[axl]

I love Aliens, Say your Prayers !

[MusicallyInspired]

Alienz is fantastic.

One of these days I'm going to get off my butt and do a complete rerecording of the Duke3D soundtrack with guitars. Hulshult is probably already in the process of doing this considering his track record and more power to him, but I'd do something a little more broader ranged in terms of genre than just metal.

[Ninety-Six]

MusicallyInspired, on 15 February 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

Alienz is fantastic.

One of these days I'm going to get off my butt and do a complete rerecording of the Duke3D soundtrack with guitars. Hulshult is probably already in the process of doing this considering his track record and more power to him, but I'd do something a little more broader ranged in terms of genre than just metal.

Keep us posted because I would love to hear that sort of take.

[NNC]

MusicallyInspired, on 15 February 2019 - 07:32 AM, said:

I really like Whomp beta and ItsGreen.

I don't get why was itsgreen dropped. It's a very good track IMHO.

[Ninety-Six]

It's Green is really good, yeah. I'd imagine it was cut only because they couldn't find a place it would fit.

[MusicallyInspired]

I get the sense that the Duke3D soundtrack was a lot more upbeat than it became. Not only was Whomp toned down and ItsGreen straight up cut, but Lee also stated on his FB discussion group that XPlasma was also a lot more lively than the ambient track it ultimately became. I wonder what that would have sounded like.

So anyway, it was clearly definitely a conscious decision to make the majority of the soundtrack and the tone of the game very moody and atmospheric.

[NNC]

Ninety-Six, on 15 February 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

It's Green is really good, yeah. I'd imagine it was cut only because they couldn't find a place it would fit.

I played Sweeney with it (my modified version actually). The track fits very well to that action packed level.

Sewer is something that can work with a moodier track like Gotham.

[Ninety-Six]

MusicallyInspired, on 15 February 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

So anyway, it was clearly definitely a conscious decision to make the majority of the soundtrack and the tone of the game very moody and atmospheric.

I believe the same. I just wish I knew how that conscious decision was reached.

Nancsi, on 15 February 2019 - 12:38 PM, said:

I played Sweeney with it (my modified version actually). The track fits very well to that action packed level.

Who knows? Maybe because Sweeney was cut, It's Green got dropped too (I mean I'm pretty sure the song is way older than that level but still).

[gemeaux333]

At least, the game have kept one of its promises : Shielding us from playing Nuclear Winter !

[Radar]

Attacking Nuclear Winter unprovoked seems to be the cool thing. I played Nuclear Winter plenty of times when I was young. I knew it wasn't as good as the other expansions, but I still enjoyed it knowing it was an official expansion. I like it a lot more than Plug n Pray, and 20 years later World Tour is not that much better.

[MusicallyInspired]

I do love the recreated levels in Nuclear Winter from Episode 1. I love seeing alternate variations of the same levels.

[gemeaux333]

But the opinion of the majority is in favor of World Tour, not Nuclear Winter !

[Steve 64]

Since this is still active I manage to play 2 full games of Duke Nukem World Tour MP on Xbox one and no this is not an April Fools Joke

[Radar]

gemeaux333, on 01 April 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

But the opinion of the majority is in favor of World Tour, not Nuclear Winter !

Keep in mind the time period when NW was released. There was very little campaign material available in 1997. And what made NW even cooler for its time was that it required Atomic edition. As opposed to World Tour, which imo killed the legacy of the great mappers of the original game, unless you just choose to ignore its existence like me. NW didn't harm Duke in any way, it's just a mediocre episode that aged very poorly. But imo Duke would be better off without World Tour ever being released.

[gemeaux333]

World Tour didn't harm in any way, no more than Nuclear Winter, it was just far more ambitious in the end

[Radar]

gemeaux333, on 03 April 2019 - 07:40 AM, said:

World Tour didn't harm in any way, no more than Nuclear Winter, it was just far more ambitious in the end

Imo that's not true. World Tour showed that after 20 years, the original level designers don't know how to make maps anymore. That's pretty damaging to Duke's legacy imo.

[gemeaux333]

You're wrong, there is no problem with level design in World Tour, that an upside of the game actually !

[MusicallyInspired]

What sort of problems were there with the WT maps? I had a great time with them...only played through them the one time, though.

[Steve 64]

The only problem I have with them that they were not connected.

[NightFright]

I would also say they are quite a bit more linear. That and ofc the new "boss" totally sucks. As does the final map in general.

[Radar]

The first thing that comes to mind is the useless blue key card in the London level. And I still remember the awful lighting in the outdoor area of the pyramid level, and how terrible the paths in the sand look when you get on higher ground. Also the golden gate bridge level is filled with problems. It's supposed to be 1.7 miles long but Duke can run across it in like 4 seconds. And the way the edges of the map are cut off underwater look so bad (it becomes obvious if you use the chaingun underwater). I also thought the night-day SoS thing in the Amsterdam level was executed terribly. What made Lunatic Fringe so cool was that you couldn't tell it was a 720° circle because it was connected seamlessly. But in the Amsterdam level it was not seamless at all and very gimicky.

But even with those things fixed, the overall design approach of World Tour is still an issue. You know how the original maps are filled with those "warp bugs". It's because of how intensively the original maps use SoS. Not even the great mappers of laters years like Pascal rival the SoS work of the original game. It is literally unparalleled and it's kind of wild that they designed a whole game like that. But the wisely and extensively placed SoS areas are no where to be found in World Tour. Same designers, but they couldn't pull it off twice. I feel like they just played a bunch of high quality user maps and tried to emulate that instead of doing their own thing.

EDIT: The second paragraph was thoroughly revised.

[LakiSoft]

@Radar totally agree with you man, IMO World Tour ruined Duke. Although i found Amsterdam something toleratable, i couldn't stand London and Paris, i didn't even managed to find exit from London level, even with heavy cheating! As for Rome, it's nice average secret level. I also liked the design and new art used in Moscow level, though this is bit patrotic, as i am not fully Russian, but i am Slav and when i can read Cyrilic it makes me proud when used in level. As for final boss, it sucks. Golden gate, well i don't know what to say, Egypt is also bit frustating but interesting in same time. The leves from WT i do like the most are:

1. Russia, Moscow (though this opinion is based more on patriotic reasons)
2. Amsterdam
3. Rome
4. Egypt
5. Golden Gate

But seriouslt, if they wanted to make something with new content they could easily release expansion pack for Duke, rather than re-releasing it as totally enw game, lacking original official expansion packs and adding enw worthless final boss. Of course this is all my opinion.

[necroslut]

You guys are crazy. There was a lot of issues with World Tour, like it breaking compability with all mods, but the levels were very good.

[Hendricks266]

Radar, on 03 April 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

Imo that's not true. World Tour showed that after 20 years, the original level designers don't know how to make maps anymore. That's pretty damaging to Duke's legacy imo.

Are you sure it's the level designers, or the lack of any of the original game's direction and production oversight? See also: the new voices.

necroslut, on 03 April 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

You guys are crazy. There was a lot of issues with World Tour, like it breaking compability with all mods, but the levels were very good.

Gearbox and Nerve do not get enough credit for shipping a duke3d.grp that allows all existing mods to be played in source ports just as if it were Atomic.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, the final boss was garbage, but I cannot agree about the maps either. They weren't bad. Could have used more direction, sure. But you're talking like they were trash.

[NNC]

Radar, on 31 March 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

Attacking Nuclear Winter unprovoked seems to be the cool thing. I played Nuclear Winter plenty of times when I was young. I knew it wasn't as good as the other expansions, but I still enjoyed it knowing it was an official expansion. I like it a lot more than Plug n Pray, and 20 years later World Tour is not that much better.

Are you kidding? World Tour (episode 5) is much better than the trainwreck that is NW. I had been critical with some of the levels, especially for having too modern and too overdetailed aesthetics, but other than boss level, all of them hold a pretty high quality, and as said so many times, two levels are already all time classics. Just compare that to NW and it's dreary leveldesign, recycled areas from episode 1 and Doom, nonsense puzzles, badly designed enemies, they aren't comparable. The WT port is indeed terrible, but the episode was more than just fine.

PnP is also much better imho, never got the hate for it ever since it was released for the PC. Yeah, it went downhill after Gates Motel, and has some annoying puzzles too, but it had something NW never had: actual leveldesign.

[NNC]

Radar, on 03 April 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

Imo that's not true. World Tour showed that after 20 years, the original level designers don't know how to make maps anymore. That's pretty damaging to Duke's legacy imo.

Allen Blum clearly has it, what the hell are you talking about?

[NNC]

Duke Legacy, on 03 April 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

The only problem I have with them that they were not connected.

There should have been two episodes. One for LL and one for Blum. LL maps together have a nice coherent feel with that more detailed look and a recreation of an old boss in the end. Blum maps felt standalone in comparison, they should have worked in a campaign style. Start in Frisco, continue to somewhere else, than Egypt, and finish it on the moon. The episode badly lacked another map like Mirage Barrage. It felt so lonely there.

But as standalone maps, they were outstanding, better than LL's maps.

[LakiSoft]

Nuclear Winter was awesome, at least IMO, compared to some WT levels that try to copy high quality levels rather than using old school style. NW at least used old school style even at its original levels, as i don't count modfiifed L.A. Meltdown levels here. Not to mention that new enemies and weapons, even including boss, sucks. However i liked introduction to proper working Mini Overlord. WT had some nice ideas, in IMO it should have done more in classic style and with better boss. That is my opinion. I even found NW more enjoyable after all these years rather than WT. Though Russia and Rome are great maps IMO.

[----]

I found the campaign uninspired.

There were so many new things with fire in it, that it should have had the fire theme as story (World on Fire as title and the "story" being that the aliens couldn't conquer earth they are now trying to burn it). THen a lot more stuff with fire as gameplay elements around the world.