[DustFalcon85]

Just made a thread specifically for the cult PC DOS game Blood and it's glitch filled sequel Blood 2: The Chosen. Demanding Atari and WB to make Blood open source.

I'll start off w/ this tweet.

https://twitter.com/...302717962346496

and this

http://www.hardcoreg...blood/blood.htm

[HulkNukem]

Blood is such an awesome game that absolutely needs the source released, I didn't play it in the 90s nor 00s, only recently this last year through an eduke remake... thing? It was super buggy and hadn't been worked on for a long while, so I'm pretty sure it was abandoned but it was pretty solid so far.

[Micky C]

Can we please just call them threads and not corners. I don't know why but seeing a dozen "XXXX corner" threads is giving me a headache.

[Fantinaikos]

Quote

so I'm pretty sure it was abandoned

Nope.

http://m210.duke4.net/

http://m210.duke4.ne...d-crossmatching

[HulkNukem]

SCHWING!

Holy crap thats it! I didn't think it was actually updated.

[Fantinaikos]

HulkNukem, on 11 March 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

SCHWING!

Holy crap thats it! I didn't think it was actually updated.

Pretty strange, M210 has informed everyone relatively recently.

https://forums.duke4...tc-for-eduke32/

Even the HRP has got updated.

[LkMax]

Micky C, on 11 March 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Can we please just call them threads and not corners. I don't know why but seeing a dozen "XXXX corner" threads is giving me a headache.

That's because there's so many corners now it turned into a labyrinth. =P
(my Wolf corner was a silly reference to Doom corner, and then a few users started rapidly building corners over Duke 4 City)

[HulkNukem]

Fantinaikos, on 11 March 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

Pretty strange, M210 has informed everyone relatively recently.

https://forums.duke4...tc-for-eduke32/

Even the HRP has got updated.

Wow, I was given a link to download it a while ago and it was a 2013 build and I was under the impression it was no longer being worked on; had no idea it originated from here! Thats great, I'll have to give a donation out

[MetHy]

Ah, yesterday I played Somewhere Under The Sea, a 3 maps episode based on Bioshock.

Micky C, on 11 March 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Can we please just call them threads and not corners. I don't know why but seeing a dozen "XXXX corner" threads is giving me a headache.

Anyway this was pretty good, up until the end. I got stuck at the end and didn't play the last couple of rooms though. There was the last door, requiring the sword key, and before that, another door, with the key inside. That door never opened, I'm not sure if it was a glitch or not but it looked like one. So I clipped my way through only to realize the boss of Plasma Pack waiting for me inside. As I was low on health (4hp) AND on ammo, I couldn't take him down, plus since the door never opened, I was forced to fight him inside that tiny room which was hopeless even at full health. So I clipped my way through both rooms and decided I was done.

Other than that; it was a very solid episode. It's only 3 maps but map#1 and #3 are average sized, and map 2 is rather long.

I rank this episode above French Meat. On the same level of RATM, or maybe even better, although gameplay might be a little too shotgun oriented. Totally recommended, though.

But if you guys haven't yet played Death Wish, you need to get onto that as soon as you read this.

[PsychoGoatee]

Blood is cool, definitely a gem. I did buy Blood 2 when it was new and that is definitely memorably bad. Blood is for me tougher than Duke 3D or Shadow Warrior, and that's even more so if you pick a difficulty lower than Lightly Broiled, because of the weird save glitch that makes you take extra damage if you load a save. Described on a post further down the page in this gog topic. Granted you just throw dynamite a lot to make up for it, but those tommy gun monks can be a nuisance. Still, definitely a classic.

I just tried some BloodCM f or the first time just now, very very cool port.

[MetHy]

Can't we get a BLOOD thread anymore without talks about its various fan made bootlegs?! There are already many threads for those...

Micky C, on 11 March 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Can we please just call them threads and not corners. I don't know why but seeing a dozen "XXXX corner" threads is giving me a headache.

I'm sorry I think I started that with the Doom thread

[Micky C]

I miss the days when people would hijack related threads to talk about other games in the franchise instead of making a corner for every 90's game. It's part of the Duke4.net way.

MetHy, on 11 March 2016 - 10:54 PM, said:

There are already many threads for those...

But no corners until now anyway.

I can hardly believe monolith shipped the game with such an obvious game save bug, a real shame. Movement and aiming in dosbox (even with bmouse) feels a bit off for me. That and a few other minor issues makes me hold off in hopes that something like BloodXL might be a good enough representation to substitute.

[MetHy]

I'm not too bothered by the difficulty glitch as I've always played on skill3 or 4. It's only really a problem with skill5 imo, as 1 and 2 are meaningless.

I made a video playthrough of the first map of Death Wish a while back

[deuxsonic]

Can the source code just come out already? Wasn't Jason Hall talking like he had access to it at one point? It's out there somewhere. This is such a fun game and it deserves a source port to bring it out of the DOS ages.

[Kristian Joensen]

Some might claim that it is all nostalgia but the 90s was quite the gaming decade, atleast when it came to FPSs. Blood is certainly a pearl. It seems it has all degenerated into military shooters now, with yearly incarnations to top it off.

People talk about level design in the 90s versus now and that is very important, but where have all the FPS games with the following gone?:

1. Absence of draconian DRM schemes(or even DRM entirely).
2. Absence of micro transactions, pay 2 win or similar mechanisms.
3. Absence of overpriced DLC or similar.
4. LAN support.
5. Mod tools that are atleast as extensive as Quake 2's and released with the game or shortly thereafter.
6. A strong, robust single player that is just as much the focus of the game as is multi player.

Every now and then we see a game with some of these elements, but all of them? That is extremely rare. In fact I can't think of a single one released in the last 5 years.

In places like Duke4.net we may discuss what it is about their level design, game design, art and graphics and what not that made games like Blood such gems.

But atleast we didn't have to pay for Blood in pieces. It didn't cost us 100s of dollars to get all its content.

We could enjoy its single player without having to worry about the stability, or lack thereof, of our internet connection or whether or not we had run afoul of some complicated hardware authentication software because we dared upgrade our graphics card.

I miss the FPS games of the 90s just as much for that stuff as for particular gameplay or design elements. I actually like SOME of the changes that have happened since, for example I like story based FPS's ala the Half-Life games quite much.

What I in particular don't like gameplay wise are military shooters ala the Call of Duty games.

[MrFlibble]

Micky C, on 11 March 2016 - 11:02 PM, said:

I can hardly believe monolith shipped the game with such an obvious game save bug, a real shame.

For a while I was under the impression that the bug was introduced in one of the updates (which was not at all uncommon). However it turns out that it is already present in the earliest shareware version (I did not check the slightly earlier coverdisk demo though). Apparently it was overlooked during testing for whatever reason.

MetHy, on 12 March 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

I'm not too bothered by the difficulty glitch as I've always played on skill3 or 4. It's only really a problem with skill5 imo, as 1 and 2 are meaningless.

AFAIK only skill 3 is unaffected. Skill 4 gets a slight decrease in damage after loading, which sort of doesn't distort the difficulty much (but it's still there). Skill 5 gets a significant reduction in damage, effectively breaking difficulty.

[MetHy]

MrFlibble, on 12 March 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

For a while I was under the impression that the bug was introduced in one of the updates (which was not at all uncommon). However it turns out that it is already present in the earliest shareware version (I did not check the slightly earlier coverdisk demo though). Apparently it was overlooked during testing for whatever reason.

AFAIK only skill 3 is unaffected. Skill 4 gets a slight decrease in damage after loading, which sort of doesn't distort the difficulty much (but it's still there). Skill 5 gets a significant reduction in damage, effectively breaking difficulty.

Here are the infos I got

Quote

The zombie will hit you for (the number in brackets is after the load game):
11 hp (36 hp) - Still Kicking
15 hp (27 hp) - Pink On The Inside
18 hp (18 hp) - Lightly Broiled
22 hp (22 hp) - Well Done
26 hp (12 hp) - Extra Crispy

[MrFlibble]

Well, maybe they fixed it for skill 4 in later versions? I certainly remember that on skill 4 damage would go lower after loading the game, but not sure if it's in the latest version. It can be checked very easily though.

[Daedolon]

The problem persists all throughout.

[Hendricks266]

deuxsonic, on 12 March 2016 - 12:42 AM, said:

Can the source code just come out already? Wasn't Jason Hall talking like he had access to it at one point? It's out there somewhere. This is such a fun game and it deserves a source port to bring it out of the DOS ages.

It's well known that Matt Saettler possesses a copy of it, but do not bother him because he would need the permission of Atari/WB to not get sued to Tchernobog's lair.

[deuxsonic]

Hendricks266, on 12 March 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's well known that Matt Saettler possesses a copy of it, but do not bother him because he would need the permission of Atari/WB to not get sued to Tchernobog's lair.

I'm curious what it would take to get Atari/Warner Brothers to allow it...

[Kristian Joensen]

Companies like that generally just don't do stuff like that at all. I believe the quote in my sig is from 1999, nothing has happened since..sadly that isn't likely to change any time soon.

[deuxsonic]

I just feel like trying to reason with them, it's old DOS code from decades ago, it's unlikely they would ever use the code again... That makes me sad, Blood is such an awesome game.

[PsychoGoatee]

MetHy, on 12 March 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

I'm not too bothered by the difficulty glitch as I've always played on skill3 or 4. It's only really a problem with skill5 imo, as 1 and 2 are meaningless.

What do you mean by meaningless?

[MusicallyInspired]

They probably don't understand that it's only the code to the engine and not all the game assets as well being released for free. They probably also don't understand that their sales would dramatically increase if they released the source because more people would be able to play it.

[deuxsonic]

Can't someone lay this out in a way that they understand?

[MusicallyInspired]

It'd probably be a lost cause.

[HulkNukem]

If they could make money off releasing something, they will
If they project it wouldn't make enough money to pay off the bother to release it, they won't.

[PikaCommando]

Does anyone know what the differences between the Blood 2 difficulties are?


Also, as to what made Blood 1 such a memorable game, I think it has something to do with what I call the era of "Comic Book FPS Heroes". I don't know how to explain it, but these Dudes-with-Attitudes FPS from the 90s felt more like a comic book adventure than the novel-like FPS these days.

[MetHy]

PsychoGoatee, on 12 March 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

What do you mean by meaningless?

Who would play in skill1 or 2? Too easy.

deuxsonic, on 12 March 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

I just feel like trying to reason with them, it's old DOS code from decades ago, it's unlikely they would ever use the code again... That makes me sad, Blood is such an awesome game.

MusicallyInspired, on 12 March 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

They probably don't understand that it's only the code to the engine and not all the game assets as well being released for free. They probably also don't understand that their sales would dramatically increase if they released the source because more people would be able to play it.

deuxsonic, on 12 March 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Can't someone lay this out in a way that they understand?

MusicallyInspired, on 12 March 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

It'd probably be a lost cause.

I'm sure they understand perfectly... although it is true that, the fact that they released the game on Steam all of a sudden just after everyone asked them for the sourcecode, and the way it was released, make me think that they had totally forgotten they had the rights to that game, or else it would have been there all along. Or maybe they knew, and they thought that releasing it on Steam that way would calm down all the fuss around it...

Anyway if there is one thing I learnt about publishers, it's that they stick to their property. Their whole business system is based on acquiring those properties and selling the right to use them to people, so they just won't give stuff away for free. Even if that stuff is "half of an old game".
You know how after a certain amount of time (depending on where you live) stuff can fall within "public rights" ? Some publishers will find all the shenanigans possible not to make that happen, even if they don't do anything with it.