets:

[Paul B]

Merlijn, on 26 September 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Well. I need to find a workaround for those monstrous filesizes, it took forever to load this one up.

I just recently published a video online of a demo I made of a map. After recording the video I used a free program called "Handbrake" https://handbrake.fr/ to shrink the video by adjusting the constant quality setting under the video tab from 25 to 20. Then having it resample the video. Needless to say this small change shrunk my video file from 150mb to 30 mb. You may want to give this a try as well.

Btw I watched your play through. It's nice to watch a player that knows exactly how to play the map play the map. lol It showed me the secret I missed which was in the store with the open vault. Totally missed that switch for the atomic health. Anyway, I noticed you picked up a dropped chaingun from an enforcer. You were very lucky but it would be nice if that mall also contained a chaingun.

[NightFright]

Sorry for the megabump, but since I am currently replaying the Shaky Grounds series in Rednukem:
At the very beginning of "Apocollapse", you have to crawl through a vent while the building is collapsing. Apparently (at least in RN) I am unable to crawl out of the vent into the tunnel since even when crouching, I am not able to get into the final part of the shaft after dropping down. Is this something RN does differently compared to EDuke32? (Even though I don't see why it should, tbh.) Since RN is closer to vanilla, one should assume it should rather work there than with EDuke32, at least that's what I thought.

[Merlijn]

Hi there. I've seen that complaint before, and I have no idea what's causing it. There's nothing out of the ordinary about that vent.

Perhaps Eduke lets you crawl through smaller spaces, in that case simply raising the ceiling of the vent in the editor should solve it. But then again the vent isn't abnormally small either..
Could you test and see what happens? If it doesn't work there's always DNCLIP

[Ninety-Six]

I don't know if this is it, but I remember a bug report about being able to get through places you normally aren't supposed to be able to, most notably the switch tunnel in E2L4. True vanilla behavior, apparently, doesn't let you crawl through a space if it's not touching the floor and you aren't jumping to get to it (so basically if you're crouching you can't get through a small space that has a higher floor). eduke32 changes that behavior.

I'm probably telling it wrong but it was something to that effect. Maybe unrelated; I can't remember the area in question without loading it up.

[NightFright]

All I can tell is that in EDuke32 you can get through that vent while in Rednukem you can't.

[Merlijn]

Ninety-Six, on 14 December 2022 - 09:29 AM, said:

I don't know if this is it, but I remember a bug report about being able to get through places you normally aren't supposed to be able to, most notably the switch tunnel in E2L4. True vanilla behavior, apparently, doesn't let you crawl through a space if it's not touching the floor and you aren't jumping to get to it (so basically if you're crouching you can't get through a small space that has a higher floor). eduke32 changes that behavior.

I'm probably telling it wrong but it was something to that effect. Maybe unrelated; I can't remember the area in question without loading it up.

The vent in question is touching the floor, so that's definitely not it. I can only think of 2 options:
1. the sector in question is triggered to collapse as soon as you enter it, which doesn't cause problems Eduke but maybe it does in Rednukem?
2. It's simply too small.

@ NightFright: I attached a version where the vent sector is made taller, maybe you could check if it still blocks you in rednukem?
I don't have rednukem installed myself.

Attached File(s)

•  SG1VENT.zip (270.15K)
  Number of downloads: 139

[NightFright]

Finally I found some time to test the adjusted map with latest RN snapshot. Unfortunately, it is still not possible to pass through that vent in the beginning. Dunno if it got any better compared to the original map, but ultimately it's the same result, I'm afraid.

[Phredreeke]

Quoting the relevant post from the Raze bug forum

Quote

The problem in this map is that there's a "masterswitch" sprite placed in the lower vent sector, which has cstat 1 set, i.e. it is set to blocking.
This means that the player lands on the sprite and is raised high enough to not be able to crouch through the vent.

eduke32 appears to be the only port that unsets the blocking stat on these types of sprites on level load. GDX, Raze and Rednukem all preserve the original behavior.

Can't you unset the cstat bit on the switch?

[NightFright]

My question is: Was there any specific reason why it was done like that? Maybe to prevent falling damage? To me it doesn't look like anything special that shouldn't be possible in any port.

[Merlijn]

No, the masterswitch is simply there to activate the falling ceiling once the player hits a certain touchplate. It doesn't make a difference in-game in Eduke, and I assumed it was standard behavior for the masterswitch to not interfere with the player movement in-game. Because why should it? IMO Eduke has it right in this case, there's no reason for the masterswitch to block the player in-game. It's only there to set off an effect and invisible to the player anyway.

In any case, here's a version with the masterswitch unblocked, could you check if that fixes it?

Attached File(s)

•  SG1VENT.zip (270.15K)
  Number of downloads: 126

[NightFright]

This one works in Rednukem, thanks! If it doesn't have any consequences in EDuke32 as well, I would actually use this version in the Addon Compilation, provided you don't mind.