[Hendricks266]

Zummone, on 08 September 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

I legitimately feel sorry for Nukey if he ever went through the trouble of reverse-engineering the game for you guys, because I distinctly remember accessing all of them (including Duke's voice, they were all definitely 11KHz) by simply scanning the .PMP files using PSound (I don't even think it was the most recent 2.00 version, but if it was maybe you should try that).

As I already mentioned, I spent a bunch of time reverse-engineering PSound and found that it was essentially a hack that got lucky. IIRC, there is at least one sound that PSound did not catch. We needed Nukey to confirm not just that we had all of the sounds, but also to find what their proper sample rate is, and also (IIRC) what their internal ID number is.

This is why we asked Nukey to reverse engineer the ART tiles from Duke 64 instead of relying on emulator rips: to make sure that we had the most untouched and correct set of data as possible. In that case, we gained valuable information about how the images themselves stretch to non-square pixel ratios, and the x/yoffsets of the ART as well.

Fox could confirm this better than I can. The details are fuzzy.

[----]

fuegerstef, on 08 September 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Valve didn't want that. Sierra wanted them to do so. Later that character had been established.

Ah, OK, I remebered it wrong. Probably rermembered "marketing people" as "publisher"

But as you can see, there were internal wars about the box art. And Doug was the marketing guy (not a dev). The devs didn't want a hero on the box (hence the "cover wars" mentioned in the article).

[Fox]

Hendricks266, on 08 September 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

As I already mentioned, I spent a bunch of time reverse-engineering PSound and found that it was essentially a hack that got lucky. IIRC, there is at least one sound that PSound did not catch. We needed Nukey to confirm not just that we had all of the sounds, but also to find what their proper sample rate is, and also (IIRC) what their internal ID number is.

There were several sound files PSound missed. The program is simply not reliable.

[Zummone]

Hendricks266, on 08 September 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

As I already mentioned, I spent a bunch of time reverse-engineering PSound and found that it was essentially a hack that got lucky. IIRC, there is at least one sound that PSound did not catch. We needed Nukey to confirm not just that we had all of the sounds, but also to find what their proper sample rate is, and also (IIRC) what their internal ID number is.

Of course you couldn't have got the ID number and various metadata or the euclidean proof you extracted all the files just by relying on PSound, and I see why you would want to be sure you exactly got every bit of available data (especially when doing so from the source files, with no uncompressed RAM helping you out), but I'll be honest from as far as I can reach.

I'm looking at the PMP file with an hex editor right now, I've learned to basically tell VAG patterns when I see them. Each VAG file is comprised of 16 byte chunks in which the second byte is almost always 00h, and it looks like it's communicating the final chunk by writing 01h in its place (these are the loop bits, and all 00h/01h usually means it ain't looping). After that there's a full 16byte chunk of 00h, as VAGs always require them as a kickstart.

On the other hand there are sound files which those second bytes comprise mostly of 02h and that respectively communicate loop start and end by writing 06h and 03h. I have separated some of those and saved them and they all sound perfect when scanned by PSound. They're all basically stored one after another in a sequential uninterrupted way and don't really look like they would be much of a trouble. I assume there must be a header somewhere else, but Nukey and Fox are much more knowledgeable than me since they actually took the time to reverse engineer the game itself. Sorry if it seems like spitting on your three days of reverse-engineering, I was just making sure most of the sounds didn't have complex storing algorithms or anything like that. Please don't spank me.

Fox, on 08 September 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

There were several sound files PSound missed. The program is simply not reliable.

I see, that sucks. Which ones? I'm curious, did they have any peculiar qualities that would make them elude the ADPCM section of the PMP? I was also trying to reverse-engineer TM's map format back in 2012, but after a while I just quit. Fortunately you guys picked it back up.

By the way, I tried to download DN64's mod a while ago but it all went 404. Did you put them up again or are you incapable of doing so because of legal issues? Just asking.

[Micky C]

They were planning a more professional release that was going to be included in the (now-cancelled?) Hail to the King Edition on Android and iOS. The mod was going to be released for free afterwards. However given the current state of things I'm not sure what's happening. We don't know how Gearbox (who now owns the complete franchise) would react to it as opposed to 3DR.

[Fox]

Zummone, on 08 September 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

I see, that sucks. Which ones? I'm curious, did they have any peculiar qualities that would make them elude the ADPCM section of the PMP? I was also trying to reverse-engineer TM's map format back in 2012, but after a while I just quit. Fortunately you guys picked it back up.

I can't really tell what sounds were missing or the reason. Naturally as I was working on the mod, that many sounds were not extracted by the program is just something that I noticed. But I have zero technical knowledge on the area.

Zummone, on 08 September 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

By the way, I tried to download DN64's mod a while ago but it all went 404. Did you put them up again or are you incapable of doing so because of legal issues? Just asking.

I got tired of managing a website, so now everything is on ModDB.

Micky C, on 08 September 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

They were planning a more professional release that was going to be included in the (now-cancelled?) Hail to the King Edition on Android and iOS. The mod was going to be released for free afterwards. However given the current state of things I'm not sure what's happening. We don't know how Gearbox (who now owns the complete franchise) would react to it as opposed to 3DR.

The first reason for it to be taking so long is that I decided to be perfectionist regarding the mod, and I didn't predict how much work it would take. The second reason is that I need a few more features in Eduke32, but Hendricks is having a bad year.

As long as I make it mandatory to include DUKE3D.GRP, Gearbox probably won't care. At this point it wouldn't be necessary since I have all the maps, graphics and sounds from the ROM. And HTTKC is cancelled.

[Zummone]

Thanks for clearing things up. I recall TerminX talking in optimistic terms when definitive proof of Scott's invalid license came about and he had a more thorough talk with Gearbox. Something that wouldn't have condemned the eventual release at least. I hope it all works good after World Tour's release and he can get the best deal out of it for all the work and passion you guys have been committing.

Also, GOG dropping another legit Atomic GRP for grabs, so you don't have to touch grey areas on internet forums.

[PsychoGoatee]

I know you mentioned not having a CD drive, but for anybody who does, could buy a Duke 3D Atomic CD very easily, on amazon.com etc. A lot of people have talked about this like Duke 3D classic might be disappearing, it'll always have a zillion legit copies out circulating.

But I bet Gearbox will let the classic Dosbox version of Duke 3D be sold again in the future, at the moment they want focus on World Tour, so they want it to seem like the only version around.

[Zummone]

Basically every computer I had sporting a CD/DVD drive got busted in a way or another so I'm left with a less than stellar netbook. But I wouldn't personally be against picking up the necessary files from elsewhere provided you have a legit copy of the game. Even though copyright law (at least, Nintendo's popular view on it) wouldn't want any of that, and with EULAs it's even worse because they don't even allow reselling as far as I know, since copyright holders won't get their buck.

Jokes aside, I would actually be interested in a Plutonium Pak CD-ROM, since I already own the original 1.3D, and never really experienced version 1.4 at all, much less on the PC I grew up playing the game (I'll have to get that fixed too). There are a good amount of BINs on Ebay from around my parts, and the price is far from retarded.

[PsychoGoatee]

Right on. I've still got the Atomic Edition CD that came in the ol' East Meets West box with Shadow Warrior myself.

[Fox]

Zummone, on 08 September 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

Thanks for clearing things up. I recall TerminX talking in optimistic terms when definitive proof of Scott's invalid license came about and he had a more thorough talk with Gearbox. Something that wouldn't have condemned the eventual release at least. I hope it all works good after World Tour's release and he can get the best deal out of it for all the work and passion you guys have been committing.

TX signed a NDA, so what went between him and Gearbox cannot be disclosed. At least I can tell you that Gearbox has given attention to TX.

[Mr. Tibbs]

PC Gamer interview with Scott War:

The fine folks at Gamespot talk about their hands-on impressions of the remaster and share their highly original thoughts on Duke's relevancy in the 21st century.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Also, some very slick gameplay from a maverick talent at Polygon:

[duke a number1]

I hope when you beat the end of the episode a message comes up saying duke 5 coming soon xD something like that.

[MetHy]

Fox, on 08 September 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

And HTTKC is cancelled.

We could all have guessed that, but since this wasn't said officially before I thought there was still a glimmer of hope. What I mean is I thought TX mentioned the possibility of selling the sourceport, without the game files, on mobile and I was hoping this would have made it possible to play TM somehow, but I guess that's beat too then.
Glad to see the mod is still a thing though, I've been holding back on playing the PS1 version just for that.

[TerminX]

Releasing just the port without data isn't out of the question... it just isn't HTTKC.

[MetHy]

Mr. Tibbs, on 08 September 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

PC Gamer interview with Scott War:
[...]
The fine folks at Gamespot talk about their hands-on impressions of the remaster and share their highly original thoughts on Duke's relevancy in the 21st century.
[...]

Not much interesting or new here. A few seconds of video playing Spaceport with their "new renderer" in the first video.

Here is what I see from the video :
- in the main menu you can't just select episode, but you can also select which map you directly want to go to.
- Apparently Nerve software will be in the developer commentary too, talking about the new 3D renderer

2nd video:
- Again saying the new levels mostly use old assets. It's not the first time advertisement of the game says that, and I can't understand why considering all the new art stuff we see in the screenshots and that "new stuff" should be a selling point.
I like how those guys implicitely talk about "the many versions of the game already released including supposedly definitive ones", such as the XBLA version and Megaton, the content that's missing from this new release, and the price. It's like, they want to say it, they want to complain, but really it's not allowed to complain, so it's all implicit.


In both videos they talk about how with the new renderer it's true 3D and you can look up and down without the screen stretching; implying it's all new and Gearbox invented that.

[Mr. Tibbs]

MetHy, on 09 September 2016 - 01:52 AM, said:

- in the main menu you can't just select episode, but you can also select which map you directly want to go to.
- Apparently Nerve software will be in the developer commentary too, talking about the new 3D renderer

One other detail is that Keith Schuler will participate in the commentary. Given his Duke and 3DR background, he's a great pick for a Gearbox representative.

[Loke]

Another developer commentary video. It's the same map as the other video (E1L1) but there's a few different nodes that the player activates.

[Player Lin]

Unlike HL2, I guess it won't have subtitle captions on them, which is bad for those English isn't their first language, like me... :\

[DukeNukem64]

What the hell happened with the voice acting? :/

[DI-MeisterM]

Player Lin, on 09 September 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Unlike HL2, I guess it won't have subtitle captions on them, which is bad for those English isn't their first language, like me... :\

We don't know yet, maybe it's an option.
The mayor problem "I" have i that it's not available in german PS4 store...

[spessu_sb]

DukeNukem64, on 09 September 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

What the hell happened with the voice acting? :/

JSJ decided he is more Duke than 3D.

[MetHy]

Loke, on 09 September 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

Another developer commentary video. It's the same map as the other video (E1L1) but there's a few different nodes that the player activates.

"... and you get the holoduke, you get to play with yourself"

Heh, I never made that connexion.

[Juras]

Is there any info released about multiplayer's netcode, my guess its still will be P2P ?

[Kyanos]

If a triple A dev like gearbox releases a multiplayer game with sync based 90s style net code they should be laughed off the market.

[t800]

So, it could be said that only two major surprises are left to be revealed: multiplayer and E5 boss.
While we are taling about modern client-server model, do you think it would be asking too much for dedicated server exe and "host migrating during game"?
Do you have any theories regarding final E5 boss? Birth one was connected with added monster, so do you think there will be connection between him and "firefly"?

Anyways, isnt starting to get on your nerves all that "We are making it look how you remember it looked" marketing talk?

[Fox]

If the Firefly enemy is one of these guys



then I am hoping the boss is

[HiPolyBash]

[Zummone]

I'm so happy E1L1 seems to be plastered with dev commentary, more than any other game that can tout this feature. I just hope the first level wasn't a short burst and they don't run out of enthusiasm or things to say later on (Randy won't, that's a given). And that at least each episode is a separate session, to minimize any fatigue of standing there for more than an hour watching a mute let's play.

I'm also kinda disappointed they didn't address any of E1L1's forced damage spots (falling and the explosion in the red keycard room). They always stood out to me and I thought they had a little more purpose, since they basically screw any legit no-damage run.
Then again, I think I grew a not-disliking on their render and JSJ's new voice acting, in the same way I would not-dislike a cheap bastardized version of Reloaded. $20 is still too much though.