[CruX]

THE ROOT

by CruX

Duke's been contracted by the EDF for a reconnaissance job, sending him to a research facility that's tucked off in a remote corner of a Californian desert. All he's been told is that the facility is owned and operated by a private organization that was collaborating with the EDF on a top secret project, and a recent communication break down on the organization's end has left the EDF brass a bit unnerved...







Glad to announce that after eight or so months, this sucker is finally done. It isn't anything groundbreaking, but it's definitely my most ambitious and involved mapping effort to date, so I'm pretty proud of it. If you're up for a challenge give it a whirl on Come Get Some, since that's the difficulty level I spent the most amount of time fine-tuning, but no matter what difficulty you choose, get ready to hit the ground running and once you're all done, let me know what you think!

Spoiler

Only bug that might be worth mentioning is that there's a water sector with a rotating gear about a quarter of the way through the map that might crush you if you're not careful when you jump into it. Neither of my beta testers reported it and I personally could only make it happen once or twice

Attached File(s)

•  theroot.zip (6.39MB)
  Number of downloads: 857

[MetHy]

Congrats on a new release!

I'm in the area past the teleporter, where I think I'm supposed to get the red key which I think is behind that door blocked by alien slime (just haven't figured how to get there yet) but I gotta stop playing for now and will only be back in a few days.

I thought I'd drop a first comment anyway, so keep in mind I haven't beat the map yet.

In terms of looks and detailing, the map looks amazing. There is good taste in texture choice and combinations, colours, etc

I hate to sound like an asshole and I know you've worked hard on this, but I also believe in the power of criticism, and my liking of the map so far stops at the looks.

I think this is sadly a case of detailing hindering gameplay, way too much. The map is cramped, when I don't get stuck or bump in decor or props, it's my bullets which do (getting stuck in lights halos etc) and the tightness of all environment make the gameplay either very limited/one dimensional or outright frustrating (fighting the two commanders in the hangar with no place to maneuver for instance). The sad thing is that, the two times you do provide a more open outdoor environment, you don't take advantage of it.
First outdoor area (not counting the beginning of the map, so I guess 2nd outdoor area) there is a gazillion enemies right at the first step in, forcing the player to retreat and clear most of the outdoor area from inside the previous corridor... Then the next large oudoor area, it's just empty, even though the player fight 2 pigtanks in a cramped room filled with servers just near to that area. It just feels like wasted opportunity.

My other grip is navigation. Honestly, there is so much decorative stuff it makes navigation a chore. There is a gazillion decorative doors with no clue on which one can be opened, as well as a gazillion decorative switches even though the player is asked to find the rare ones which work. Also, all the non working doors and switches, on top of the fact there is very little to interact with (most doors you go through, you can't even open, they're just opened already, for instance), make the map feel lifeless.
Stupid comparison but it feels like meeting the most beautiful girl ever, only to realize she's also not very bright and that you're not allowed to touch her.

On top of that I didn't find the layout very intuitive at all. At the start of the map I found the tripmines, so I didn't go upstairs, I used them to break the crack outdoor and go underwater... Bad idea, I died twice crushed by the gear you mentionned and one in one of the first sector after getting underwater. After that, I made it past a few corridors and quickly realized I was completely out of both ammo (only had chaingun, even though there was pistol ammo around) and health with a lot of enemies a head. So I backtracked, and went upstairs, thinking maybe I wasn't supposed to go underwater yet.
After that I ended up in the hangar with the 2 commanders I mentionned; only later did I get the blue card and the shotgun, blue card which I then used, only to realize it opens an elevator to the hangar I had already been to and from which I had used another elevator that requires no key just next to the other one... Again, felt like I wasn't supposed to go there yet.

I'll stop here because I really don't want to make it feel like I'm trying to beat you up with a baseball bat. I'm sure lot's of other people will love the map, but for me so far it feels like a waste of talent.

[CruX]

MetHy, on 21 June 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

woah that's a lot of words

for the record, I'm glad your comment was first just because of the tripbomb thing. I kinda threw those in at the end absent mindedly not realizing how badly it could kill the progression I was going for, thanks for pointing that out. Map's been updated without those. I'll go ahead and respond to some of those other points, though, in a spoiler

Spoiler

for most of the map I tried to make it switch off between fighting it out in larger, open areas, then switching off to smaller, cramped areas, only giving the player a little bit of time to adjust. The first area with the trucks was intended to be a heavy fire-fight where you could stand your ground, but also have to keep behind cover to avoid getting cut down too quick.

Now, even though I appreciate your feedback and how you've articulated it, this where I'm going to disagree with you, because I think for that area specifically, I took about as much advantage of the larger space as I could. I dropped caches of ammo and health to motivate the player to move further into the area, and I left areas for cover (namely the large IMF sign) to motivate the player to stay once they'd gotten there. A lot of the enemies were stayput so they wouldn't come after you, and others spawned depending on where you ventured in the larger area.

You mentioned that you retreated into the previous corridor to deal with the first swarm of bad guys. If that's how you prefer to even the odds, more power to you, but there's nothing I can do to keep that from happening. I didn't fail to take advantage of the larger space that I'd built, you chose to carry out the fight in a way that minimized it. Like I said, more power to you, I don't want to tell someone how to play a map, but it's kinda unfair to put the fault for that on me.

The area with the servers was more hit-and-miss experimental and I can understand your gripes with it a bit more. Of all the test plays I've done of the map, it's where I've died the most. I wanted to have an ambush scenario with tanks and pigs, and you'd have to hack your way out of it. I was worried if I kept the first area too open, you'd get killed leaving that security office on the spot, so I put more columns of the servers down than I'd originally planed. The idea was that the tanks can't maneuver all that well in such an area and it'd give you a strategic advantage, enabling you either to pick them off between the servers or just run past into the more open courtyard area. IMO it mostly worked the way I intended, but the extra bad guys mixed with the damage the tanks do when exploding (I had no idea the hitradius for those things was so high) made it more complicated and frustrating than I'd planned. The map is still intended to be a challenge though, so I had reservations with changing it, even once I'd noticed.

Far as the progress for the first section of the map goes, it wasn't intended to be done one specific way. The objective was to get either the pipebombs or the RPG in the warehouse area, and you could access it either by grabbing the blue keycard from the LARD office, or just dropping down the ventilation shafts. Both ways were intended to have pros and cons, and including those trip bombs at the beginning really did critically fuck the whole thing up. I'm both glad that you pointed it out and bummed that I didn't catch it myself, because it might've aided your first impression if only a bit. I'm not sure what to say about some of the other points, they either sound like differences of personal taste (cramped areas and decorative doors, etc.), things I nor my beta testers had a problem with (none of my bullets have caught on anything other than walls and sectors), or things I straight up don't agree with and think you're mistaken about.

I do appreciate your taking the time to play this and the thought you've clearly put into the criticism you gave. I plan to do some more mapping in the future, and there's no way I can get feedback of that volume and not have it in the back of my head, so don't let this response make you think that was a wasted effort, because it certainly wasn't.

[Paul B]

Map looks great from those screenshots! I'm interested in checking this out when I get some time. Don't take the advice that Methy throws at you to heart. Methy see's your incredible talent and potential and he is just trying to make you aware of some things Duke players appreciate when playing a map. It is always a fine balance between detail and game play.

[CruX]

^^ like I said, I'm grateful he pointed out at least one problem within the first hour the map had been posted, because it really could've killed how the map was supposed to be progressed (and in his case, it did).

[Hank]

I like the map.
Super layout - imaginative - fast paced.

But I ain't a proper critic, it's either like or no like, for me. I happen to like complex maps.

[Micky C]

I didn't read MetHy's essay besides an ultra quick skim. I was a beta tester of the map and I really enjoyed it.

I'd give details but I'm in a rush atm.

[MetHy]

CruX, on 21 June 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

You mentioned that you retreated into the previous corridor to deal with the first swarm of bad guys. If that's how you prefer to even the odds, more power to you, but there's nothing I can do to keep that from happening. I didn't fail to take advantage of the larger space that I'd built, you chose to carry out the fight in a way that minimized it. Like I said, more power to you, I don't want to tell someone how to play a map, but it's kinda unfair to put the fault for that on me.

I think I got you confused in the area, i'm not talking about the first outdoor area at the very start of the map (didn't have much problem in that one except bumping into the decor) but of the one that's just before getting inside the building which has the teleporters.

With your explanation I understand now what you were going for with the layout, but I still think it could have been done a less confusing way. For instance you have the blue keycard be optional, while a crack is the important thing, when DN3D players are used to the contrary. Also the fact that one area or another is optional at the start help make it confusing too imo, it's not something you'd expect, and it did made me feel like the area with the blue keycard was pointless, for instance you could have made it so that instead of dropping through vents to get to the hangar from the other side, there could be a backdoor there also locked by the blue keycard, after all the player will want to check the area with the blue keycard regardless and it's better to check it first since the shotgun is there. Most players would keep the path they haven't been to in a side of their head and will go back to it after clearing the other path, only to realize they're turning in circle, and therefore (on top of having to hunt through functional doors and switches among all the decorative ones) may be confused about what he is expected to do.

Paul B, on 21 June 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

Map looks great from those screenshots! I'm interested in checking it out when I get some time. Don't take the advice that Methy throws at you to heart. Methy is a veteran & he see's your incredible talent and potential. He is just trying to make you aware of some of the things Duke players appreciate when playing a fun map. It is always a fine balance between detail and game play.

I'm not trying to claim I give an expert word of truth or whatever that is above anyone's, just giving my opinion.

[Polunka]

Have been playing this for 30 mins summarily, have just got to the moonbase where I'm supposed to get a keycard (according to the message from the computer screen), have yet to figure out how to do that. And yea, is that intended that I don't get a pistol at the beginning, maybe I missed it? (have fought my way through alien hordes with just a chaingun and a shotgun so far, not counting the RPG and bombs since there's really not much ammo for them) Another problem is, all throughout the map I experience heavy ammo scarcity (ammo to monster ratio is probably even less than 1) - is that some kinda a challenge you offer the player?

[Jblade]

CruX, on 21 June 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

^^ like I said, I'm grateful he pointed out at least one problem within the first hour the map had been posted, because it really could've killed how the map was supposed to be progressed (and in his case, it did).

I have to admit I did the same thing with the tripbombs, but I thought it was inentional as an optional shortcut since tripbombs are a bit tricky to use at times. Sorry for not letting you know about it since it looks like it wasn't intentional on your part.

[Polunka]

Huh, my lack of attention astonishes me to the degree where I just fuck myself with my own freshly ripped-out spine The pistol is actually accessible like near the starting point, I'd have simply had to kill about 10-15 foes with the chaingun to get it. But yea, the ammo scarcity complaint still works (tho the pistol in my arsenal would have definitely made progression easier).

About the map itself - it's just nice, I liked it (not gonna give any constructive criticism, just an opinion of a person not having ever been a mapper nor a mapping reviewer himself). I played on CGS, took me about 40 mins to reach the exit, found 3 outta 4 secrets (I think I knew where the 4th was but was kind obtuse to figure out how to open it).

Well, ammo scarcity made me hate this map at some points (once I had to kick some octabrain and enforcer asses with my mighty boot), and I think making player so rich on ammo at the very end of the map is sorta unreasonable in such a situation, like it's just 3 blords and you have like 30-40 rockets and full devastator (I'm talking about the secret munitions room where you have to use your shrinker, which in turn you get almost at the end; at least that's what happened to me, you can disprove my argument).

Design was not bad, the overrun base vibe included . Rooms were not cramped at all to me, I always had some free space to dodge monsters' attacks. Decorative doors/switches also didn't make me frown once, idk, I'm just kinda used to maps jammed with clutter (that includes inactive objects meant to be interactive as well).

Welp, that's all I can say (given I'm kinda lazy to type anything else ), I guess, MetHy has already made a nice review, tho it's still just his opinion.

P.S.: I'd definitely play something else from you, hope you'll keep on mapping
P.P.S.: Sorry if any parts of the text are incomprehensible, I'm not a native speaker plus I'm still being obtuse so my words may feel like a nonsense.

[Sanek]

Played it. It was a hard one, I took me 25 mins to finish.
I have a mixed feelings about this map:

Design. It looks more original than most of the maps released today, but I think it's way too cramped and I'm constantly noticing the stratched textures. Also, while this map have some shadows, it seems to me there's not enough work with lighting - instead of making some areas of the map stand out more than others, you use the same level of brightness throughout the whole level, and map look extremely bland because of it.

Gameplay. I like hard maps, and this is map is not as hard as the others might say (at least on Let's Rock), but there's a lot of times when you were stuck not because of the ammo, but because of the enemies that way too hard for you with the guns that you have. The fight with a commanders and battlelord at the end of the map (after you pick the red card) was a real chore, and it would be much easier if there will be more ammo for RPG.

I know I may sound like an asshole, but I don't like this map. It does not mean that I hate it - I appreciate the design of the map, and some original ideas that you put here (I also enjoyed you previous map, Supply Depot). But this map looks like a wasted opportunity to me. Maybe others will find it more enjoyable.

[Loke]

Great map, reminded me a bit of Military Madness. I didn't find it all that cramped to be honest though. The only problem I had was that the ammo was stingy as fuck especially at the beginning. I took a detour so I missed out on the pistol (finally found it after acquiring the red key card) -- ran through quite a bit of the map with only the ripper chaingun and a few trip bombs. Had to resort to kicking a few enemies to death. I guess this could also partly be my fault for not exploring the map enough.

The section at the end with the switch puzzle perplexed me a bit. I found the combination but it only opened that window which revealed the battlelord. What was the idea behind this exactly? Seems like I missed something.

Mikko Sandt's review btw: http://msdn.duke4.net/hottheroot.php

[CruX]

MetHy, on 21 June 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

With your explanation I understand now what you were going for with the layout, but I still think it could have been done a less confusing way. For instance you have the blue keycard be optional, while a crack is the important thing, when DN3D players are used to the contrary. Also the fact that one area or another is optional at the start help make it confusing too imo, it's not something you'd expect, and it did made me feel like the area with the blue keycard was pointless, for instance you could have made it so that instead of dropping through vents to get to the hangar from the other side, there could be a backdoor there also locked by the blue keycard, after all the player will want to check the area with the blue keycard regardless and it's better to check it first since the shotgun is there. Most players would keep the path they haven't been to in a side of their head and will go back to it after clearing the other path, only to realize they're turning in circle, and therefore (on top of having to hunt through functional doors and switches among all the decorative ones) may be confused about what he is expected to do.

See, this is another case where I think you and I just don't agree on what constitutes a vice and a virtue for a map, which is okay, but I feel like you've condemned it a bit too strongly on that very subjective basis. My goal for that first quarter of the map was for the progression to be unconventional and (relatively) nonlinear. You've talked a lot about it being confusing and not what DN3D players are used too without realizing that for that section I wanted the player to be confused. I wanted them to be caught off-guard. The whole point of it being unconventional is to take the player out of their comfort zone.

It is true that the LARD office is pointless, at least in terms of getting to the next section of the map, but I did what I could to give the player the opposite impression, it's the whole reason I put windows in those decorative doors, so the player could see the keycard and think it was important, only to find out in the end that no, they didn't need it at all. Of course, it'd still probably be a good thing that they went there, since it's the only place in the map where you could grab the pistol, and the only place where you could potentially get an early grab on the shotgun (i.e, there's one hidden in a secret area in the LARD office, and the pig cop guarding the card might drop one as well).

Sanek, on 22 June 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

Also, while this map have some shadows, it seems to me there's not enough work with lighting - instead of making some areas of the map stand out more than others, you use the same level of brightness throughout the whole level, and map look extremely bland because of it.

This actually wasn't something I deliberately eschewed, I just couldn't do all of the shading that I wanted to with the amount of walls I had. You might notice that the last few sectors of the lunar area are a bit under-detailed compared to the rest of the map, and that's because I literally hit the wall limit while I was building them. I'd hit 16000 walls about halfway through that section of the map and kept right on building thinking I had another thousand walls I could use only to find out that nope, I only like, 300 (they don't give you the exact figure in mapster but it's like, 16385 or something). When that happened I had to go back through what I already built and join some sectors and hack out some background scenery just to get the rest of it done. Ergo, some of the fancier shading had to go. It sucks, but it is what it is. Either way, sorry to hear you didn't like it. Some of the ideas I've been brainstorming on for future maps are a bit more straightforward, so maybe I'll win you over then

Loke, on 22 June 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Great map, reminded me a bit of Military Madness. I didn't find it all that cramped to be honest though. The only problem I had was that the ammo was stingy as fuck especially at the beginning. I took a detour so I missed out on the pistol (finally found it after acquiring the red key card) -- ran through quite a bit of the map with only the ripper chaingun and a few trip bombs. Had to resort to kicking a few enemies to death. I guess this could also partly be my fault for not exploring the map enough.

The section at the end with the switch puzzle perplexed me a bit. I found the combination but it only opened that window which revealed the battlelord. What was the idea behind this exactly? Seems like I missed something.

Mikko Sandt's review btw: http://msdn.duke4.net/hottheroot.php

Heh, that threw MickyC for a loop too, I honestly wasn't even expecting anybody to even bother with it (MickyC sure didn't), and it was kinda one of those things I did just because I could. Basically, the idea was that if you took the time to look at the view-screen and see the code and also commit it to memory (or screensave it), you'd be given a slight tactical advantage during that last fight in the root. Emphasis on the word "slight", but being able to open that shutter door would enable you to pick off the stayput battlelord that's outside of the blast shelter, so you wouldn't have to fight two or three of them at the same time.

It does kinda worry me that so many people are saying there wasn't enough ammo to get through the map, though. Believe it or not, I spent a lot of time doing test runs to figure out the ideal amount of ammo to drop in the beginning so that wouldn't happen (there are some chaingun ammo pickups that only appear in CGS for this reason). I ran thin sometimes, but never managed to run out. Kinda makes me wanna reupload another version with some more drops, but I also feel like it's a bit too late bother with it now. Stoked to hear that you and Mikko like it, though, because Baptized in Lunar Dust and Mikko's SP maps are my favorite high tech types, and what I kinda strive for in some ways.

[Loke]

CruX, on 22 June 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Basically, the idea was that if you took the time to look at the view-screen and see the code and also commit it to memory (or screensave it), you'd be given a slight tactical advantage during that last fight in the root. Emphasis on the word "slight", but being able to open that shutter door would enable you to pick off the stayput battlelord that's outside of the blast shelter, so you wouldn't have to fight two or three of them at the same time.

Yeah, that makes sense now.

CruX, on 22 June 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Stoked to hear that you and Mikko like it, though, because Baptized in Lunar Dust and Mikko's SP maps are my favorite high tech types, and what I kinda strive for in some ways.

Glad to hear that.

On an unrelated note -- over the last few years I've thought most people got tired of user maps so that's why I haven't posted my last few maps on this site. Given the response to this thread and a few others it actually seems like people do give a shit.

By the way, I forgot to mention the section when you use the switch to open the door to the server hub area there's a pig cop behind a sealed door that opens up. On the upper floor there's another door that leads to the pig cop room that's presumably broken. However, you can actually open this door (it's tagged as a ceiling door) and jump down. Problem is once you're down there you can't seem to get out. Added some screenshots below for better clarification.

[Sanek]

CruX, on 22 June 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

It does kinda worry me that so many people are saying there wasn't enough ammo to get through the map, though. Believe it or not, I spent a lot of time doing test runs to figure out the ideal amount of ammo to drop in the beginning so that wouldn't happen (there are some chaingun ammo pickups that only appear in CGS for this reason). I ran thin sometimes, but never managed to run out. Kinda makes me wanna reupload another version with some more drops, but I also feel like it's a bit too late bother with it now. Stoked to hear that you and Mikko like it, though, because Baptized in Lunar Dust and Mikko's SP maps are my favorite high tech types, and what I kinda strive for in some ways.

It was easier for you, because you already know where the enemies is, and you can save your ammo and health that way. If you have someone who tested this map, and he's got through the map as good as you do, there's any reason to blame yourself.
But yea, I still think that more RPG ammo would be nice (see the attachment to see what a jam I've got myself into).

Loke, on 23 June 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

By the way, I forgot to mention the section when you use the switch to open the door to the server hub area there's a pig cop behind a sealed door that opens up. On the upper floor there's another door that leads to the pig cop room that's presumably broken. However, you can actually open this door (it's tagged as a ceiling door) and jump down. Problem is once you're down there you can't seem to get out. Added some screenshots below for better clarification.

I hope it was made deliberately. When I opened the door I've already heard the pig cop's roam, so I threw a grenade. But I think you're right, there's no way out after you jump.

Loke, on 23 June 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

On an unrelated note -- over the last few years I've thought most people got tired of user maps so that's why I haven't posted my last few maps on this site. Given the response to this thread and a few others it actually seems like people do give a shit.

Wat? I've never heard such a thing from anyone on this forum. At least I don't think I've got tired of user maps. If people don't play user maps (or too busy), they just leave, so that's why the community is getting smaller and we got a fewer releases every year.
But if you ask me, I think the main problem is that people became too critical to other's work.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[icecoldduke]

CruX, on 22 June 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

It does kinda worry me that so many people are saying there wasn't enough ammo to get through the map, though.

When in doubt...add more ammo.

[zykov eddy]

I suggest adding pistol to the starting point. I wasted all my chaingun ammo on troopers, so when commanders arrived, they killed me easily.

Also, it's very easy to die when swimming out of hole in the pipe near the beginning, because sector effectors aren't placed correctly. It happened to me, and screwed up my progress.

[NightFright]

Yepp, it's about transporter SE sprites 454 and 516. You need to put them at the exact same location as their counterparts or you'll have problems.

[CruX]

^^ thanks. Map's been reposted with the tags fixed and a few other odds and ends cleaned up, as well as some more ammo drops. Can't say much more, running late for work.

[LkMax]

Is there an unspoken rule in the mapping community that every user map needs to have ammo starving?
(ps: just played the map and it's the first thing that stood out, hence the comment).

[deuxsonic]

Map seems kind of hard. I think it does relate to the above where there's almost no health and ammo.

[LeoD]

When I read "frag-fest" in the topic's description I thought "well, not so much for me, then". But - surprise - it turned out to be a great ride which perfectly fits my style of gameplay. Ammo was scarce at times, indeed, and I found only one secret. Concerning the "crampedness" I don't agree with other comments. I like all the detail you've put into it, and the default playing style of Duke maps does not need to be Doom-like. I'm quite used to back off from strong baddies, trap them behind a corner and take them out with weak weapons if necessary. My two main issues were: too many non-functional doors/door tiles and that I had to spawn a pipe bomb when I returned to the crack because I had used all explosives to survive until that point. (I know, experienced players should always spare one for cases like that, but still...)

[NightFright]

I have just finished playing the revised version of the map and found it much easier to survive now. However, this is mainly because of the fact that I managed to find the pistol and the blue keycard this time. It is possible to skip both and then the map is completely different and quite frustrating. While there is a way to get into the storage room (where you find the RPG) without the blue keycard, you may get stuck in the basement if you activate the garage lift and for some reason you don't enter it. Happened to me during the first playthrough. I think I don't have to explain what happens if you skip collecting the pistol. As others described before, there is also a chance that you don't have RPG ammo or pipebombs left to blow up the crack surrounded by caution tape, but since it's almost impossible not to see the crack in the beginning, it should be a signal for the player to save some explosives for that spot.

Anyway, after my second playthrough, I see where you wanted to go with the decision to start without pistol. It's also a struggle against ammo shortage, especially with the chaingun which is your main weapon at the beginning. I am fine with this decision and believe your revised map is definitely a great release and fun to play. If I had changed anything, then maybe I would have made it inevitable to find the pistol. Other than that, this is visually appealing, challenging and flows well.

On a side note:
There is an issue with the Polymer renderer that annoys me already since I played RED5. It involves some security monitor messages not being shown correctly/fully. If you switch to software rendering, it's looking fine. This is important here because it affects the info screen about the combo-switch lock towards the end of the level. Maybe the coding team can take a look at that.

[CruX]

Polunka, on 22 June 2016 - 12:17 AM, said:

and I think making player so rich on ammo at the very end of the map is sorta unreasonable in such a situation, like it's just 3 blords and you have like 30-40 rockets and full devastator (I'm talking about the secret munitions room where you have to use your shrinker, which in turn you get almost at the end; at least that's what happened to me, you can disprove my argument).

Yeah, I get what you mean, but I kinda wanted it to be that way. The munitions room was supposed to be sort of a reward for the player if they'd entered the lard office and/or bathrooms and remembered it by the time they had gotten the red key card. When I built it, I had nothing sketched for the lunar area and no plans for how I wanted the progression for it to go. I kinda feel like if the shrinker hadn't been involved in getting the red keycard, not as many people would've remembered to use it for the munitions room.

Course, none of that was really occurring to me at the time I was building it.

NightFright, on 24 June 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:

I see where you wanted to go with the decision to start without pistol. It's also a struggle against ammo shortage, especially with the chaingun which is your main weapon at the beginning. I am fine with this decision and believe your revised map is definitely a great release and fun to play. If I had changed anything, then maybe I would have made it inevitable to find the pistol.

Agreed, I think next time I start a map with a weapon other than the pistol, I'm going to make the majority of the initial fighting involve enemies that can't drop ammo for the weapon the player starts with, that way I'll have a better idea of how much ammo I actually need to provide.

[Merlijn]

Great map! I've played the most recent version and had no ammo problems.
I usually rely on my shotgun, so being restricted to the chaingun at the beginning was actually refreshing.
I tend to explore every nook and cranny of a map, so I didn't miss the pistol or any of the other weapons.

Someone mentioned MIlitary Madness, and your map does remind me of hi-tech levels from that era.
A well designed, highly detailled military base with some challenging firefights.

I kinda agree with Methy about the huge amount of fake doors and buttons though.
I usually don't mind fake doors at all, but in this case the map felt more restricted than necessary because there was so little to interact with.
That's the only downside I can think about though. Well done!

[max_nukem]

Very good map, with interesting gameplay and detailed environment, thanks!

[quakis]

Great level, enjoyed the high volume action and checking out the design. Review: http://taw.duke4.net...uke3d/the-root/

[CruX]

quakis, on 04 August 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

Great level, enjoyed the high volume action and checking out the design. Review: http://taw.duke4.net...uke3d/the-root/

I just recently started working on another more urban map that borrows a few smaller detail ideas from the Flaming Shipwreck, so I'm happy that this map got on your radar and even happier that you enjoyed it. Thanks for the review!

[Paul B]

CruX, on 06 August 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

I just recently started working on another more urban map that borrows a few smaller detail ideas from the Flaming Shipwreck, so I'm happy that this map got on your radar and even happier that you enjoyed it. Thanks for the review!

Were you planning on making any future changes or updates to this map? I really enjoyed the style of the map and the music fits perfectly. I was just playing the map but I haven't actually finished it yet. I managed to make it back from space but i'm not sure where to from there. In the process of back tracking I ended up in the area with the water sector and gear. Upon teleporting through the water with the spinning gear it killed me on the teleport or maybe i got squished. A little bit frustrating. Also I'm probably playing the map in Polymer and I saw a security camera showing a bunch of grey/black tiles i'm not sure what that is about? I'll try the map again in a different renderer next time.