[Tea Monster]

The lighting is much better with the new file. I've made a vid but the gamma is way off on the recording.

Max FPS 202
Min FPS 45

Win 10 - I7 3820 and GeForce GTX 760 with 4gb of VRAM.

EDIT: Average framerate was about 100-120. It dipped down below 80 when I got to in front of the cinema.

[Paul B]

It's Canada Day here so I'm going to have to head out and take the wife to see the festivities.

[icecoldduke]

So the min fps I noticed seems to come from the first few frames when you enter the level. Tea Monster what was your average framerate playing through the map?

Have a good Canada day Paul, thanks for testing the build.

[icecoldduke]

So I figured out the problem with the ambient calculation, so to fix it I'm adding ambient sector effectors around. The ambient sector effector will have a lotag of 100, and the hitag would point to a entry in a list in the maphack file for each map that has a predefined RGB value. I like this better then sector palettes because your not restricted to whatever colors are in the palette. I forsee this mostly being used for out door stuff as regular lights can be used for faking GI, but I've found some use cases for it in doors.



I have taken down the build, I got all the information I need. Thanks to everyone who tried the first release of PolymerNG! .

[Micky C]

Aww damn I never got a chance to try it out

[Steveeeie]

Micky C, on 02 July 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

Aww damn I never got a chance to try it out

Same

[Steveeeie]

Things at a distance look really grainy, how much of this is to do with the textures and how much is to do with the renderer?

[Mark]

I have been wondering about that too. But I assumed/hoped it is something that will be addressed later and didn't say anything.

[Tea Monster]

There are also some light leak issues around doors and there is a bright line under the crate. I'll post a video soon. Do you mind it being on youtube?

I've added the average frame rate to my original post so you aren't looking in two places for the info.

[icecoldduke]

Steveeeie, on 02 July 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

Things at a distance look really grainy, how much of this is to do with the textures and how much is to do with the renderer?

If your looking at Paul B's first video's that error has been fixed, if not can you please screen grab one of the frames in the videos / grab one of the screen shots and draw a red rectangle around the area your talking about?

Tea Monster, on 02 July 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

There are also some light leak issues around doors and there is a bright line under the crate. I'll post a video soon. Do you mind it being on youtube?

I'm aware of the light leaking. Some of it is caused by the walls not completely touching the floors/ceilings(this definitely is the case with swinging doors). The specular I also think has a bug were its drawing two sided for some reason, but please post a video a video on youtube(or whatever service) so I know were talking about the same thing.

The reason I took the other build down was because of the nasty ambient bug that appeared on Paul B's and Tea Monsters box(which did cause a lot of nasty graininess). Even though that bug has been fixed, my solution requires me to in and add ambient sector effectors to each sector. I might as well go in and fix the Windows 7 issue as well, and get a couple more things in. I'll release a refresh build soon.

[icecoldduke]

Mark., on 02 July 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

I have been wondering about that too. But I assumed/hoped it is something that will be addressed later and didn't say anything.

If anyone sees something graphically wrong please post about it. I would rather have to bug scrub through dupes then not have the bug report at all .

[icecoldduke]

One feature you guys can expect to see in the next build is, mask walls will now cast alpha shadows(this is one of my internal testing maps).

[Steveeeie]

icecoldduke, on 02 July 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

If your looking at Paul B's first video's that error has been fixed, if not can you please screen grab one of the frames in the videos / grab one of the screen shots and draw a red rectangle around the area your talking about?

Sorry, there is no point in me drawing a red box as I would be circling the whole thing.

Here is a side by side with polymer on the left and NG on the right. NG is noisy and has no filtering at all so it makes the high res art look worse than the 8bit art.

This might be the look you are going for but it looks fucking horrible.

[icecoldduke]

Steveeeie, on 02 July 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Sorry, there is no point in me drawing a red box as I would be circling the whole thing.

Here is a side by side with polymer on the left and NG on the right. NG is noisy and has no filtering at all so it makes the high res art look worse than the 8bit art.

This might be the look you are going for but it looks fucking horrible.

I agree that looks awful. I'll look into it.

[Steveeeie]

icecoldduke, on 02 July 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

One feature you guys can expect to see in the next build is, mask walls will now cast alpha shadows(this is one of my internal testing maps).

While very nice, this seems like gold plating and is a little frustrating to see when there are still many outstanding bugs that have been around since the start and features people have been waiting for so that they can make a start on things like the FBX models and finalised material set up are getting ignored.

[icecoldduke]

Steveeeie, on 02 July 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

While very nice, this seems like gold plating and is a little frustrating to see when there are still many outstanding bugs that have been around since the start and features people have been waiting for so that they can make a start on things like the FBX models and finalised material set up are getting ignored.

FBX model support has been working for some time, I just haven't made anything with it yet. Currently the mesh import tool supports a wide range of model formats.

Code for the tool as evidence .
https://github.com/j...ldTool/Main.cpp

Materials I agree should be next on the agenda after I figure out whats wrong with the noisy bump maps.

[Steveeeie]

icecoldduke, on 02 July 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

Materials I agree should be next on the agenda after I figure out whats wrong with the noisy bump maps.

I know this is probably a pipe dream, but would it be possible to allow emissive materials to effect the world like in the unreal engine? will give a more accurate light shape and colour than placing a round omni light.

http://docs.unrealen...tolighttheworld

[icecoldduke]

Steveeeie, on 02 July 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

I know this is probably a pipe dream, but would it be possible to allow emissive materials to effect the world like in the unreal engine? will give a more accurate light shape and colour than placing a round omni light.

http://docs.unrealen...tolighttheworld

I would have to do more research into exactly what they are doing(I have a idea, but I don't want to say anything until I know for certain). I can say for certain I can give you area lights similar too

https://www.shadertoy.com/view/lsfGDN

or

https://www.shadertoy.com/view/4dVGDt

[Danukem]

icecoldduke, on 02 July 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

I'm aware of the light leaking. Some of it is caused by the walls not completely touching the floors/ceilings(this definitely is the case with swinging doors).

It is completely normal for doors to have small gaps. It's one of the ways that players can tell a locked door from a wall with a door texture. Once the bugs are fixed, I think it would be nice to have some light leaking out in the spaces under doors and and gaps near swing doors (assuming it looked realistic).

[Steveeeie]

Um, noob question...

If I open the solution in VS Community 2015 I get the following, what am I doing wrong, does VSC not have the necessary features?

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[icecoldduke]

There should be a log telling you why the projects didn't load. I'm using 2015 community edition with update 2. If you just want to try out a build I would ask you would wait until I fix some of the issues you guys noticed.

[icecoldduke]

So I looked at the wall textures in PIX to check for texture compression artifacts, and it seems ok. I noticed the normal maps and spec maps for tile 723 are noiser then I expected(based on the results in Polymer). Here is a screenshot without albedo, lighting only, PolymerNG.

[Steveeeie]

icecoldduke, on 02 July 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

So I looked at the wall textures in PIX to check for texture compression artifacts, and it seems ok. I noticed the normal maps and spec maps for tile 723 are noiser then I expected(based on the results in Polymer). Here is a screenshot without albedo, lighting only, PolymerNG.

The textures are fine.

The reason they look too noisy from a distance is because you have absolutely no anti-aliasing

[icecoldduke]

Steveeeie, on 02 July 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

The textures are fine.

The reason they look too noisy from a distance is because you have absolutely no anti-aliasing

I'll look into this more later on today or tomorrow. I'm going to look at some other things right now.

[Paul B]

Steveeeie, on 02 July 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

Things at a distance look really grainy, how much of this is to do with the textures and how much is to do with the renderer?

I wonder if part of the texture fuzziness isn't a symptom of me down scaling the video from raw avi to mp4 compression and reducing the quality of the video for the internet sharing. This could potentially be a FRAPS thing or video conversion symptom. The screenshots I took from in game don't look nearly as bad as the videos then again i'm not comparing my screenshots to Polymer which would be a better comparison.

[Mblackwell]

Steveeeie, on 02 July 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Sorry, there is no point in me drawing a red box as I would be circling the whole thing.

Here is a side by side with polymer on the left and NG on the right. NG is noisy and has no filtering at all so it makes the high res art look worse than the 8bit art.

This might be the look you are going for but it looks fucking horrible.


gross.jpg

You should crank up the AF in Polymer. Just saying your screen on the Polymer side is a bit blurrier than necessary.

Polymer NG looks not only heavily unfiltered, but also like there's sharpening applied. The lighting across the normals in general looks noisy, perhaps the math is a bit off.

[icecoldduke]

Paul B, on 02 July 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

I wonder if part of the texture fuzziness isn't a symptom of me down scaling the video from raw avi to mp4 compression and reducing the quality of the video for the internet sharing. This could potentially be a FRAPS thing or video conversion symptom. The screenshots I took from in game don't look nearly as bad as the videos then again i'm not comparing my screenshots to Polymer which would be a better comparison.

The compression issues are definitely making the problem look worse then it is, but if you look at my screenshot the normals have more detail then what I can see in Polymer.

Mblackwell, on 02 July 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

You should crank up the AF in Polymer. Just saying your screen on the Polymer side is a bit blurrier than necessary.

Polymer NG looks not only heavily unfiltered, but also like there's sharpening applied. The lighting across the normals in general looks noisy, perhaps the math is a bit off.

If you look at the screenshot I can't necessarily agree there is a math problem, and don't judge the gravity of situation by the quality of the video posted. What I've found in Polymer the detail of the normals fades away the farther the camera gets from the surface. There are plenty ways to achieve this, but I think that's why there is a visual normal delta between PolymerNG and Polymer. There could be a math issue on top of this, which I can only rule out with testing, but the fact that detail fades away in Polymer is significant factor in why Polymer doesn't look so noisy.

[Mblackwell]

The Polymer shot looks like it only has bilinear filtering.

In your case the texture scale is also incorrect which probably doesn't help.

[icecoldduke]

There is no filtering on any of the textures as well so I imagine thats part of it.

[Mblackwell]

I guess fix those two things up first and see what you get!