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Blood corner  "For Blood 1 & 2 related talk."

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#511

Meanwhile Kaiser (Doom 64 EX, Turok EX, Powerslave EX) changed his profile pic too to the one Nightdive's using:
https://twitter.com/svkaiser
I think that pretty much confirms that it's going to be Blood EX, Kaiser's Blood "source port" for the Kex Engine. He showed a bit of it last year:

So the purists out there who'd like to see an actual sourc port for the game will be let down I guess. The way I see it Kex is a great engine with a lot of flexibility so accuracy is absolutely possible and if you look at the video you can notice that stuff like the colors are right (something that's BloodGDX is not capable to recreate just yet).
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 890

#512

I sure hope custom maps and the like are able to instantly work if it isn't a source port. That's a nice thing about BloodGDX, I'm able to play lots of custom maps, like the Deathwish mod, with (seemingly) no issues and there's no need to wait for someone to port it.
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User is offline   Tekedon 

  • 56

#513

If that is the case.. then BloodGDX is the better choice, atleast for me. It is identical almost and also like HulkNukem said you are able to play addons and maps for the original game, and that is VERY important according to me. But ofcourse I would give Blood EX a chance.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#514

View PostHulkNukem, on 30 October 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

I sure hope custom maps and the like are able to instantly work if it isn't a source port. That's a nice thing about BloodGDX, I'm able to play lots of custom maps, like the Deathwish mod, with (seemingly) no issues and there's no need to wait for someone to port it.

Yeah, that's a downer for sure but if it's a good version of the game overall then I think it will be a temporary downer. Keep in mind that Kex is more advanced than any Build source port so far (though I'm sure EDuke32 will change that in time thanks to Ion Maiden) and Nightdive likes to remaster old stuff so I'm sure this is going to be a graphically remastered version and not just your run of the mill port like Duke Megaton and SW Redux were. Now if they do that right and they have working multiplayer out of the box done through Steam then this will be a winner. It will be a nice clean DirectX 11 remaster, basically "Duke World Tour but done right" and that's awesome.

And of course Kex has Steam workshop support and easy moddability so modding won't be a problem even if compatibility with existing stuff won't be a thing. If I were them I'd sure as shit make Death Wish into an official expansion though.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 30 October 2018 - 12:38 PM

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User is offline   Master O 

  • 84

#515

View PostZaxx, on 30 October 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Meanwhile Kaiser (Doom 64 EX, Turok EX, Powerslave EX) changed his profile pic too to the one Nightdive's using:
https://twitter.com/svkaiser
I think that pretty much confirms that it's going to be Blood EX, Kaiser's Blood "source port" for the Kex Engine. He showed a bit of it last year:

So the purists out there who'd like to see an actual sourc port for the game will be let down I guess. The way I see it Kex is a great engine with a lot of flexibility so accuracy is absolutely possible and if you look at the video you can notice that stuff like the colors are right (something that's BloodGDX is not capable to recreate just yet).


As long as the original single player campaigns play accurately, I don't think even purists would have that much of a problem. Ideally though, having the Blood source code finally open sourced would solve a lot of problems from a technical point of view.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#516

View PostMaster O, on 30 October 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Ideally though, having the Blood source code finally open sourced would solve a lot of problems from a technical point of view.

Yes, arguably having the source itself released would worth more than a remaster.
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User is offline   Master O 

  • 84

#517

View PostZaxx, on 30 October 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yes, arguably having the source itself released would worth more than a remaster.


If SVKaiser is using the Kex engine, doesn't that also mean he'd also have successfully reverse-engineered Blood?
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User is offline   SonicB00M 

  • 22

#518

No reverse-engineering needed if you have legal access to the source code.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#519

View PostSonicB00M, on 30 October 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

No reverse-engineering needed if you have legal access to the source code.

That's the interesting part: if Nightdive got its hands on the IP then they should have the source code. Theoretically if Kaiser worked from the source then he could port all the game logic to the Kex Engine just fine, right (as far as I know he designed Kex for that kind of stuff)? And if he did that then old level packs should work, right?

I have no idea what I'm talking about to be honest. :D

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 30 October 2018 - 05:16 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#520

Anyway someone should look up how Nightdive made the new System Shock source port that's also running on Kex because they sure as shit have the source code for System Shock.

Edit: Here's an article on it:
https://www.pcgamer....al-mod-support/
They say mods made for the original game work on this thing.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 30 October 2018 - 05:23 PM

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User is offline   Master O 

  • 84

#521

View PostZaxx, on 30 October 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

Anyway someone should look up how Nightdive made the new System Shock source port that's also running on Kex because they sure as shit have the source code for System Shock.

Edit: Here's an article on it:
https://www.pcgamer....al-mod-support/
They say mods made for the original game work on this thing.


System Shock's source code (MAC Edition) is freely available:

https://github.com/N...tudios/shockmac

It was released a couple years ago, iirc.

This post has been edited by Master O: 30 October 2018 - 06:10 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#522

View PostMaster O, on 30 October 2018 - 06:10 PM, said:

System Shock's source code (MAC Edition) is freely available:

https://github.com/N...tudios/shockmac

It was released a couple years ago, iirc.

Aaand your point is...?
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User is offline   Master O 

  • 84

#523

View PostZaxx, on 30 October 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

Aaand your point is...?


Oh, I thought you didn't know it was released. I misinterpreted your statement about the System Shock port.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#524

View PostMaster O, on 30 October 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

Oh, I thought you didn't know it was released. I misinterpreted your statement about the System Shock port.

Oh, ok. Here I was thinking I missed something (and I sure did btw.). :D
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User is offline   Newken 

  • 19

#525

Death Wish v1.5 has been released:
https://www.moddb.co...s/death-wish-15
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador
  • 5,558

  #526

Any commercial version of Blood that isn't running on the Build engine is nothing but a knock-off and an attempt to subvert the engine's licensing fees.

EDuke32 wiki svn builds bugs
Join us in #eduke32 on irc.freenode.net!
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User is offline   Dzierzan 

  • 27

#527

Well spoken TerminX. I am also not convinced to this new port. If enemies or weapons feel off then it's not a port for me. BloodGDX might be not perfect, but at least gameplay wise is accurate, at least for my taste.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#528

View PostTerminX, on 31 October 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

Any commercial version of Blood that isn't running on the Build engine is nothing but a knock-off and an attempt to subvert the engine's licensing fees.

Come on, that may be true in some cases but it sure isn't when it comes to Nightdive: they got the IP but when it came to licensing Build they were like "oh shit, this is too much for us, this 20 year old cutting edge technology is too expensive to license"? I don't think it's about licensing fees but simply about development costs: when you have an engine that was literally made for porting other games to it and it's already running on all platforms I don't think you'll spend money on Build and start from scratch.

And really Nightdive is yet to fuck up one of these remasters so when it comes to complaining I'll just wait for the moment when I see what they're doing and notice something that's wrong.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 31 October 2018 - 10:22 AM

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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God
  • 930

#529

System Shock EE never happened?

Lunick: I can't believe you can pre-order Duke Nukem 3D in 2016
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#530

View PostDaedolon, on 31 October 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

System Shock EE never happened?

Never played it. What was wrong with it?
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#531

These guys are bleeding really badly now:
Posted Image
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 956

#532

The Turok remasters were OK since they brought console titles to PC with subtle but sensible changes. Stuff like the Strife remaster or Blood EX (if it's really that) belong into the trash. Strife I am playing with GZDoom and BloodGDX is decent enough to serve as a port until EDuke32 can handle all Build games one day. Shadow Warrior is what I am missing the most right now.
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User is online   axl 

  • 182

#533

View PostNightFright, on 31 October 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

The Turok remasters were OK since they brought console titles to PC with subtle but sensible changes. Stuff like the Strife remaster or Blood EX (if it's really that) belong into the trash. Strife I am playing with GZDoom and BloodGDX is decent enough to serve as a port until EDuke32 can handle all Build games one day. Shadow Warrior is what I am missing the most right now.


Pardon my french, but to lable something as "trash" before a product is even released is quite ignorant. At the moment we don't know anything about this "blood remaster" (if it is even that). All we have is a video of an alpha version of Blood ex (which is almost 1 year old...).

I also don't understand the criticism regarding Night Dive Studios and more specifically Kaiser. I own the original versions of Doom 64, Powerslave, Turok 1 and 2 on their respective consoles and I find that the remasters for these games are of an incredible high quality.

I do agree with you on the fact that if one day EDuke32 will handle all build games, that would be far superior. But this will probably take several years. The source code for Shadow Warrior has been available since 2003 and is not yet supported by EDuke32. If Night Dive Studios have indeed secured the rights for Blood, this is awesome news. Not only would that mean that we probably get a great remaster, there is also hope that they will someday release the source code for Blood...
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User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 344

#534

Aren't the Strife source ports all based on reverse engineering by Kaiser?
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#535

View PostPhredreeke, on 31 October 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Aren't the Strife source ports all based on reverse engineering by Kaiser?

Chocolate Strife to be exact. From the Wiki:

In early 2010, James Haley and Samuel Villarreal (Kaiser) began an intensive reverse engineering project targeting the Rogue Entertainment game Strife: Quest for the Sigil, for which the source code has been lost. Working from the Doom and Heretic code and analyzing the game's internal logic with professional reverse engineering tools, a painstaking effort was made to reproduce the entire code base as accurately as possible. This development was done in a revision control branch called strife-branch, branched from and developed in parallel with raven-branch. Two beta releases were made from this branch during its development.
https://doomwiki.org...ate_Doom#Strife

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 31 October 2018 - 11:48 AM

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User is offline   cybdmn 

  • 16

#536

View PostPhredreeke, on 31 October 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Aren't the Strife source ports all based on reverse engineering by Kaiser?



More or less. There where others helped him, like Quasar. Basically, it is based on Chocolate Strife, which is based on Chocolate Strife and svStrife, an older reverse engineered port by done by Kaiser, and his Kex Engine.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#537

View Postcybdmn, on 31 October 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

More or less. There where others helped him, like Quasar. Basically, it is based on Chocolate Strife, which is based on Chocolate Strife and svStrife, an older reverse engineered port by done by Kaiser, and his Kex Engine.

Veteran Edition is not Kex though and even when it comes to svStrife the Wiki states it's based on PrBoom:
https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/SvStrife
But of course Kex itself is based on the Doom engine so I guess there is a connection somewhere.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#538

View Postaxl, on 31 October 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

At the moment we don't know anything about this "blood remaster" (if it is even that). All we have is a video of an alpha version of Blood ex (which is almost 1 year old...).

That's more like 2 years. What I posted is not the original video but a later Youtube-upload, the original is in some old Twitter reply from Kaiser. He posted the first screenshots from Blood EX in 2016.

Quote

Not only would that mean that we probably get a great remaster, there is also hope that they will someday release the source code for Blood...

Yeah, that's why I don't get this instant hate either. I know the original game like the back of my hand, it's my absolutel favourite Build title. That also means that I'll never "lose" the original game and the care of the community is there too so BloodGDX and eventually EDuke32 will be there for an accurate experience if Blood EX is not that.

So to me the important thing is that finally something is happening with the franchise and whatever official stuff comes next I'll support it because it's not the Build engine that I love but the games made for it. I couldn't care less about what engine the game is running on as long as it plays and feels like Blood (which it will because even if you analyze the shit out of the pre-alpha video that looks and feels like Blood).

And really it's just weird to see that some of the people who are complaining for the lack of Build and accuracy are people who supported BloodCM, an EDuke32 Frankenstein monster that was inaccurate as fuck (sorry, M210 :D). Now even if Blood EX will have minor accuracy issues it won't be like BloodCM.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 31 October 2018 - 12:23 PM

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User is offline   cybdmn 

  • 16

#539

View PostZaxx, on 31 October 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

Veteran Edition is not Kex though and even when it comes to svStrife the Wiki states it's based on PrBoom:
https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/SvStrife
But of course Kex itself is based on the Doom engine so I guess there is a connection somewhere.



Uh, please use the right Doom Wiki, the informations there are much more precise.

https://doomwiki.org...Veteran_Edition


And of cousre they used Kex, for example for the enhanced lighting.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 467

#540

View Postcybdmn, on 31 October 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

Uh, please use the right Doom Wiki, the informations there are much more precise.

https://doomwiki.org...Veteran_Edition


And of cousre they used Kex, for example for the enhanced lighting.

As I've said I'm sure there is a connection but Veteran Edition is not listed as a Kex Engine game. Even the page you linked only says that a lot of the rendering is based on Kex 2 which is like "sure, still not a Kex Engine game".

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 31 October 2018 - 12:30 PM

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