[Jimmy]

I find the biggest disappointment is the lack of MIDIs for the new music.

[NightFright]

Lee gave the reason why he decided to put MIDI aside for World Tour. It's a deprecated format and sounds differently on every computer, depending on the playback device/soundfont/etc. If you want it to sound the way intended by the composer, music files need to be "fixed". I guess MIDIs would have been nice to have, but Lee already wrote he doesn't work with that format any more.

[Steve 64]

How the lawsuit going on, I haven't heard anything about it.

[Jimmy]

That reasoning sounds super made up, but okay.

[MusicallyInspired]

No, it isn't. It would take just as much work to redesign those tracks to scale them down to the General MIDI standard .MID file format (128 instruments and only 16 channels with zero effects) as it did to write them with all his new fancy hardware and instrument/effect software plugins in the first place. It's a lot of work believe it or not. Why go through twice the amount of work?

[Phredreeke]

What would be the point? The new episode won't run in DOS Duke, and any source port capable of running it already has OGG support.

[MusicallyInspired]

It would be a neat thing to have in my collection. But I'd never realistically use it.

[necroslut]

 Phredreeke, on 05 May 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:

What would be the point? The new episode won't run in DOS Duke, and any source port capable of running it already has OGG support.

For one, with the recent addition of soundblaster emulation to EDuke32 it could be used to play with various soundfonts, matching the sound of the original's music.

[MusicallyInspired]

A neat little oddity. But not worth Lee's time.

[Jimmy]

They don't sound anymore advanced than the rest of the Duke soundtrack.

[MusicallyInspired]

It simply isn't true.

[FistMarine]

I have finally went through the 20th Anniversary World Tour edition and I have done only the first episode so far (on Let's Rock, to compensate for the awful mouse controls) as I said on another topic and I'm glad I went to replay original episodes (before hopping into the new episode) because all the original 4 episodes were updated in the WT edition. With that said, I have to confess that I didn't actually buy WT and got it from other sources (sadly all I could find is the initial 1.0 release with the sound issues) as I already own the original Kill a Ton Collection CDs (and also the Plutonium PAK CD, which was a bonus that came with the Kill a Ton purchase on eBay, so I have all 3 original versions of the game) and there is no point to waste $20 for a game I already own multiple times and I even used to own GOG version and Megaton Edition (both of which I got free, GOG when was free for 2 days at end of 2012 and Megaton I got as gift from someone) but I no longer have my GOG/Steam accounts because there wasn't anything significant I had on GOG and I no longer wanted to use Steam (I don't care for the fact I no longer own Megaton, I already own the expansions in physical format too) and sorry but Randy won't have my money, especially with all the bullshit going around and the fact that they are sitting on the Duke IP and doing nothing with it, I mean seriously I wish 3D Realms would get back the Duke IP (even though I admit I also don't like the new 3D Realms that much) so then we would see proper remasters of Duke3D (like that cancelled Hail to the King Collection, that was going to be the best version of the game but sadly Gearbox didn't allow that to happen, it was too good to be true) and maybe even a new Duke game, which we know Gearbox isn't capable of that.

Back to World Tour, I got issues with the port as everyone has mentioned before. I actually got even more issues! First time I started game, it asked for a dll file xinput1_3.dll, I searched for that file and downloaded it (the 64-bit version), put it into the game's directory, then it gave error, despite the fact I am using Windows 10 64-bit on my laptop. I then downloaded the 32-bit version of that dll file and THEN it worked. I started the game, I hear sounds in the gearbox intro cutscene, then instead of hearing muffled sounds, I got NO sounds at all! Whether in menu or game and even after setting volume and music to maximum, there are no sounds at all! So I get to play through the first episode like this! No music and no sounds! Great! I can't even hear the developer commentary which I was hoping to make use of that feature.

I will admit I did like the fact that the maps were slightly updated, for example other than the pointless developer commentary icons all over the map (why didn't they just add an extra option in menu and behind the scenes stuff, probably as bonus after finishing the game?), I spotted an added switch in E1L1 on the cinema room. Probably if you happen to get trapped in the curtains, which never happened to me.

I got a weird crash in Toxic Dump when I went back to find the missing enemy. The game then showed an error "Executed code: unknown" or "Expected code: unknown" or something like that. Other than that, I had no other crashes.

A shame this is a rushed and sloppy port. I really liked the new menu interface (like those animated lights in menus!), various changes in some maps (I hope someone will document all maps differences on TCRF) and the fact it comes with new content. With that said, I don't like that it lacks expansions and all these issues that just ruin this port, which I heard it was made by Nerve Software if I'm not mistaken (the guys behind the amazing No Rest For The Living mapset for Doom 2). Megaton may have had more content than World Tour but it didn't have any new content (although having the expansions released in a single package was pretty sweet) and the Megaton port wasn't that great anyway, especially when it was first launched back in 2013, I even remember lurking at that time on the forum and reading all the comments when Megaton was released. In the end, both megaton and WT ports pale in comparison to EDuke32 which is what I'd use if I want a modern Duke3D experience!

I will go and do the rest episodes and hopefully I can finally play episode 5 after all these years! I heard recently that EDuke32 finally supports episode 5! Is this true? Because I'd like in future when I will replay E5, I will use EDuke32!

[Phredreeke]

Uh... I don't think you get to complain about crashes and missing DLLs when you run a pirated version

[NightFright]

You can run WT in its entirety (old episodes + Alien World Order) in EDuke32 by now. Polymer is needed for the enhanced lighting and normalmaps.

[NNC]

It makes zero sense to play World Tour if you don't want to play episode 5. There are much better ports for the original 4 episodes.

[Tea Monster]

 MusicallyInspired, on 05 May 2020 - 08:55 AM, said:

No, it isn't. It would take just as much work to redesign those tracks to scale them down to the General MIDI standard .MID file format (128 instruments and only 16 channels with zero effects) as it did to write them with all his new fancy hardware and instrument/effect software plugins in the first place. It's a lot of work believe it or not. Why go through twice the amount of work?

Especially as they are not paying musicians at the moment. Fuck doing any extra work for those corporate deadbeats.

[Outtagum]

 RunningDuke, on 16 July 2020 - 02:40 AM, said:

Randy won't have my money, especially with all the bullshit going around and the fact that they are sitting on the Duke IP and doing nothing with it

Since DNF's release, Shadow Warrior was rebooted and got TWO sequels.

[FistMarine]

 Phredreeke, on 16 July 2020 - 04:49 AM, said:

Uh... I don't think you get to complain about crashes and missing DLLs when you run a pirated version

It must be my laptop then because in past I remember trying this at my Windows 7 PC at home and I don't remember running into missing DLLs or no sounds playing at all. The missing dll and crashes were the least worrying part, the biggest problems are the missing sounds and music. And like I said there is no point to buy it when I already have multiple copies of Duke3D and there are so many high quality maps and mods available all for free, I mean sure I would have wanted to support the work Lee Jackson, Richard Gray Levelord and Allen Blum did with 5th episode but since it is published by Gearbox and it is overpriced, it is another reason to not buy it. World Tour should have been released for free for those who owned Megaton at least. I'm pretty sure most people agree with me here. I mean I know I'm 4 YEARS late to play WT but after I finish all episodes with this port, I won't go back to WT unless I play E5 in EDuke32.

 NightFright, on 16 July 2020 - 06:27 AM, said:

You can run WT in its entirety (old episodes + Alien World Order) in EDuke32 by now. Polymer is needed for the enhanced lighting and normalmaps.

That's pretty sweet. Does it still require the stopgap compatibility build or it is entirely integrated into EDuke32 now?

 The Watchtower, on 16 July 2020 - 11:10 AM, said:

It makes zero sense to play World Tour if you don't want to play episode 5. There are much better ports for the original 4 episodes.

I never said I don't want to play E5. I said I'm playing all the episodes in order because I want to see the changes they did in the original 4 episodes. I mean stuff like that switch added in Hollywood Holocaust, the added secret with the accessible secret exit in The Abyss, the fact Faces of Death can be finished now (although it leads to the start of The Abyss, should have made a separate map with the last part of The Abyss only when you choose to complete the secret level) and so on. I know most maps have minor changes like those lights added and developer commentary icons all over the map. I don't see what's so bad, speaking as someone who finished Duke3D as kid at least 10 times and even finished the Atomic Edition at least 5 times in all these years. I usually play versions 1.3D and 1.5 in DOSBox when replaying the original episodes. This time I made an exception to play with this new port to see the changes they did! Yeah, maybe I should have waited until I finished all episodes before making this post but thing is I wanted to post my first impressions so far.

 Outtagum, on 16 July 2020 - 02:45 PM, said:

Since DNF's release, Shadow Warrior was rebooted and got TWO sequels.

I know. That's very unexpected to see a franchise no one thought of getting resurrected and got 3 new games in a single decade! We all wish Duke Nukem comes back someday but sadly it is time to accept the fact that this will not be possible with Gearbox owning the Duke IP, not until someone else buys the IP. I really wish someone competent bought the IP and treated it with care, then we would see a proper remaster of Duke3D (which I still hope to see someday, I really want to imagine an addons system getting added with picking the best community works as official addons like the recent Bethesda/Unity Doom ports) and even a new game to return Duke to the present world, much like the Wolfenstein/Doom/Shadow Warrior reboots.

[Tekedon]

 NightFright, on 16 July 2020 - 06:27 AM, said:

You can run WT in its entirety (old episodes + Alien World Order) in EDuke32 by now. Polymer is needed for the enhanced lighting and normalmaps.

How do you run it? I have the WT grp file and the latest eduke32, the fifth episode does not show up.

*NWM figured it out

[NightFright]

Stopgap is still required, however IIRC the goal is still to make it completely unnecessary at some point.

[NNC]

The Abyss is one of the great examples why this port sucks. Not just the fucked up secret exit that screwed the progression, but also the unfixed sound interruption issue which rapes your ears with the multiple alien ambience sounds. Typical Randy quality.

[FistMarine]

 The Watchtower, on 17 July 2020 - 11:06 AM, said:

The Abyss is one of the great examples why this port sucks. Not just the fucked up secret exit that screwed the progression, but also the unfixed sound interruption issue which rapes your ears with the multiple alien ambience sounds. Typical Randy quality.

I agree. They chose the laziest way possible to handle the newly added secret exit (or rather the modified existing exit, considering the hidden nuke button has always been there, just inaccessible and only leading you to the next level if you press it). All they had to do was make a new separate map (using existing The Abyss as a base) just containing the last rooms (after dropping down the hole) instead of having to replay the whole map from beginning. If I'm not mistaken Duke Nukem 64 already does that (with the ending parts of Abyss and Overlord as separate levels).
And no I haven't noticed the sounds issue as I've got no sounds at all, so I don't know if I should consider myself lucky to have NO SOUND at all when playing this shitty version (instead of hearing muffled/distorted sounds). As you said, typical Randy quality.

Oh and also decided to torture myself with playing E2 in this port, again on Let's Rock. You can already tell the experiences I've had and the level that gave me most trouble (ONE DEATH AND TWO FUCKING CRASHES!). Yep, you guessed it right! Lunar Reactor! The first crash happened literally after I went to that room (after rotating gear) with the two enforcers and the red card (yes I know the red card isn't required to finish the level but I still had to kill these enemies and find the secret you can find in this room) and just as I was about to save after clearing this room, game crashed! With the error "Expecting: Code Unknown" or whatever the error said. Started the game again, reloaded save (thankfully didn't lose too much progress as I save often), went through that thing again, then when I was going back with the red card, I somehow got crushed by that gear (have no idea how I managed to squish myself, haven't died to this thing in past 5+ years, so I must have gotten lucky in past years considering it is COMPLETELY RANDOM if this thing squishes you or not). Thankfully I could go back in action thanks to that rewind feature. After that, I continued with the level. Later in level, got another crash. I have to wonder whether it's because my laptop can't handle this port or it's because Randy's dirty hands touched this port which automatically infected it with glitches and shit like this one! Eventually I have finished the level and very annoyed because all this shit happened which ruined my mood, I even went back to test the rotating gear as bonus (to see how exactly you get squished), yep you only get squished if you are running in the opposite direction it pushes you, so if you are running into the direction it pushes you or even stand still, you should be fine. Looks like I learned something new.

Aside from crashes, slowdowns and the various glitches I've had, I noticed that there were some things changed in regards to the kill counter. The eggs no longer count as kills, nor do they add kills (if I'm not mistaken in vanilla Duke3D, the eggs weren't counted as enemies but they still added to kill count, which inflated the killed enemies amount), which means you MUST kill everyone in level to get credited all kills, so this seems like a good bug fix they did. Unfortunately there are two other things that can still screw up the kill counter:
-Killing an enemy normally (with the hitscan weapons or with your mighty foot) and having its corpse squished by a door or wall will result in another kill. This is something that someone found years ago on these forums and apparently it helps with the missing non-existent enemy in Red Light District (the supposedly spawned RECON), I forgot if I still had a missing enemy in E1L2 on this port when I played a week ago. This "extra kill" glitch (which is similar to the glitch in Doom 2 were resurrected enemies by Archvile will count as extra kills and give you over 100% kills) may also help with the other problem I've had:
-Sometimes, it is possible to have an enemy missing in the level. I got an enemy missing twice in Tiberius Station (yes I've played through the level twice and still encountered the problem). Have no idea where it was (and what enemy it was) as I checked every single room. In DOS Duke3D this was never a problem as killing eggs counted for more kills which means you could miss enemies and STILL have 0 enemies missed at end of level. I don't think the skill level had to do. Instead I think the slimers eating live monsters may have caused this bug, as I noticed in Dark Side near end of level with the room that contains spacesuits, there is an enforcer with 4 slimers. I let the slimers eat him, then killed slimers and looked at the kill counter. Had 123 enemies killed. Then I loaded the save, killed the enforcer and slimers and had 124 kills. The total kill counter HASN'T CHANGED AT ALL BTW! When I finished the level I had all kills, so if I were to continue with the enforcer eaten. I would have one missing enemy again.

To put it simply, I had one enemy missing in Tiberius Station (probably because of an enemy getting eaten) and in Lunar Reactor I had two more enemies killed than what the counter showed (example 102/100 kills) because of those trooper corpses that got squished by those collapsing walls, resulting in extra kills. Also happened in Occupied Territory when I killed an enforcer (the one that sits on that slope before the room that contains the first Mini Battlelords) with shotgun, its corpse got pushed behind door which caused a SQUISH and it resulted in two kills.
The total kill counter is only updated from enemies that spawn.

I would like to ask if anyone knows more technical details about that because I know I'm missing something. I know years ago when I played user maps in EDuke32, I noticed how when a slimer eats an enemy, it deducts both from the current kills and total kills, so maybe this was changed in EDuke32? Also if an enemy gets hit by a moving train/car/whatever, then it is removed from game and doesn't add to kills at all (meaning you can have missing kills because of that). I will have to create a test map (involving slimers and a couple of different live monsters) and test in various ports, including original DOS versions. Then I will figure out differences between ports.

As bonus, I have a screenshot of WT where I noticed that brick wall texture in Dark Side, surprised to see this oddity still wasn't fixed. I guess it is a memory bug because the same bug happened sometimes in DOS versions and the map appears fine when viewed in Mapster.

[High Treason]

I think the nextwall and nextsector members are incorrect for that wall - it should display tile 369 and has a forcefield overtile (230) set. Or something like that. I think it used to be a red wall, a window where you could look out at the building in the crater.

Don't take my word for it on this, I can't look at it right now and only have a vague memory of there being somethng along those lines being funky with that wall, it could be something else entirely as it was a long time ago that I prodded that map around.

[Smikes]

 High Treason, on 23 July 2020 - 03:05 AM, said:

I think the nextwall and nextsector members are incorrect for that wall - it should display tile 369 and has a forcefield overtile (230) set. Or something like that. I think it used to be a red wall, a window where you could look out at the building in the crater.

Don't take my word for it on this, I can't look at it right now and only have a vague memory of there being somethng along those lines being funky with that wall, it could be something else entirely as it was a long time ago that I prodded that map around.

Interesting. You're right. The prototype map shows there used to be a wall with windows there. I've never noticed anything with the wall texture though. I just checked in WT, and it looks fine in my game. I don't see the brick texture.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[High Treason]

Well now I'm not happy, as it seems the nextwall/sector is correct. Also I haven't been able to trigger the Tile 0 thing in ether EDuke32 or DOS (1.3 or 1.5), though I know I've seen it many times. I don't think WT dumps a DEBUG.MAP when you enter DNDEBUG, though if it does, or if someone runs into the Tile 0 thing in EDuke32, could they maybe type in DNDEBUG and post the resulting DEBUG.MAP? I'd like to get to the bottom of this oddity once and for all. Peculiar how bullet holes don't appear in that wall either, though I assume this has something to do with the overtile.

There are a few things that can be done to have a wall change its tile when the game is running, but they're very limited (not really useful) and I've never seen it result in Tile 0. I almost thought for a while that maybe something was 'operating' tag 0 and causing weird things to happen with the forcefield, but it seems not to be the case and the cstat never changes to suggest something 'operated' the wall. I wondered if projectiles would cause it, but nothing changes for that either. Wondered if some kind of texture limit was reached, perhaps from breaking lights and causing more textures to load, but it seems not so and I'd not expect it to affect a wall in the middle so much as one at either end of the array.
Indeed my efforts so far are fruitless;


Perhaps the wall is shy and won't do it when I'm looking. With a DEBUG.MAP of it in the broken state, it should be possible to compare such things and see what changed, then maybe backtrack from there to figure out what made such values change - of course they might not change, still, which would be very confusing, or else they will but it will still be impossible to reverse-engineer what is going on, or else it'll appear fine in the editor, but it would be fun to at least try.

Obviously I shall report back if I manage to get the map into this state myself.

[NNC]

 Smikes, on 23 July 2020 - 03:27 PM, said:

Interesting. You're right. The prototype map shows there used to be a wall with windows there. I've never noticed anything with the wall texture though. I just checked in WT, and it looks fine in my game. I don't see the brick texture.

OFF topic: I wish one day someone will leak all these beta stuff available. I would love to see these scrapped areas, especially in episode 3, which reportedly had much bigger levels in the case of Rabid Transit, Flood Zone, LA Rumble, Hotel Hell etc.... just imagine Sewer in the final version, most of it's stunning leveldesign would have went into the drain for framerate reasons.

By this time what the hell can we lose by these leaks?

[Radar]

The careers of the 'leakers' and potential legal action against them? Everyone knows who they are.

[Jimmy]

It's truly a shame.

[MusicallyInspired]

And we were so close to getting it all. But they had to try and poke the bear and make a dumb top down Duke shooter.

[High Treason]

I prefer not to rule out the possibility of a "break-in" or "trojan horse" or even a "hack" happening (or that "already happened" and nobody noticed) to cause a "leak" that was "beyond the control" of anyone. You seriously mean to tell me the gas man doesn't rummage in your things when you aren't looking?


Of course it'd be much easier if Randall just admitted he didn't care about the IP and let everyone have at these things, although this could easily start leading into copyright related rants that I'd sooner not go into. One does have to wonder what the consequences would be if Gearbox ran out of coins and filed for bankruptcy, what would they even be able to do about a leak in the time before someone else got their hands on the IP? Maybe 3D Realms has been playing 4D chess all along by running up continual court costs for Gearbox so they won't be able to afford a further case when these things leak to the public. Somehow I doubt it, but one can dream.