[Jimmy]

Its a damn shame and a disservice to fans that it will probably never be released in its full form. The work that the team did was incredible and all those guys deserve a lot of credit. I just contributed a few minor graphics, those guys pulled off some really great stuff.

[PikaCommando]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 27 November 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

It achieves consistency and quality. DNF is a mangled mess because shipping was the chief goal, not consistency or quality.

Also the Vegas daytime change occurred after Triptych took over. Just go watch the 2009 leaks, you can see the Battlelord battle at least still took place at night.

Can confirm the Battlelord battle taking place at night, however, take note that there's 2 other Vegas clips that take place in daytime as well as the Mothership battle still having the final's skybox. All footage shown in the leaks are consistent with the leaked plot diagram; Mothership battle taking place in the early evening, Casino and Vegas Streets at night, and the rest of Vegas being in daytime. In the final, the skybox is messed up in some places: the intro with the twins is in the afternoon/early evening, the talk show part had a night sky (when the fangirls are cheering outside), some parts of the casino switches between day and night, and then rest are all the same daytime. It's a shame that even if 3DR finished that version, there's still less night-time Vegas than the pre-2007 ones which had night time Vegas from the Casino up until the Stratosfear/Duke Burger.

Also, the leaked gameplay already had the console controls layout and probably the 2-weapons limit as well unlike what was shown in the Jace Hall Show with the HL2-style HUD. I wonder what's up?

[Outtagum]

Mr. Tibbs, on 26 November 2016 - 11:06 PM, said:

Quote

they have the power and freedom to hire actual popular, professional and proven funny people like Anthony Burch

[Shaq Fu]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 26 November 2016 - 07:37 PM, said:

This is 100% demonstrably incorrect. 3D Realms quit production in 2009. Then some of the developers went rogue, and continued to develop it without Scott Miller and George Broussard. Say what you will about either of these men, but without their involvement it is not 3D Realms at that point. And that is why they chose the name Triptych. Triptych and Gearbox released a very different game than 3D Realms was planning to release

But I thought George was involved with Triptych.

[HiPolyBash]

He wasn't, he had to sign off on their final single player build to avoid the lawsuit from Take-Two. Aside from viewing what Triptych had put together to technically qualify as a completed game he wasn't involved.

[Jimmy]

Shaq Fu, on 27 November 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

But I thought George was involved with Triptych.

He no longer managed development. He was merely an actor after 3DR fell, probably for legal reasons like HiPolyBash said.

Don't forget that the hope was Triptych's work would inspire the publisher to fund full development (and everyone would get their jobs back.) That's not how it worked out exactly.

[Shaq Fu]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 27 November 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

He no longer managed development. He was merely an actor after 3DR fell, probably for legal reasons like HiPolyBash said.

Don't forget that the hope was Triptych's work would inspire the publisher to fund full development (and everyone would get their jobs back.) That's not how it worked out exactly.

Damn.

[Micky C]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 27 November 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Gearbox had no hand in development other than paying them peanuts.

Wow seriously? I mean it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it turned out Randy was lying about that man-hours thing, but do we have any sources to back up that they didn't add anyone else of note to work on the game?

[NNC]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 27 November 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Scott Miller did not have much involvement in development but to deny George Broussard's influence is exactly why no one will ever get a Duke Nukem game right again. No matter your opinion of him, Broussard has always understood what worked for the character and what worked for the players who were looking for a Duke Nukem game. All of the biggest negative changes occurred to the game after it was taken away from George. DNF's history is a story of standards. Broussard's DNF is what happens when standards are too high. Gearbox's DNF is what happens when standards are too low. George's management style may have never brought the game to completion but it also would have never shipped the game we got. That is fact.

Broussard might have high standards (I don't think so, he was more like a man, who was utterly clueless why one of the many games he produced became good), but the exec is not only there to have high standards. He is there to hire competent people to work with, and pay them among others. Many people even on this forum understand what works for the character, and what doesn't, but that doesn't makes someone a competent producer and game designer. He utterly failed with DNF, wrong decisions, restarts after restarts, false promises and arrogant statements in the media. DNF wasn't the only title where he failed. Shadow Warrior was the other one. I love and appreciate the game, but it's a textbook example how to ruin something that should have been better than the popular title. The "dickweed" as Levelord rightfully stated managed to lose all the competent designers and hired hacks to finish the game, and it showed.

And your comment about "what worked for the players" was an utter nonsense. What works for players? Making fake teasers and trailers (confirmed many times by insiders), restarting every time and abandoning the legacy of the game which accidentally worked? Many people said here that WT wasn't a fanservice. Then tell me, what was? What did 3DRealms and Broussard did in 12 years to show some respect to the players?

Also, the negative changes of the game in your statement is fundamentally wrong. DNF would have been a failure even if it was finished and released in 2009. Simply put, not attractive graphics (no, I'm not talking about the day or night Vegas, but the game design in general), overly linear gameplay, bad puzzles, bad jokes, and above all, it was behind it's time. Even if everything else was OK, DNF would have failed, because it had been released years later than it should have been. Gearbox didn't help, but this wasn't their game, no matter what you say.

And finally, your last statement is wrong. Let's assume the game was cancelled in 2009, 7 years ago. This forum and this community would be already dead by now, no new projects or hopes for a better game in the future. At least we got something, and some people might actually liked it. At least, now the franchise is not ridiculed by a planned vaporware, but is considered semi alive, and we are waiting for something new in December. Half full and half empty approach, you and your upvoters seems to be in the latter camp.

Quote

I know what HTTKC was. I was a team member. I have played it. You don't know what you're talking about.

My knowledge about this project is limited. All I learnt it was a planned Android release, with the 4 original episodes and the 3 expansions. If this is the case, we compare apples with oranges. WT wasn't made for Android phones, and it's selling point was a new episode. Honestly seeing 8 levels by Blum and Levelord along with Jackson music worth 20 bucks for me. Even if I have to pretend there are no lazy flaws in it. Again, the half empty, half full.

Quote

Nice projection. That's not what I said at all. They were women, what else should I refer to them as?

This is exactly what you said: "it was re-written by two women who had no grasp of the character."

The two women might not had grasp of the character, but not because they are women. It's like saying, "it was rewritten by two jews who had no grasp etc etc". You need to grow up Blitz, it's still a long way to go.

[MusicallyInspired]

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

This is exactly what you said: "it was re-written by two women who had no grasp of the character."

The two women might not had grasp of the character, but not because they are women. It's like saying, "it was rewritten by two jews who had no grasp etc etc". You need to grow up Blitz, it's still a long way to go.

He never said it was because they were women. Where are you getting that?

[----]

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Broussard might have high standards (I don't think so, he was more like a man, who was utterly clueless why one of the many games he produced became good) ...

Reading what he said about Duke's character made me think otherwise.

But I agree, that he lost track after the success of DN3D. That doesn't change what he achieved for that game.

[NNC]

MusicallyInspired, on 28 November 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

He never said it was because they were women. Where are you getting that?

You don't have to say that directly. It was just the emphasis what was wrong. It's irrelevant if they were men or women. If those women were wifes or daughters or aunts or whatever of executives, that deserves an emphasis.

[MusicallyInspired]

Like I said, that's not how he said it. It could have been two guys and he'd have said "written by two guys with no grasp." It could have been two pilots and he'd have said "written by two pilots with no grasp." He literally was not meaning anything by saying "two women" other than they were the ones who did the writing. You're seeing misogyny when it isn't there. Take off your SJW-tinted glasses.

[HiPolyBash]

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

And your comment about "what worked for the players" was an utter nonsense. What works for players? Making fake teasers and trailers (confirmed many times by insiders), restarting every time and abandoning the legacy of the game which accidentally worked? Many people said here that WT wasn't a fanservice. Then tell me, what was? What did 3DRealms and Broussard did in 12 years to show some respect to the players?

Wrongggggggggggggggggggg. Charlie Wiederhold and Frederik Schreiber have both confirmed that NONE of the teasers or trailers were fake, the majority of the content of every piece of media released has been playable with the few pieces not playable scripted for trailers as a target of what to expect which is normal practice in game development. Check yo facts then check yo privilege.

[Jimmy]

Micky C, on 28 November 2016 - 01:40 AM, said:

Wow seriously? I mean it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it turned out Randy was lying about that man-hours thing, but do we have any sources to back up that they didn't add anyone else of note to work on the game?

Mr. Tibbs' post above lays it out quite well. Gearbox was functionally just a publisher.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Broussard might have high standards (I don't think so, he was more like a man, who was utterly clueless why one of the many games he produced became good), but the exec is not only there to have high standards. He is there to hire competent people to work with, and pay them among others. Many people even on this forum understand what works for the character, and what doesn't, but that doesn't makes someone a competent producer and game designer. He utterly failed with DNF, wrong decisions, restarts after restarts, false promises and arrogant statements in the media.

George Broussard is a great game designer but he's not a good project manager. That is where Scott Miller dropped the ball. He was the boss and should have had someone to reign George's creativity in. This was actually someone's job whose name I cant remember near the end of development near George's "cutting is shipping" comment, but as Trammel Ray Isaac said it was too little too late at that point.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

And your comment about "what worked for the players" was an utter nonsense. What works for players? Making fake teasers and trailers (confirmed many times by insiders), restarting every time and abandoning the legacy of the game which accidentally worked? Many people said here that WT wasn't a fanservice. Then tell me, what was? What did 3DRealms and Broussard did in 12 years to show some respect to the players?

That's not what I mean at all. What I mean is that George Broussard knows what Duke Nukem fans are looking for, and it was his search for perfection that was his weakness. He knew our expectations and tried to meet them. Also fanservice is fucking cancer. I bet you watch anime too.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Also, the negative changes of the game in your statement is fundamentally wrong. DNF would have been a failure even if it was finished and released in 2009. Simply put, not attractive graphics (no, I'm not talking about the day or night Vegas, but the game design in general), overly linear gameplay, bad puzzles, bad jokes, and above all, it was behind it's time. Even if everything else was OK, DNF would have failed, because it had been released years later than it should have been. Gearbox didn't help, but this wasn't their game, no matter what you say.

This is baseless speculation on your part. I can show you clearly how much the game changed after 3DR closed it's doors. It was a better game. Everyone who played it agrees. DNF wasn't a linear game for example until they had to chop it up for consoles. And I never said it was Gearbox's game. You can't fucking read. I've said many times, it was Triptych's rogue development with Gearbox's approval that ruined the game. Gearbox had final say. They could have had the full 3DR team return to finish the game. They chose the cheaper option and we got a cheaper game.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

And finally, your last statement is wrong. Let's assume the game was cancelled in 2009, 7 years ago. This forum and this community would be already dead by now, no new projects or hopes for a better game in the future. At least we got something, and some people might actually liked it. At least, now the franchise is not ridiculed by a planned vaporware, but is considered semi alive, and we are waiting for something new in December. Half full and half empty approach, you and your upvoters seems to be in the latter camp.

No.
You are fucking wrong.

I don't give a shit anymore, I typically try to stray away from flaming because I respect the moderating team.

But fuck you.

You're a fucking moron.

DNF did not keep this community alive.

I will not allow you to continue spewing your uninformed bullshit unmatched. You are fucking stupid.

The great work by TerminX, Hendricks, the EDuke32 team, Yatta and the marvelous rag tag team of modders that love Duke Nukem 3D are what have kept this community alive.

I hope you die in a dumpster fire you miserable little twat.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

My knowledge about this project is limited.

Lets not beat around the bush. You know nothing.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

This is exactly what you said: "it was re-written by two women who had no grasp of the character."

The two women might not had grasp of the character, but not because they are women. It's like saying, "it was rewritten by two jews who had no grasp etc etc". You need to grow up Blitz, it's still a long way to go.

I'd rather stay a child and keep my self respect if being an adult means being like you.

MusicallyInspired, on 28 November 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

He never said it was because they were women. Where are you getting that?

He's building strawman and red herring arguments now because he knows that we all know he's an idiot.

fuegerstef, on 28 November 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Reading what he said about Duke's character made me think otherwise.

I wish I could find the quote, I know what you're talking about.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

You don't have to say that directly. It was just the emphasis what was wrong. It's irrelevant if they were men or women. If those women were wifes or daughters or aunts or whatever of executives, that deserves an emphasis.

There was no emphasis. You're making shit up because you know you're wrong.

[Steve 64]

I don't know if anyone cares I ran into this file change for boss 5 on Steam that a guy did and it make the boss alot harder, I think it is great improvement to the boss
http://steamcommunit...41879457337474/

[Person of Color]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 28 November 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

The great work by TerminX, Hendricks, the EDuke32 team, Yatta, the big league trolling by Person of Color and Weider, and the marvelous rag tag team of modders that love Duke Nukem 3D are what have kept this community alive.

Fixed.

[brullov]

HiPolyBash, on 28 November 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

Wrongggggggggggggggggggg. Charlie Wiederhold and Frederik Schreiber have both confirmed that NONE of the teasers or trailers were fake, the majority of the content of every piece of media released has been playable with the few pieces not playable scripted for trailers as a target of what to expect which is normal practice in game development. Check yo facts then check yo privilege.

This is 100% true. All stuff they had was playable and none of the trailers/teasers were fake. I know that I am nobody here, just a guy who is possibly good with art or mapping, but I can confirm that info too.

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

And finally, your last statement is wrong. Let's assume the game was cancelled in 2009, 7 years ago. This forum and this community would be already dead by now, no new projects or hopes for a better game in the future. At least we got something, and some people might actually liked it. At least, now the franchise is not ridiculed by a planned vaporware, but is considered semi alive, and we are waiting for something new in December. Half full and half empty approach, you and your upvoters seems to be in the latter camp.

[TerminX]

Quote

And finally, your last statement is wrong. Let's assume the game was cancelled in 2009, 7 years ago. This forum and this community would be already dead by now, no new projects or hopes for a better game in the future. At least we got something, and some people might actually liked it. At least, now the franchise is not ridiculed by a planned vaporware, but is considered semi alive, and we are waiting for something new in December. Half full and half empty approach, you and your upvoters seems to be in the latter camp.

Haha, what? This forum only really started becoming popular in 2009 when I moved the Duke Nukem 3D community here. People were excited when DNF finally came out, but obviously interest in it totally died out and the forum went back to being centered around the game that most people actually consider to be good.

[NNC]

Meh, when did I deny the great work of the Eduke team and the modders Blitz? Thats a blatant upvote seeking for your insult filled post. I also didn't say the community is alive because of DNF.

I said if the game was cancelled 7 years ago, which might have resulted the IP to be abandoned, people would have lost interest gradually during this time.

In fact, I remember very well, what was the state of the community around 2007, it was in a much worse shape, than it is now.

Many people actually registered here around the DNF release. And no, everything that's worked on, and awaited by others deserves acclompishment. Even if its bad.

[HulkNukem]

It helps too that they basically locked out all the Duke talk on the 3DRealms forums and it had to get relegated to a single thread when Gearbox owned the rights, and then later on once Fred and co. took over they relaunched the forums and locked the entirety of the old one down.
*edit* Completely forgot that Gearbox also had a forum for DNF that Siegler himself also joined as well as other members from 3DRealms' forum, however they were incredibly banhappy and there was a lot of Borderlands fans without a clue who Duke Nukem was trying to make discussions

[HiPolyBash]

HulkNukem, on 28 November 2016 - 07:49 PM, said:

once Fred and co. took over they relaunched the forums and locked the entirety of the old one down.

Which was a bad move because their new forum design is complete shit and no one posts there

[Steve 64]

I don't even like the way it looks on the new 3DRealm forums to Gearboxess if that agood way in saying it.

[PikaCommando]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 28 November 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

Also fanservice is fucking cancer. I bet you watch anime too.


This is baseless speculation on your part. I can show you clearly how much the game changed after 3DR closed it's doors. It was a better game. Everyone who played it agrees. DNF wasn't a linear game for example until they had to chop it up for consoles.

Just a little nitpick, but in case your definition of fanservice is huge bouncy tits, it's not. Whether it's cancer or not is up to you, but fanservice can mean any appeal to the fans of the material; for example, if Gearbox took the effort to make Dr. Proton the boss of Alien World Order, that can be considered fanservice as well.

Also, Fred says that DNF was always a linear game in the style of Half-Life. However, Fred have also said that the Vegas Zone in 2001 DNF works like some sort of hub with limited free roam, whereas Wieder said it was always linear. What do you think?

[MusicallyInspired]

HulkNukem, on 28 November 2016 - 07:49 PM, said:

It helps too that they basically locked out all the Duke talk on the 3DRealms forums and it had to get relegated to a single thread when Gearbox owned the rights, and then later on once Fred and co. took over they relaunched the forums and locked the entirety of the old one down.
*edit* Completely forgot that Gearbox also had a forum for DNF that Siegler himself also joined as well as other members from 3DRealms' forum, however they were incredibly banhappy and there was a lot of Borderlands fans without a clue who Duke Nukem was trying to make discussions

Tell me about it. I made one post at one point calling someone out somehow for a silly ignorant thing they said. I said something mildly derogatory like "don't be dumb" or something innocent like that. Then, I figured it was unfair and so I edited my post, because I'm a nice guy like that. Half an hour later I get an account strike (I believe it's 8 and your permabanned) for it. I messaged the admin asking what it was for and he said it was for that post. I almost flipped and told him that I literally edited that post 10 seconds after I made it and nobody could have seen it. All he told me was that it was reported before I edited it so the strike stands.

I never went back. They were always on edge and anybody no matter what kind of person you are is a potential threat and the minute you stray too close to the line they're on you. I've never had an account strike for anything in my life. They don't care what kind of person you are and they don't care about the context of anything. And I wasn't really trying to bash the guy. Just so incredibly rigid and inflexible. That's not how you moderate a community. That's how you rule with an iron fist.

And their forums ARE hideous. Why are all forums going that direction? It's so unwieldy and cumbersome! Telltale went that way too. And Bethesda.

[brullov]

PikaCommando, on 28 November 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

Also, Fred says that DNF was always a linear game in the style of Half-Life. However, Fred have also said that the Vegas Zone in 2001 DNF works like some sort of hub with limited free roam, whereas Wieder said it was always linear. What do you think?

Fred is right.

[Jimmy]

Nancsi, on 28 November 2016 - 07:49 PM, said:

Meh, when did I deny the great work of the Eduke team and the modders Blitz? Thats a blatant upvote seeking for your insult filled post. I also didn't say the community is alive because of DNF.

I said if the game was cancelled 7 years ago, which might have resulted the IP to be abandoned, people would have lost interest gradually during this time.

In fact, I remember very well, what was the state of the community around 2007, it was in a much worse shape, than it is now.

Many people actually registered here around the DNF release. And no, everything that's worked on, and awaited by others deserves acclompishment. Even if its bad.

The community is more or less the same now. But what happened is consolidation. There were 5+ major Duke sites from 2000-2007. Now there's only one. We're all here now.

PikaCommando, on 28 November 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

Just a little nitpick, but in case your definition of fanservice is huge bouncy tits, it's not. Whether it's cancer or not is up to you, but fanservice can mean any appeal to the fans of the material; for example, if Gearbox took the effort to make Dr. Proton the boss of Alien World Order, that can be considered fanservice as well.

Also, Fred says that DNF was always a linear game in the style of Half-Life. However, Fred have also said that the Vegas Zone in 2001 DNF works like some sort of hub with limited free roam, whereas Wieder said it was always linear. What do you think?

Fan service is cancer because when you give the fans what they want you run something into the ground. It's never a good thing to indulge in. DNF is the ultimate example of how fan service doesn't make a subpar product good.

Fred wasn't a developer. I wouldn't take anything he says that seriously. Wieder on the other hand knows what he's talking about and spent much of his life making that game great. But he left development in 2006. There were huge changes to the game after the 2006 exodus that he wouldn't really be able to comment on since he wasn't there. Again, go back and read Mr. Tibbs' post. It lays it out. Andrew Baker worked on the game before 3D Realms fell, and was one of two level designers to join back up with Triptych. IF ANYONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE LINEARITY OF DNF IT WOULD BE THE LEVEL DESIGNERS WHO WERE PAID TO CHOP THE GAME UP. And this is what Baker had to say: "That engine ran on consoles like a fat guy up Everest. Some levels were cut into up to four parts (why many seemed oddly short) and still level loading times were terrible. Dead ends, side routes, any excess gameplay space that could be cut, was cut. "

[OpenMaw]

Just tread carefully in what you invest in. That's all i'm gonna say.

[Micky C]

Wieder has said a few times that DNF was always relatively linear. I take this to mean compared to Duke 3D. I.e it'd still have overall linear gameplay, but it wouldn't be the 1D corridor it turned out to be in the end.

[Jimmy]

Again, Wieder wasn't involved in the 2007-2009 development cycle... which was a different game. His commentary is irrelevant to the game we actually got.