[oasiz]

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Attached File(s)

•  ex_030.png (69.4K)
  Number of downloads: 218
•  ex_035.png (92.49K)
  Number of downloads: 198

[TerminX]

What area of the game is that? I don't remember it looking quite so good.

[MetHy]

It does look quite good Oasiz.

Attached File(s)

•  ex_586.png (69.47K)
  Number of downloads: 173
•  ex_589.png (80K)
  Number of downloads: 147

[oasiz]

Some nice stuff !
I don't remember seeing such architecture in any of the levels..

[HulkNukem]

PowerslaveEX Source Code was released
https://github.com/s...er/PowerslaveEX

[enderandrew]

I wonder if some of the PowerslaveEX code can be merged into EDuke 32. The PowerslaveEX engine was also used for the Nightdive Studios Turok release, so that code could be used to help get Turok running in EDuke 32 some day.

[Lunick]

enderandrew, on 19 January 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

I wonder if some of the PowerslaveEX code can be merged into EDuke 32. The PowerslaveEX engine was also used for the Nightdive Studios Turok release, so that code could be used to help get Turok running in EDuke 32 some day.

Why on Earth would that get merged into EDuke32? They're not Build engine games... you might as well ask for them to be merged into GZDoom too.

[Hendricks266]

enderandrew, on 19 January 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

I wonder if some of the PowerslaveEX code can be merged into EDuke 32. The PowerslaveEX engine was also used for the Nightdive Studios Turok release, so that code could be used to help get Turok running in EDuke 32 some day.

[Sledgehammer]

[Hank]

Lunick, on 19 January 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

some baby image
Why on Earth would that get merged into EDuke32? They're not Build engine games... you might as well ask for them to be merged into GZDoom too.

+
Hendricks266 other image

He wrote some i.e. whatever might be usefull to make Powerslave fully work in EDuke32 .

Obviously though, the collective answer is a resounding no, and ignorance is a cardinal sin around here

[Sledgehammer]

To be fair, it would be interesting to see DOS Powerslave (which is on Build Engine) on EDuke32.

[oasiz]

Unfortunately DOS one has no sources out there..
A bunch was documented so technically it shouldn't be too hard to get the maps and some basic stuff running.

However, it will be a reverse-engineering effort.

I think adding some patches to the DOS version would make it more playable.

[Sledgehammer]

No doubt someone has the source, just not us. Though maybe one day that someone will sell his machine and a buyer will find it and release it anonymously (or sell it on ebay like that guy who found Turok source on machine he bought).

It's a shame though, despite what people say about DOS version, I personally like it, my only issue about it was control and maybe not so good AI (which is weak likely because of bad control). And I can only imagine how good the game could be if it as on Blood's Build Engine version, really love this game and Ancient Egypt theme. Thanks for making that rad expansion, by the way, that was fucking great and unexpected since Powerslave in general isn't getting much love from anywhere (but at least nobody raped franchise by making horrible games I guess).

[enderandrew]

Lunick, on 19 January 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Why on Earth would that get merged into EDuke32? They're not Build engine games... you might as well ask for them to be merged into GZDoom too.

Powerslave is listed on Wikipedia is a Build engine game. Is it not?

[Player Lin]

enderandrew, on 20 January 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Powerslave is listed on Wikipedia is a Build engine game. Is it not?

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Kex_2

PowerslaveEX used Kex Engine 3, updated version of Kex Engine 2, is Kaiser's own engine based on DooM64EX engine, also his own engine too with reverse engineering the code of DooM 64 ROM.

And, I guess there won't be any of Build code in it... as it still a engine for DooM...

[Sledgehammer]

enderandrew, on 20 January 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Powerslave is listed on Wikipedia is a Build engine game. Is it not?

Not even console versions, only DOS version is on Build Engine which is considered the worst Powerslave version among many people who is somehow aware of this game. Kaiser's "port" or rather reverse-engineering effort is based on console versions which doesn't matter anyway since as Player Lin said, it uses Kex Engine instead of SlaveDriver Engine.

[Hendricks266]

Powerslave for the Saturn runs on the SlaveDriver engine. The source code exists.

Powerslave for the PlayStation uses a different engine due to hardware differences, but is mostly the same game as the Saturn version. The source code is thought lost.

Powerslave EX is a remake of the PlayStation version on Kaiser's custom engine. It is not a port, and "reverse-engineering" is a stretch as in this case it only applies to the assets such as art and levels.

Powerslave for DOS is the only version that runs on Build, and is the only game listed here eligible for support by the EDuke32 project. Its source is thought lost as well, but that's not going to stop me.

Turok is not and has never been a Build game.

[enderandrew]

Player Lin, on 20 January 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Kex_2

PowerslaveEX used Kex Engine 3, updated version of Kex Engine 2, is Kaiser's own engine based on DooM64EX engine, also his own engine too with reverse engineering the code of DooM 64 ROM.

And, I guess there won't be any of Build code in it... as it still a engine for DooM...

I get that, but PowerslaveEX is a homemade engine that can run Powerslave, which I believed to be a Build game. The point was that code from that could be useful for EDuke32 running another Build game, in how they interpreted some of the game logic, mapping specifics, etc.

Likewise, if someone wrote a new engine that ran Witchhaven, it could be used as a reference to add Witchhaven support to a Build source port.

[Micky C]

I sure hope you're using that "believed" properly and for the past tense. Whenever people in general talk about Powerslave they're most certainly referring to the console versions which has absolutely nothing to do with and is not even remotely related the build engine, period.

It's only our little corner of the internet that has interest in the very obscure PC version which just happens to run on build, and has many gameplay differences in addition to that.

Edit: I gather even stuff like the enemy AI which you're probably referring to is only an approximate adaption as well?

[enderandrew]

I never played it, so I'm not aware of differences between the different versions. I saw it on a list of Build engine games, and a thread here.

[oasiz]

Yeah... Console version is a totally different game to the DOS version.
While they share mostly the same sounds/graphics/story, how they store that data is already very different.
None of the maps share stuff, aside from some general location themes.

It's kind of silly how much effort was put in to making two games instead of one.

You should consider the console version a sort of sequel/reboot almost.
It uses the in-house slavedriver engine that was used with saturn duke3d/quake ports too.

Technically it's somewhere around quake but with slightly more advanced dynamic lights.
Engine is completely custom and specifically built for saturn hardware features.

[MrFlibble]

oasiz, on 20 January 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

It's kind of silly how much effort was put in to making two games instead of one.

IIRC some evidence surfaced a while ago which suggested that when Ruins was transferred from Apogee/3D Realms to Lobotomy it was already in a pretty advanced state of development, so they basically finished it while making their own console game with the same IP. Or am I being wrong here?

[MetHy]

No, those were assumptions I made but I was wrong. I got confused because of a magazine claiming Ruins was being developped by Apogee/3DRealms, but like often, they confused publisher and dev.

What happened is that Lobotomy was developping Ruins: Return To Gods from the beginning. 3DRealms was their publisher, at first, but quit on them so Lobotomy found another one.
I thought this might explains why they sticked to the earlier version of Build ; however when 3DRealms stopped supporting Blood it didn't make Monolith stick to the earlier Build version, then again 3DRealms may not have stopped supporting Ruins and Blood at the same time, but those are just more assumptions.

It was around that time that Lobotomy wanted to port the game to console as well, maybe it was part of the deal with the new publisher, but quickly realized that 2D engines wouldn't work well on Saturn (think Doom on Saturn) and decided to make a 3D one. At that precise moment in time, consoles were better for 3D.

[Defrago]

Hello everyone. Thanks for validating my account, took 5 days.

Exhumed is a game of my childhood. I were met it on PlayStation 1. Were stuck a while on a Set boss, thought there must be something more done to kill him. At this point I already had access to Cavern of Peril level, but couldn't exit the pit with an acid when you were need to jump up after activating a portrait, those pits were past by shooting that Mosquito-like things above the pit so they can drop a health orb which falls to the pit and when there is right amount of them - can save my life after falling. Death by crashing were still played but I stayed alive!

So there were PowerSlave Ex released recently, then source code of it. We should produce more of this great, but sadly short game. On a development screenshots I saw Blender app were used to create levels. Any guide to use this thing as a map editor? How to work with brushes, texture them, add an enemies, entities and triggers for PowerSlave? Several years ago I used Valve Hammer Editor to create some stuff for Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2: DM and Garry's Mod. Into a sourcecode of the PowerSlave Ex I found something related to MapEditor. I have very little experience with the code - used to mod some stuff for GTA SA-MP on pawno language. After installing Visual Studio 2008 on a Windows 10 virtual machine I have no luck opening it - it crashes with a "stopped work" every time I open any file.

We should recreate Saturn version as its level geometry sometimes completely different and the DOS version with it's completely different levels and sometimes even mechanics. For this thing we should somehow decompile maps of that games, or at least find a way to know brushes dimensions in digits. Otherwise it would take decades or hard and painful work no one would participate for free. I'm sure Kaiser had something helpful while mapped an entire game. Currently it's unknown for me how to extract additional textures from a Saturn and a DOS version. PlayStation ones are all there so I might try something when I learn how to use stuff for creating maps.

[cybdmn]

Defrago, on 23 January 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

On a development screenshots I saw Blender app were used to create levels. Any guide to use this thing as a map editor?

I asked Kaiser back then.

https://www.doomworl...vb/post/1376679


That does not mean, that it is impossible to use Blender as an map editor, but you need someone who can write an exporter for Blender.

[Defrago]

Quote

Just for viewing. Sorry.

That's why no one creating new levels? No stuff for this? There is some references to some Map Editor into source code but

Quote

Visual Studio 2008 on a Windows 10 virtual machine crashes every time I open any file with 'vcexpress has stopped working'

[Defrago]

Quote

That's why no one creating new levels? No stuff for this? There is some references to some Map Editor into source code

Managed to install Vista x64 VM and Visual Studio 2008 C++ Express on it. Code is now viewable but I can't build it. You can see why at the soucecode page on a github.

Map Editor mentioned before seems to be an overlay map editor, a minor feature very few people ever use I think. It has nothing to do with a .MAP, Level Editor.

Via the code I recently found somewhat regarding dumping Saturn and the DOS levels. Kaiser not only thought about them too, but really did something! It's already into anubis.exe, there are commands dumpsaturnmap and dumpbuildmap. I managed to get a bunch of TXTs with level information from a Saturn's TOMB.LEV and an .obj file from a DOS version which I imported with Blender with absolutely no idea how to handle it. Some screensots:


Opening .MAP files from the DOS version of the Exhumed and PowerSlave Ex with XVI32 gave me no idea how to create one, there is no references to any tool I might know.

[sirlemonhead]

The vertex data in the Saturn levels is of quite low precision and full of T-Junctions so you get lots of seams when rendering them with Direct3D.

Does his code do anything to alleviate the problem?

Textures are easy enough to dump but some use custom pallets which are hard coded into the source code, so you need to know what to do for those in certain cases.

[Defrago]

sirlemonhead, on 25 January 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

Does his code do anything to alleviate the problem?

Not sure. I'm not very good with code as of now. You can see by yourself - code is freely available.

Quote

Textures are easy enough to dump but some use custom pallets which are hard coded into the source code, so you need to know what to do for those in certain cases.

Currently I'm looking for any tool allowing to create or customize existing level. PlayStation textures are enough as of now, I will look for more if I'll get any success with creating new levels.

[oasiz]

Spoiler

//
// kexDataConvert::DumpSaturnLevelData
//

kexBinFile mapFile;
    int numSectors, numFaces, numVertices, numPolys, numGenTextures;
    int numUnknown[9];
    saturnSector_t *sectors;
    saturnFace_t *faces;
    saturnVertex_t *vertices;
    saturnPoly_t *polys;
    kexStr fPath;
    int16_t *lookupTable[2];
    int missingFaces = 0;
    FILE *f;
....
for(int i = 0; i < numSectors; ++i)
    {
        sectors[i].u1               = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].u2               = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].ceilSlope        = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].floorSlope       = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].ceilingHeight    = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].floorHeight      = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].faceStart        = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].faceEnd          = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].lightLevel       = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].flags            = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].u3               = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        sectors[i].u4               = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
    }

    for(int i = 0; i < numFaces; ++i)
    {
        faces[i].normal[0]          = kex::cEndian->SwapBE32(mapFile.Read32());
        faces[i].normal[1]          = kex::cEndian->SwapBE32(mapFile.Read32());
        faces[i].normal[2]          = kex::cEndian->SwapBE32(mapFile.Read32());
        faces[i].angle              = kex::cEndian->SwapBE32(mapFile.Read32());
        faces[i].u1                 = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].u2                 = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].flags              = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].genTextureID       = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].polyStart          = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].polyEnd            = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].vertexStart        = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].vertexEnd          = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].polyVert[0]        = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].polyVert[1]        = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].polyVert[2]        = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].polyVert[3]        = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].sector             = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].lookup1            = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].u3                 = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        faces[i].u4                 = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
    }

    for(int i = 0; i < numVertices; ++i)
    {
        vertices[i].x               = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        vertices[i].y               = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        vertices[i].z               = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        vertices[i].light           = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
    }

    for(int i = 0; i < numPolys; ++i)
    {
        polys[i].indices[0]         = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        polys[i].indices[1]         = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        polys[i].indices[2]         = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        polys[i].indices[3]         = kex::cEndian->SwapBE16(mapFile.Read16());
        polys[i].texture            = mapFile.Read8();
        polys[i].u1                 = mapFile.Read8();
    }

Based on quick guesses..
This seems to have the main "meat" of the map format.
It's somewhat BUILD inspired, being sector based and relies on 3D polygons.
Sector looks for faces, faces look for polys and so on..
Kinda reminds of build looking for: sector -> wall, wall references the next wall, etc..

Editor would need to be similar to a modelling program and it seems that you'd need to be able to define sectors individually too.
Basically something you might want to create from scratch, but would take quite a bit of time.
Devs likely had the level data in a different format with their own editor, before it was "compiled" to what it is.

Manual labor. Hope to see it some day but I just want to be clear here again that Console and DOS version share nothing in their engine.
Source code / tools for any of them won't help the other one.