[Micky C]

At the very least it better have the expanded wall limit.

[keiron]

Is there a definitive reason why the health kits have had their design changed from red cross to pill?

[MusicallyInspired]

"Free mod support." I have a big problem with this wording. As if there should be such thing as anything otherwise. As opposed to what? Paid mod support? Stop PR-ing. Stahp.

[brullov]

MusicallyInspired, on 13 September 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

"Free mod support." I have a big problem with this wording. As if there should be such thing as anything otherwise. As opposed to what? Paid mod support? Stop PR-ing. Stahp.

What if they make paid maps? Like skins in CS GO or Dota 2.

>> Hey! I have a super COOL map for Duke Nukem 3D. It calls MYGRANDMOTHERHOUSE.map. <<
You can buy it for only 4.99$!!! IT HAS AMAZING GAMEPLAY AND FEATURES!!! However I have started mapping one month ago

[sirlemonhead]

keiron, on 13 September 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

Is there a definitive reason why the health kits have had their design changed from red cross to pill?

Sorry for the lazy reply but you might find a good explanation in this thread on doomworld - https://www.doomworl...-cross-changes/

[Robman]

The video game industry knows it's a bunch of betas.. sometimes betas pretending to be alphas.

anything to avoid real work and make a quick buck.

A: "I sit at a computer and program code, well fuck me Jenkins, I think I broke a sweat."
B: " A sweat? What's that... is that the thing that happens to your porous epidermis when you've exuded yourself too extraneously or accumulated a copious amount of BTUs?"
A: "Why yes it is Jenkins, yes, it is."

Spoiler

And I'm sure I just offended everybody on here.
Gyms r for u. Pay to play.

[Marphy Black]

Robman, on 13 September 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

The video game industry knows it's a bunch of betas.. sometimes betas pretending to be alphas.

To be clear, we're talking about the Duke Nukem 3D betas and alphas, right?

[PsychoGoatee]

Micky C, on 13 September 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

At the very least it better have the expanded wall limit.

I hope so. Would be cool if it was compatible with recent eduke32 maps, so more people can check them out who don't know about this scene.

So steam says this game unocks in "approximately 3 weeks", but my my count it unlocks in exactly 4 weeks. Darn computers.

[Altered Reality]

keiron, on 13 September 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

Is there a definitive reason why the health kits have had their design changed from red cross to pill?

Can't afford to offend the other infidels.

[Mblackwell]

The symbol is trademarked by The Red Cross and Johnson & Johnson.

[Danukem]

Mblackwell, on 13 September 2016 - 07:48 PM, said:

The symbol is trademarked by The Red Cross and Johnson & Johnson.

I wonder why that wasn't an issue in 1996. Or in dozens of other years and games.

[MusicallyInspired]

Or Megaton.

[Danukem]

MusicallyInspired, on 13 September 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Or Megaton.

Yeah, it sounds like a convenient excuse to defend a change that was made for political reasons. Just saying, that's what it sounds like.

[Fox]

The red cross symbol is a trademark. Regardless of Megaton willingness to ignore it.

[PsychoGoatee]

There's also a Red Cross on the recent huge game Overwatch's medkits for example. Since it's this and Doom 1 & 2 from BFG edition, maybe only repackaged 90s shooters are targeted by Red Cross. Or maybe Blizzard threw money at them, who knows.

Speaking of free mod support, if it works anything like eduke it'd be possible to just replace it right? Not that it bothers me too much or anything.

[Danukem]

Mblackwell and Fox seem to be missing the point. We're not denying that the red cross is a trademarked symbol. We're pointing out that it hasn't stopped many other commercial games from using red crosses (also, if that's the problem, then why not make it a different color or change the design slightly). I just wish that those who oppose using the cross would have the balls to come out and give their actual reason. That last statement is directed at Gearbox -- I'm assuming that Mblackwell and Fox don't oppose using it.

[TerminX]

Nerve changed it, same as they did in their console port of Doom. We had changed it in HTTKC as well.

[Lunick]

PsychoGoatee, on 13 September 2016 - 09:28 PM, said:

There's also a Red Cross on the recent huge game Overwatch's medkits for example.

Arguable, looks like a red x to me or a very warped +

[Mblackwell]

Trooper Dan, on 13 September 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

Mblackwell and Fox seem to be missing the point. We're not denying that the red cross is a trademarked symbol. We're pointing out that it hasn't stopped many other commercial games from using red crosses (also, if that's the problem, then why not make it a different color or change the design slightly). I just wish that those who oppose using the cross would have the balls to come out and give their actual reason. That last statement is directed at Gearbox -- I'm assuming that Mblackwell and Fox don't oppose using it.

Because in 2008 Red Cross won the rights to its use in business and business applications and began directly licensing it a few years before that (and was sued by Johnson & Johnson but won), and when Devolver released Megaton they didn't notice or care.

[Danukem]

TerminX, on 13 September 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

Nerve changed it, same as they did in their console port of Doom.

pussies

[Rellik]

I think the pill looks dumb, a simple red heart ❤ would be fine. Even the Rod of Rod of Asclepius or Caduceus would also fit. those might not look good at low pixels though.

Or, go back to using cola cans, I'm sure Coca Cola wouldn't mind, right?

[Fox]

Trooper Dan, on 13 September 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

We're pointing out that it hasn't stopped many other commercial games from using red crosses

That's not a solid argument.

Trooper Dan, on 13 September 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

(also, if that's the problem, then why not make it a different color or change the design slightly).

We tried different things for HTTKC. But have you seen the rest of the new textures and sprites in World Tour?

Trooper Dan, on 13 September 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

I just wish that those who oppose using the cross would have the balls to come out and give their actual reason.

They don't have to. It's not a secret or a controversial subject.

[Danukem]

Fox, on 13 September 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

They don't have to. It's not a secret or a controversial subject.

It's both of those things, or pretty damned close.

Can we at least agree that we shouldn't have to refrain from using a red cross symbol in games because of the Red Cross organization? You might as well say that we can't use a mathematical plus sign colored red. It's fucking ludicrous.

[Tea Monster]

When you are producing a game for market, you have so much stuff to worry about and consider. It's a different package entirely from just putting your mod out there. Willfully ignoring the copyright of someone who has gone toe-to-toe with a Fortune 500 company and won is one more lightning rod on your roof that you don't need.

Also, game studios are no longer a group of hippies in their Dad's garage anymore. Artists are employees who have to answer to HR and management, just like everyone else does. Legal (part of who's job it is to avoid the company getting sued) identifies that this is a thing, and notifies the Art Director that it has to be changed. When the upper floors say frog - you jump, or you are no longer a game artist - you are unemployed.

It can also come through as a quality assurance directive - if you ignore that you can have Microsoft or Sony fail your product. If that happens, you can be looking at thousands of dollars to re-certify or you kiss goodbye to most of your potential customers.

[spessu_sb]

Honestly when DN3D: WT comes out, first thing I hope is to have ability to get medpacks the way the should be, aka display with the redcross symbol. I just cannot stand an image of what is supposed to be a pill. A, because no one in the world talks about meds in form of using a pill logo and B.. it just looks so god damned stupid and out of place.

[Danukem]

Rellik, on 13 September 2016 - 10:12 PM, said:

I think the pill looks dumb, a simple red heart ❤ would be fine. Even the Rod of Rod of Asclepius or Caduceus would also fit. those might not look good at low pixels though.

Or, go back to using cola cans, I'm sure Coca Cola wouldn't mind, right?

This. If they are such pussies they are afraid of the Red Cross (it's highly doubtful that the organization would take notice, and even less likely they would sue -- so far they haven't sued any video game makers), then at least they could do better than a Dr. Mario pill. Hell, I would be way more worried about Nintendo suing than the Red Cross.

[Doom64hunter]

Or they could've just used the Shadow Warrior version of the medkits with a white cross and the remainder red.

I'm sure Switzerland doesn't mind.

[Daedolon]

I think it's a case of diminishing effect for the Red Cross considering their stance on it. Everyone actually knows what the company is, regardless of the symbol, the name is what has the weight in people's minds.

If they keep pushing for all products ever to avoid using a red cross as the symbol of hope, they will (hopefully) lose that position in the industry themselves as well, since people will stop crediting a "red cross" for security and health.

[t800]

TerminX, on 13 September 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

Nerve changed it, same as they did in their console port of Doom. We had changed it in HTTKC as well.

I would like to know who in Nerve keeps thinking that pill is more logical and natural replacement than reversed colors or heart.
Just out of curiosity what was your replacement supposed to be?

[Kyanos]

Only pills and doctors can save you now, forget that cross ever existed... maybe they should put a six pointed asterisk with a snake climbing a staff on the health pickup.