[PsychoGoatee]

Definitely love that Alien World Order episode, terrific maps. On the aiming, for me turning off vsync (didn't see it in the menu so did it via Nvidia) makes the mouse aiming much faster and more responsive, and I also use RivaTuner Statistics Server to limit the FPS to 120 or something, so it's not at 500+ FPS like it is without it. That makes it feel pretty good to me.

[necroslut]

Poorchop, on 13 January 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

[...]
I've just been trying to get used to the mouse look in preparation of playing the fifth episode. In spite of all this release's shortcomings, I'm stoked that some of the original mappers got together to release new content. That's also how I felt when I read that Romero was releasing new Doom maps not too long ago, which ended being extremely good. I just don't understand why the fundamental issues and bugs aren't patched - give us standard options like being able to bind mouse thumb buttons and let us disable the disgusting new mouse wheel system. The regression in these areas makes no sense.

The mouse scroll system makes sense if you thin of it as being intended for controllers, which don't have number keys for weapon switching. Since weapon "scrolling" is so slow in regular Duke 3D it was changed in order to actually be able to go from shotgun to shrinker without it taking five seconds. Of course, EDuke32 "fixed" it in a different way by allowing you to quickly switch out weapons that hadn't been fully raised yet, allowing you to go through them much quicker.

[Micky C]

Poorchop, on 13 January 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

I don't understand why a game from 1996 is having any performance issues in 2018.

Poorly-optimized renderer. The game slowed down noticeably for me when viewing the full outside area of Golden Carnage, and even then they were kind of cheating by using a draw distance.

Poorchop, on 13 January 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

I just don't understand why the fundamental issues and bugs aren't patched

It's quite simple really; patching the game requires financial investment for almost zero return. From a purely economic perspective it's a terrible business decision, at least in the short term. Customer satisfaction and its impact on future sales would be their biggest issue, and that's likely relatively minor.

[Fox]

Not long after the game was released, I made these new sprites for the flamethrower. TX sent them as a courtesy to Nerve, they said they would add them, but World Tour didn't get any update.

[necroslut]

I can understand not wanting to shell out for patches on consoles, with the price tag they have on that, but I think they should at least've put out a patch for PC.

[zwieback]

necroslut, on 14 January 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

I can understand not wanting to shell out for patches on consoles, with the price tag they have on that, but I think they should at least've put out a patch for PC.

yes, but then you have the console people raging around

[Micky C]

necroslut, on 14 January 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

I can understand not wanting to shell out for patches on consoles, with the price tag they have on that, but I think they should at least've put out a patch for PC.

Is there a particular reason the console companies charge for updates? Seems to promote the idea of having buggy software on their platform which can’t be good for business. Sure, it promotes the notion of ‘getting it right the first time’, but we know that’s never going to happen with software.

[Phredreeke]

I think it's cause patches on Xbox One and PS4 have to go through Microsoft and Sony's QA process before they're committed.

[Hank]

MS (and I'm guessing Sony) charges nothing extra for an update/ patch, but you (developer) need to create one, and it has to pass certification, and this work costs something.
At least this how I interpreted necroslut's post.

[necroslut]

Micky C, on 14 January 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

Is there a particular reason the console companies charge for updates? Seems to promote the idea of having buggy software on their platform which can’t be good for business. Sure, it promotes the notion of ‘getting it right the first time’, but we know that’s never going to happen with software.

Phredreeke, on 14 January 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

I think it's cause patches on Xbox One and PS4 have to go through Microsoft and Sony's QA process before they're committed.

Hank, on 14 January 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

MS (and I'm guessing Sony) charges nothing extra for an update/ patch, but you (developer) need to create one, and it has to pass certification, and this work costs something.
At least this how I interpreted necroslut's post.

Actually when I think about it, I think they changed this a couple of years ago or so... but IIRC it used to cost devs tens of thousands of dollars to release a patch. Why? Because it was easy money, I suppose. And the mentioned QA. And yes, it was heavily criticized because it made smaller devs skip patching.

zwieback, on 14 January 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

yes, but then you have the console people raging around

You're right, that probably wouldn't sit well.

[Fox]

If you own a console, you deserve to suffer.

[Never Forgotten]

Fox, on 15 January 2018 - 04:53 PM, said:

If you own a console, you deserve to suffer.

I own a console... I also own a PC, and old sucky PC that can't even play Duke 3D properly.

[Fox]

[Poorchop]

necroslut, on 13 January 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:

The mouse scroll system makes sense if you thin of it as being intended for controllers, which don't have number keys for weapon switching. Since weapon "scrolling" is so slow in regular Duke 3D it was changed in order to actually be able to go from shotgun to shrinker without it taking five seconds.

This game shouldn't revolve around console players. Duke 3D was originally released for PCs when it came out. Consoles were an afterthought. I think most people would opt to play first person shooters on a PC if it were possible. I've watched people play World Tour on console and they couldn't aim. The weapon wheel thing should be an option at the very least. If you're on console, then leave it enabled. For PC players, let us turn it off.

The complete disregard for PC players goes beyond this. Just look at all the options from Megaton that were removed. We can't disable vsync or bind mouse thumb buttons anymore. If they're gonna jack up the price considerably, then the least they could do is put in a little effort to meet the bare minimum standard for a release.

Micky C, on 14 January 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

It's quite simple really; patching the game requires financial investment for almost zero return. From a purely economic perspective it's a terrible business decision, at least in the short term. Customer satisfaction and its impact on future sales would be their biggest issue, and that's likely relatively minor.

Even some ancient games that I own still get patched by developers. The Serious Sam classic games on Steam just got patched by Croteam a few days ago. It really is in Gearbox's best interest to fix this mess because they completely lost me as a customer, and I doubt that I'm alone.

The more I play, the more issues I keep encountering. Sound is buggy - when breaking trash cans, the sound cuts out early. Pig cop eyes and kamikaze drone lights aren't visible in the dark anymore, so I can't even see the drones coming at me in many levels now. When we have a perfect port in eduke, there's no excuse for the mess that is the Wolrd Tour port.

[MusicallyInspired]

Does the Tandy Color Computer 3 count as a console? I have two...

What about exclusives? What about if you own that Eagle control thing that lets you play FPS's on the PS3 with a mouse and keyboard?

[necroslut]

Poorchop, on 15 January 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

This game shouldn't revolve around console players. Duke 3D was originally released for PCs when it came out. Consoles were an afterthought. I think most people would opt to play first person shooters on a PC if it were possible. I've watched people play World Tour on console and they couldn't aim. The weapon wheel thing should be an option at the very least. If you're on console, then leave it enabled. For PC players, let us turn it off.

The complete disregard for PC players goes beyond this. Just look at all the options from Megaton that were removed. We can't disable vsync or bind mouse thumb buttons anymore. If they're gonna jack up the price considerably, then the least they could do is put in a little effort to meet the bare minimum standard for a release.



Even some ancient games that I own still get patched by developers. The Serious Sam classic games on Steam just got patched by Croteam a few days ago. It really is in Gearbox's best interest to fix this mess because they completely lost me as a customer, and I doubt that I'm alone.

The more I play, the more issues I keep encountering. Sound is buggy - when breaking trash cans, the sound cuts out early. Pig cop eyes and kamikaze drone lights aren't visible in the dark anymore, so I can't even see the drones coming at me in many levels now. When we have a perfect port in eduke, there's no excuse for the mess that is the Wolrd Tour port.

I'm not arguing with you there. Duke 3D, unlike say Doom, doesn't even play very well with a controller; it's too complicated, fast-paced and unforgiving. But it seems quite apparent to me that World Tour is a console-focused release, and seeing it as such will make some design choices more understandable. Doesn't mean you have to agree with or like it, but at least some of it will then make sense.

And yes, the new renderer has several issues, such as lack of fullbrights.

[Phredreeke]

Sure, the weapon wheel makes sense for a console release. Doesn't mean they couldn't have "fast switching" as an option for keyboard and mouse play.

[axl]

I even bought World Tour for the PS4 so I would have a physical copy of the game. And while a weapon wheel does indeed makes sense on a console, the way it is actually implemented on these console versions is terrible and way too slow and unresponsive.

[MusicallyInspired]

Finally got around to playing this. I really enjoyed the new episode. Makes me want to play more. I also noticed that the main melody of the theme that plays in the Golden Gate Bridge level is the first part of the synth solo section on Lee Jackson's extended Grabbag track. Neat.

[Lunick]

The game was removed from purchase on Steam as of 4 hours ago:

[Mike Norvak]

What does that mean?

[Lunick]

You currently can't buy the game on Steam.

[jet_nick]

WTF????

[Fantinaikos]

[Lunick]

Further inspection, it seems like they might be gearing up to rerelease the game or release an update. There is a branch of the game that was updated a day ago

Also if you're desperate, you can still purchase the game via this link http://store.steampo....com/sub/90500/

[Micky C]

But why take it off the store for that?

[Steve 64]

They better not rerelease the game and make me pay for it, I already own like 3 of them I don't need another.

[Lunick]

Micky C, on 30 January 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

But why take it off the store for that?

[KaijuTurtle]

Hail to the king edition incoming


:^)

[MusicallyInspired]

Wow. I'm glad I bought it over Christmas.

Also, I don't know if this is related but I noticed today when I was trying to unlock the "step on 40 enemies after shrinking them" achievement that the counter wasn't going up no matter how many enemies I was stepping on. I was about to ask about it and see if it was a known issue...