Duke4.net Forums: Unreal Thread - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Hide message Show message
Welcome to the Duke4.net Forums!

Register an account now to get access to all board features. After you've registered and logged in, you'll be able to create topics, post replies, send and receive private messages, disable the viewing of ads and more!

  • 4 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Unreal Thread  "A place for discussing Unreal"

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#1



So Unreal since it's release has always been kind of a legendary game for me as it was insanely ambitious and the amount of content made for it was tremendous, enough to make a mission pack out of pretty much just cut material and then Unreal Tournament, which was originally the Botpack, an add-on for Unreal. Can you imagine this whole things as one huge game? (You can easily do this in UT but it was also the original plan.)

This post has been edited by deuxsonic: 20 August 2016 - 01:01 AM

2

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,966

#2

Thank you for not calling this "Unreal Corner."

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
2

User is offline   fuegerstef 

  • 614

#3

I will answer one question from the Quake-thread when that was about Unreal.

What should the next (free) UT have to appeal to the audience between all the F2?-twitch shooters, Quake Championship, Overwatch, etc ...?


Only my personal opinion:
I should have vehicles and an ONS mode, because that was what got a lot of people to UT in 2004. Large but fast warfare as an additional mode. That's something none of the other games I mentioned have (and BF or CoD aren't twitch shooters). And it should be Onslaught like in UT2004 again, not Warfare with all the unneccessary stuff cramped into it. I met Jeff Morris (producer of UT3) at the Games Convention (now GamesCom) and we chatted about the next UT (UT3 was called UT2007 in those early dev stages). And we talked about ONS. Initially there were two modes ONS and WAR which later got combined to one gametype in UT3, which was a bad thing IMHO.
Pure ONS only had one problem: short midgame battles. A lot of stuff was tried to fix that in UT3 with additional free nodes, objectives and stuuf. But the only thing that would have been needed were better maps. DM would also suck if all pickups are collected in one elevated area.
In ONS the team with more nodes has more vehicles and weapons at hand and they can easily teleport between the captured nodes. To counterbalance that you only have to put the bases and primary nodes higher than the nodes at the center of the map and (something that is even more important and also enough if the height difference in the map isn't possible due to design): Put the nodes that connect to the core closer to the core than to the center nodes. Meaning: the closer to the base the shorter the distance between the nodes, so that the defending team can bring the resources to the node faster than the attacking team. Gametype fixed. :) THen make interesting node layouts and you can have fun again.

A few free casual games by me: http://gamejolt.com/...uegerstef/2615/

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 18 August 2016 - 08:07 AM

0

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 388

#4

View Postfuegerstef, on 18 August 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

I met Jeff Morris (producer of UT3) at the Games Convention (now GamesCom) and we chatted about the next UT (UT3 was called UT2007 in those early dev stages). And we talked about ONS. Initially there were two modes ONS and WAR which later got combined to one gametype in UT3, which was a bad thing IMHO.


How was WAR different from ONS before they were merged?
0

User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 807

#5

Unreal Tournament 2004 is so fucking great.
0

User is offline   fuegerstef 

  • 614

#6

View PostPikaCommando, on 18 August 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

How was WAR different from ONS before they were merged?


It was very close to Assault in a huge environment. I will see if I can find that video that was shot from gameplay that year in the booth.

One moment.

EDIT:
Here is a quote from Beyondunreal:
"Unreal Warfare maps are set to be potentially as large as three Onslaught maps, with 'Assault'-like sub-objectives and even a limited form of resource management. Players will join one of the eight teams, each with its own unique armour, and wage war across huge territories which change visually depending on which team is in control.
With Unreal Warfare, it's clear that Epic intends to offer something for the more tactical gamer, with the Warfare mode focussing more on strategy, resource management and teamwork. The gameplay sequence at the end of this CG 2005 presentation shows what a Warfare sub-objective might look like.

Sounds great, doesn't it. Unfortunately it seems this new gametype has been swept under the carpet by Epic, as revealed in a recent issue of PC Gamer. A quote from the magazine explains:

Producer Jeff Morris tells us: "Unreal Warfare mode now consists of a series of Onslaught matches in which your performance on one map will influence the next map. These [effects] can be subtle - such as changing the vehicles available in the next map - or major, where the next map itself will be determined by the current match."

from: https://www.beyondun...crew-up-ut2007/

And later it just became Warfare as in ONS with orbs and a side objective that is nothing more than charging a normal node.


And a video (before UT3 became all grey and brown):
http://www.gamespot....1/2300-6127967/

A few free casual games by me: http://gamejolt.com/...uegerstef/2615/

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 18 August 2016 - 12:09 PM

0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#7

What shocked me is that even after UT2003 left out Assault and everyone complained so UT2004 they brought it back along with the new Onslaught and VCTF (which didn't actually have any maps and is hidden in the initial release), UT3 they leave it out again as though they completely forgot what happened with UT2003, which got really good reviews but everyone felt that it changed the formula for UT seemingly to court Quake players making it floatier and less damaging? The whole sports thing was a huge mistake and by 2004 they were already backtracking on it. UT3 was much closer but the game felt unfinished, particularly with what Warfare was going to be and how it turned out to just be a renamed Onslaught with some tweaks like the orb to make it easier for the losing team to turn the match around even when the other team was largely dominating, which was really hard with the original rules. The new UT will probably be in development for the rest of the century so I can pick out things that I like from each installment of the franchise and things that totally baffle me. Something I don't think is well known is that some of the game assets that went into Unreal Championship 2, which was an XBOX exclusive like Unreal Championship (originally going to be an XBOX exclusive as well until they spawned UT2003 from it for the PC and then ultimately took UT2003 and scaled it back to become UC, breaking a lot of promises for what UC had in store like vehicles), were originally intended for "UT2005" before they abandoned that idea, made UC2 which is a lot closer to a fighting game, and then much later started UT2007 on Unreal Engine 3 which was released as UT3. EDIT: This was most likely just a rumor.

As for the colors in UT3, a lot of that is due to the post-processing effects applied. Nearly all maps desaturate the colors to some degree. At one point a mod was being worked on which basically got rid of this so every map was displayed in unaltered saturation. It might still be floating around out there.

This post has been edited by deuxsonic: 18 August 2016 - 02:26 PM

0

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 388

#8

View PostHulkNukem, on 18 August 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Unreal Tournament 2004 is so fucking great.


Personally, I didn't like 2k4 because it felt too floaty and console-y; I actually prefer UT3 for the most part. Wait, don't point a gun at me just yet. Yes, I know that most people consider UT3 to be the most consolized one in the series, but I disagree; U2 and UT2k4 is similarly guilty, if not more. Unreal 2 and Unreal Tournament 2004 is very consolized for its time; players move rather slow in comparison to Unreal/UT99 because Halo was the most popular console FPS at the time and it's pretty obvious that Epic took a few cues from there. When 2k7 was announced in 2005, Epic knew that a lot of UT99 fans complained about the floaty/console-y mechanics in 2k4 and tried to make amends for it by promising that UT2k7 would be as fast as UT99. Ultimately, I think Gears of War influenced them a little too much (because they made it, after all) and even though that's the case, the controls still feel tighter than 2k4. My only complaint is the asymmetric Warfare mode with the Necris vehicles. I liked it more when it's both teams have the same vehicles. Source is the CGW magazine, I'll upload the pages later.

Also, what's with their culture fetish? 2k4 had those Egyptian stuff while UT3 had the Japanese stuff. Those are major turn-offs imo, give me back the American backstreets and skyscrapers from UT99.


View Postfuegerstef, on 18 August 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

It was very close to Assault in a huge environment. I will see if I can find that video that was shot from gameplay that year in the booth.

One moment.

EDIT:
Here is a quote from Beyondunreal:
"Unreal Warfare maps are set to be potentially as large as three Onslaught maps, with 'Assault'-like sub-objectives and even a limited form of resource management. Players will join one of the eight teams, each with its own unique armour, and wage war across huge territories which change visually depending on which team is in control.
With Unreal Warfare, it's clear that Epic intends to offer something for the more tactical gamer, with the Warfare mode focussing more on strategy, resource management and teamwork. The gameplay sequence at the end of this CG 2005 presentation shows what a Warfare sub-objective might look like.

Sounds great, doesn't it. Unfortunately it seems this new gametype has been swept under the carpet by Epic, as revealed in a recent issue of PC Gamer. A quote from the magazine explains:

Producer Jeff Morris tells us: "Unreal Warfare mode now consists of a series of Onslaught matches in which your performance on one map will influence the next map. These [effects] can be subtle - such as changing the vehicles available in the next map - or major, where the next map itself will be determined by the current match."

from: https://www.beyondun...crew-up-ut2007/

And later it just became Warfare as in ONS with orbs and a side objective that is nothing more than charging a normal node.


And a video (before UT3 became all grey and brown):
http://www.gamespot....1/2300-6127967/


Interesting. Sounds like UT2k7's Unreal Warfare mode was literally the Unreal Warfare that used to be Gears of War but in UT's gameplay and without the mech suit.

Also, I found more stuff.

Same thing but somewhat different:


There's a vehicle here that I think isn't in UT3?


Posted Image

View Postdeuxsonic, on 18 August 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Something I don't think is well known is that some of the game assets that went into Unreal Championship 2, which was an XBOX exclusive like Unreal Championship (originally going to be an XBOX exclusive as well until they spawned UT2003 from it for the PC and then ultimately took UT2003 and scaled it back to become UC, breaking a lot of promises for what UC had in store like vehicles), were originally intended for "UT2005" before they abandoned that idea, made UC2 which is a lot closer to a fighting game, and then much later started UT2007 on Unreal Engine 3 which was released as UT3.

As for the colors in UT3, a lot of that is due to the post-processing effects applied. Nearly all maps desaturate the colors to some degree. At one point a mod was being worked on which basically got rid of this so every map was displayed in unaltered saturation. It might still be floating around out there.


Source on the UT2k5 stuff? As far as I know, UT2k7 was already worked on since 2005.
0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#9

Does anyone have the Unreal Engine 3 demo that was done by Tim Sweeney where he shows off some vehicle driving (this was before any games had been released on the engine yet.) I'll look for the mentions of UT2005, I can't even remember where I read it.

https://www.beyondun...crew-up-ut2007/

I do like how in this article they mentioned something I forgot, the player scale, which was way off starting with UT2 where everyone are ants crawling around in comparatively massive maps. Getting player scale right seems like it should have been a simple matter.

This post has been edited by deuxsonic: 18 August 2016 - 02:20 PM

0

User is offline   leilei 

  • 460

#10

I do wonder how long until this thread turns into a quadshot-worshipping dragon-fantasizing "unreal beta" dorkfest.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by leilei: 18 August 2016 - 02:19 PM

0

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 388

#11

The first reveal/world-premiere/whatever of UT2k7.

Screens:
Posted Image

Posted Image
0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#12

View Postleilei, on 18 August 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

I do wonder how long until this thread turns into a quadshot-worshipping dragon-fantasizing "unreal beta" dorkfest.


I think the game did an excellent job in the direction they chose for it to go which was not a game for dragons. The real early stuff that was shown was James Schmalz basically messing around with 3D and there wasn't a concept for what the game would even be at that point. The game had many rather unique weapons and really didn't need the weapons that were left out like the QuadShot when you had the Flak Cannon that was sort of the weapon with spread that took its place. If people want that, they modded it into the game (both Unreal and UT) ages ago anyway.
0

User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 807

#13

View PostPikaCommando, on 18 August 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

Personally, I didn't like 2k4 because it felt too floaty and console-y; I actually prefer UT3 for the most part. Wait, don't point a gun at me just yet. Yes, I know that most people consider UT3 to be the most consolized one in the series, but I disagree; U2 and UT2k4 is similarly guilty, if not more. Unreal 2 and Unreal Tournament 2004 is very consolized for its time; players move rather slow in comparison to Unreal/UT99 because Halo was the most popular console FPS at the time and it's pretty obvious that Epic took a few cues from there. When 2k7 was announced in 2005, Epic knew that a lot of UT99 fans complained about the floaty/console-y mechanics in 2k4 and tried to make amends for it by promising that UT2k7 would be as fast as UT99. Ultimately, I think Gears of War influenced them a little too much (because they made it, after all) and even though that's the case, the controls still feel tighter than 2k4. My only complaint is the asymmetric Warfare mode with the Necris vehicles. I liked it more when it's both teams have the same vehicles. Source is the CGW magazine, I'll upload the pages later.


Fair point; like I've said in the Quake thread, I personall preferred the slightly slower gameplay of Quake 3 to UT99 as UT felt a bit too twitchy. I liked the modes and some of the unique maps in UT however.
UT2004 to me feels like the best of both worlds; beautiful maps, lots of variety, chunky players ranging in themes, and imo the most satisfying rocket launcher explosion sound ever (there is something arcade-like to that sound that I just can't get enough of).
Plus, the vehicles were fun, although I don't much care for the maps being THAT huge; the gameplay slows down even more.

And yeah, Epic seemed to love the egyptian like theme the most; Unreal Championship 2's story mode was all about it, and so something like 3/4 of the characters were Nakhti.
I didn't like UT3 all that much because it seemed to compromise some of its gameplay with graphics; with there being such a huge increase in visual fidelity, a lot of the maps end up looking the same because of all the shared assets.

Plus, UT2004 had invasion, the precursor to horde/survival modes most games have these days.
Oh and AS_Convoy
1

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 388

#14

View PostHulkNukem, on 18 August 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

Fair point; like I've said in the Quake thread, I personall preferred the slightly slower gameplay of Quake 3 to UT99 as UT felt a bit too twitchy. I liked the modes and some of the unique maps in UT however.
UT2004 to me feels like the best of both worlds; beautiful maps, lots of variety, chunky players ranging in themes, and imo the most satisfying rocket launcher explosion sound ever (there is something arcade-like to that sound that I just can't get enough of).
Plus, the vehicles were fun, although I don't much care for the maps being THAT huge; the gameplay slows down even more.

And yeah, Epic seemed to love the egyptian like theme the most; Unreal Championship 2's story mode was all about it, and so something like 3/4 of the characters were Nakhti.
I didn't like UT3 all that much because it seemed to compromise some of its gameplay with graphics; with there being such a huge increase in visual fidelity, a lot of the maps end up looking the same because of all the shared assets.

Plus, UT2004 had invasion, the precursor to horde/survival modes most games have these days.
Oh and AS_Convoy


Honestly, I don't know how to describe Quake 3's gameplay. It just never feels right; sometime's it's slow, sometime's it's fast, and it just feels odd to move and aim? I blame the lack of proper widescreen support though. Yes, I know Carmack is the programming god or whatever and I know he did contribute a lot to the industry, but the fact that changing resolution and fov (without its own set of issues) in every Unreal Engine game is as simple as editing config files shows that Unreal Engine is, in my opinion, superior. UE is love, UE is life.

The best map in UT3 is WAR-OnyxCoast imo. It just looks beautiful and plays great. The other maps are either bland, or GoW-ish (WAR-Downtown is confirmed to be based on the original concept of the cut Timgad levels from GoW which is later re-added into the PC version and VCTF-Kargo has the exact same shade of green as the Timgad levels).

Also, AS-Mothership for life.
0

User is offline   leilei 

  • 460

#15

View PostPikaCommando, on 18 August 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

I blame the lack of proper widescreen support though. Yes, I know Carmack is the programming god or whatever and I know he did contribute a lot to the industry, but the fact that changing resolution and fov (without its own set of issues) in every Unreal Engine game is as simple as editing config files shows that Unreal Engine is, in my opinion, superior. UE is love, UE is life.

what

changing cg_fov, r_mode and/or r_customwidth/r_customheight in q3config.cfg is quite trivial, and plus you can do it in the console for both engines

also UE1/2 doesn't have horizontal expansion either, and Carmack's vert- fov is intentionally to not confuse "fov 90" with a fisheye perspective, way back in a 1998 .plan. He was considering Hor+

Posted Image

This post has been edited by leilei: 19 August 2016 - 05:35 AM

0

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 388

#16

View Postleilei, on 19 August 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

what

changing cg_fov, r_mode and/or r_customwidth/r_customheight in q3config.cfg is quite trivial, and plus you can do it in the console for both engines

also UE1/2 doesn't have horizontal expansion either, and Carmack's vert- fov is intentionally to not confuse "fov 90" with a fisheye perspective, way back in a 1998 .plan. He was considering Hor+


I think I already posted about this in the Quake thread, but that doesn't work. It does become "widescreen" in an ugly inbred sort of way, but changing the cg_fov only changes the field of view and not including the weapon viewmodel field of view. Some Q3 engine games can't even widescreen because reasons. On the other hand, Hor+ works perfectly on every UE game; everything scales perfectly.
-1

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#17

That's a curious bit: why did it take so long for id to give their games proper widescreen support when they were usually on top of things?
0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#18

View PostPikaCommando, on 18 August 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:


Posted Image


It's the Nemesis.
0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,966

#19

I've never had a problem widescreening any Q3+ game from Jedi Outcast to Elite Force to Doom 3 to RTCW. It stretches HUD, menu, and any other 2D sprites on screen, but everything else looked ok. I guess it does chop off the tops and bottoms of some cutscene camera angles but that's about it.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
1

User is offline   leilei 

  • 460

#20

Just ignore his blind, misinformed engine fanboyism and we'll be fine. No use in explaining to him how/why Q3 does things differently or how game engines work in general, the context of the time they were programmed in, and not even knowing where the true strength of Unreal lies in (and it's not from having ini files, Glide support, tracker music, or alleged widescreen)

	// drop gun lower at higher fov
	if ( cg_fov.integer > 90 ) {
		fovOffset = -0.2 * ( cg_fov.integer - 90 );
	} else {
		fovOffset = 0;
	}


Posted Image

This post has been edited by leilei: 19 August 2016 - 03:56 PM

-1

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#21

Is there a way to disable this other than stripping it out of the source and rebuilding it? I don't know if ioQuake3 or anyone else touched this. For widescreen a higher horozontal FOV makes sense but what if I don't want the weapon slid off the screen as a result?
0

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 388

#22

View Postleilei, on 19 August 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Just ignore his blind, misinformed engine fanboyism and we'll be fine. No use in explaining to him how/why Q3 does things differently or how game engines work in general, the context of the time they were programmed in, and not even knowing where the true strength of Unreal lies in (and it's not from having ini files, Glide support, tracker music, or alleged widescreen)

	// drop gun lower at higher fov
	if ( cg_fov.integer > 90 ) {
		fovOffset = -0.2 * ( cg_fov.integer - 90 );
	} else {
		fovOffset = 0;
	}



>engine fanboyism

There's no point in explaining it because it doesn't even work. Even if I understood it, it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work for me. I like UE because it works, and dislike idTech because it doesn't. Simple as that.



Anyway, is anyone here up-to-date with UT4? I hear many things about how people like it because it's made together with the community and whatnot, but I'm not seeing much progress at all. Also, new Skaarj looks weird:

Posted Image

Can't wait until the day our lord, the Nali War/Atomic Cow, returns:

Posted Image
0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#23

Some light remixes:



This post has been edited by deuxsonic: 19 August 2016 - 11:20 PM

1

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#24

Wish I could post more than 2 at a time...


1

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 388

#25

View Postdeuxsonic, on 20 August 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

Wish I could post more than 2 at a time...




Why not just link via url?
0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#26

Only have 4 more...


0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#27

I would have just linked them all but it's kind of nice when you can just click play and listen to it. Trying to make it as easy as possible for you guys.



http://ocremix.org/g...-tournament-win A couple more here (the Foregone Destruction remix is particularly good I think.)

There are lots more if you search YouTube but the ones I've posted are the ones that got my attention. Alexander Brandon and Michiel van den Bos did so much great music. It's a stretch but because the same musicians were involved I'll mention the Deus Ex ones too.

http://ocremix.org/g...574/deus-ex-win The 2 on here that Brandon himself worked on are my favorites. Like Unreal and UT, there are a number of good remixes of the UNATCO theme and more of Synapse on YouTube and at least 1 I found on Newgrounds.

Finally, Jazz Jackrabbit as Alexander Brandon did the music for 2 and the abandoned 3:

http://ocremix.org/g...ackrabbit-2-win

http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR03319 (This wasn't Alexander Brandon but still awesome.)

This post has been edited by deuxsonic: 20 August 2016 - 06:35 AM

0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,966

#28

I liked these.


Roland SC-55 Music Packs
It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 276

#29

Remixes of all 3 tracks of Shared Dig.

RTNP has a track, Star Seeker, which is one of my favorite pieces of music from that even though it's pretty short and used on a comparatively short map (Approaching UMS Prometheus). I would love to hear a remix of that. :D More remixes of Nightvision and Mechanism Eight would be great too. UT3's mix of the latter is really good, but also staying really close to the original, and I wonder if it's like the original was good to the point where there wasn't much to change? It keeps the initial melody track completely unchanged from the original MOD. Interestingly enough Mechanism Eight has a second track that's not used in UT (which only ever used a single track for a given map) which is kind of a slower ambient version of the main track.

This post has been edited by deuxsonic: 20 August 2016 - 01:45 PM

0

User is offline   Robman 

  • Asswhipe [sic]
  • 657

#30

Quake 3 or UT99?

Quake 3 for competition.

UT99 for f*ckin around.

I have a game for my x-box, I think it's called Unreal Championship... yeah it doesn't get played. Whoever the idiot was that turned it into a 3rd person view should have been slapped with a fat mushroom.

I remember playing the original Unreal demo back in the day, it was beautiful and fun to explore... I don't think I've ever finished it. I don't finish very many games to tell you the truth.

This post has been edited by Robman: 20 August 2016 - 02:25 PM

0

Share this topic:


  • 4 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks are property of their respective owners. Instead of reading this text, you could be playing Ion Maiden! ;) © 2018 Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options