[MrFlibble]

UPD: Both versions of ATF seem to play fine with QDOS but when you load a saved game, all sorts of actor glitches begin to appear, many models get mixed up and you're suddenly chased by ammo crates and shell boxes while static monster models stick halfway out of the floor etc.

I believe this bug was mentioned by the original developers, but as a fairly rare one, while here it's 100pc reproducible every time a saved game is loaded.

[MrFlibble]

MrFlibble, on 13 June 2021 - 10:23 AM, said:

UPD: Both versions of ATF seem to play fine with QDOS but when you load a saved game, all sorts of actor glitches begin to appear, many models get mixed up and you're suddenly chased by ammo crates and shell boxes while static monster models stick halfway out of the floor etc.

I thought a bit about this and decided that maybe this was caused by the lack of LFN support which QDOS complains about at startup so I downloaded DOSLFN from the port page and loaded it into memory prior to running QDOS. Played the first level in the original 1997 version and there were no messed up models after loading a saved game.

I exited DOSBox and started it up again, this time to check if DOSLFN was indeed what fixed the problem. Apparently not really, because without it, everything worked fine as well. Odd, but maybe we'll have more info on that later.

I'm getting a hang of this mod/TC and I think it's fairly enjoyable. No idea why the authors felt it necessary to stuff original Quake fonts into the PAK, but I believe this can be patched out by using LibreQuake font.

NightFright, on 02 August 2020 - 06:45 AM, said:

I found just a few severe bugs which I will probably fix myself just to make it playable:
- Easy skill setting is broken on start map
- Sewer exit in E2M3 is broken (showstopper)
- You can get stuck in E4M1 and E4M2 wind tunnels (showstopper)
- Some enemies are stuck in ceilings

More than this shouldn't be needed for preserving the original experience. Unfortunately my skills with Quake editors are very limited. So far I was able to fix the start map with a simple ENT edit at least. That one was easy since the ingame error message already indicates what is wrong. Instead of using the skill id 0, they entered the text "(Select Easy)" in the definitions for some reason. This way you are stuck with normal even if you take the center bridge.

I downloaded your fixed maps via the link in the Quakeone forums thread, there are three maps: E2M3, E4M2 and E5M1. I take it you were able to fix the sewer exit and the wind tunnels?

[NightFright]

Nope, I gave up on it a long time ago, for two reasons:
1) Insufficient knowledge about Quake mapping.
2) It's not worth the effort for me since ATF is not exactly a good addon in general.

I put all my energy into the Shrak patch and the "Authentic Models" project. By now, I am taking a break from Quake-related stuff (again). Maybe someone else will find time and motivation to address the remaining issues with that addon. Good luck!

[NightFright]

Looks like one of the Quake 25-related projects has been finished on time. Sinister 625 (6 textures, 2 surprises, 5 monster types) gives you 10 new maps. After having played the first two, I can say they are apparently really good and surprisingly complex. "Rust In Circles" took me 53 minutes to complete. And boy, do you need (and want) that rocket launcher which you sadly only get towards the end of that level.

*Update*
Ah, the Q25-Limits Jam with another 15 maps has also been finished. These guys are fast!

[Fantinaikos]

[Aristotle Gumball]

Quake is so fucking cool, honestly.

[MusicallyInspired]

I've recently started playing Quake in DOSBox to try and get the classic feel before hardware acceleration and before Windows. I have to play it with cycles set to about 70,000 but it's cool. Didn't realize we were so close to the 25th anniversary. I still don't particularly care for the game, but I can't argue with the gunplay and some of the map designs. There's an element of it that's superior to Quake 2 but I still think the whole thing is a hodge-podge mess in terms of game design. And it's so dreary and bleak and monotone looking. I should play the N64 port as that seems to have a lot more colourful lighting, like Doom 64. It'd be neat if somehow those changes were ported to PC via a source port.

[Aristotle Gumball]

"And it's so dreary and bleak and monotone looking"

The guys at id were seriously depressed making that. I mean there were various technical reasons for it as well but a few people evidently were not in a great place mentally. I recall Hulshult (who did the music for Champions) talking to one of the designers of Q1 about their inspiration and the dude apparently had warned Hulshult to not get in too deep. That what they drew inspiration from was admittedly a bit fucked up. He didn't get into specifics, but I'll always remember how no one was at the studio besides Romero when he uploaded the shareware version to their server. McGee had left without saying anything (no "I quit") and everyone else was just exhausted from the experience.

Knowing little things like that enhances the experience for me. I think it's one of the few shooters besides Blood that has a genuinely artistic feel to it, enhanced by Reznor's soundtrack. As a huge fan of Hellraiser and other similar, more "out there" horror films, Quake always felt special to me.

[Fantinaikos]

Does not change the fact that you can make the people understand that you are talking of Quake simply saying "The brown looking FPS with oppressing/depressing atmosphere". To be fair it is also azure and grey. For a bunch of seconds.

It maintains this stylistic imprint also in Scourge Of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity.

[MusicallyInspired]

It is certainly a work of art. I won't deny that. Maybe even a tad avant garde.

[Lunick]

NightFright, on 22 June 2021 - 07:20 AM, said:

Looks like one of the Quake 25-related projects has been finished on time. Sinister 625 (6 textures, 2 surprises, 5 monster types) gives you 10 new maps. After having played the first two, I can say they are apparently really good and surprisingly complex. "Rust In Circles" took me 53 minutes to complete. And boy, do you need (and want) that rocket launcher which you sadly only get towards the end of that level.

*Update*
Ah, the Q25-Limits Jam with another 15 maps has also been finished. These guys are fast!

Sinister 625 is really good, here are some pictures I took of two levels




Also uploaded a video of a level in the pack that messes with the player a bit

[MC84]

Jesus Christ, on 22 June 2021 - 03:04 PM, said:

The guys at id were seriously depressed making that. I mean there were various technical reasons for it as well but a few people evidently were not in a great place mentally. I recall Hulshult (who did the music for Champions) talking to one of the designers of Q1 about their inspiration and the dude apparently had warned Hulshult to not get in too deep. That what they drew inspiration from was admittedly a bit fucked up. He didn't get into specifics, but I'll always remember how no one was at the studio besides Romero when he uploaded the shareware version to their server. McGee had left without saying anything (no "I quit") and everyone else was just exhausted from the experience.

I never knew this - I had always just assumed that the id software guys were the industry leaders about to drop a groundbreaking game and supremely confident in their product. I didn't think much of it when it first came out (being a duke fan) and also found it bland and monotonous, but at the time we only had a low-spec machine and couldn't run openGL mode - which is how it was probably intended to be played. Years later I did play through it once we had a 3Dfx card, and found it much better. But anyway the way you worded your post caught my imagination, like the game came from such a dark place that it broke the devs... or that they were dabbling in demonic shit to get inspiration... I mean christian critics in the 90s always accused doom and quake of being 'satanic' but I never found them THAT dark... if you have any interesting links or info on the quake development please share. Thanks

[Aristotle Gumball]

MusicallyInspired, on 22 June 2021 - 04:07 PM, said:

It is certainly a work of art. I won't deny that. Maybe even a tad avant garde.

Yup, I mean, that's why Reznor agreed to do the sounds & music for the game (and people forget, he did most if not all of the sound FX, not just the soundtrack!), because he found it artistic/atmospheric. He was asked to do the same for Q2, but refused because he didn't like it as much.

@MC84 - honestly you can look up interviews with any of the devs, put "Quake" after their name and you'll hear pretty similar stories. McGee leaving the company without saying anything was just hilarious to me, though. Like fuck this, I'm out. I can't be arsed right now to find specific vids, but if I randomly find one again, I'll post it here!

[NightFright]

Sinister 625 is a must-play. Until now I have finished 8/10 maps and it's not what I expected at all. I thought this would be a bunch of speedmaps, but it goes far beyond that. It's a bold experiment with vastly different settings, tricks and ideas. How they screw around with you in "The Dead Room" for example is borderline-ingenious and was good for quite a few "WTF" moments. Those constantly collapsing walls in "Daughter Drink This Water" are also something you don't see in Quake maps too often. It's quite a birthday present, actually.

[Aristotle Gumball]

NightFright, on 23 June 2021 - 03:16 AM, said:

Those constantly collapsing walls in "Daughter Drink This Water" are also something you don't see in Quake maps too often.

progs_dump 2 is a real game changer. You can get Build like effects now.

[Lunick]

There's a blog post about Daughter Drink This Water which I think is a recommended read after playing https://www.blog.rad...this-water.html

[NightFright]

Good lord.
That shot was taken AFTER I was done with that room... About 500 (!) zombies. Just like that.

And another nice WTF moment in another map:
Touching those giant nail boxes gives you a giant amount of nail ammo, btw. Absolutely insane.

[MusicallyInspired]

MC84, on 22 June 2021 - 10:06 PM, said:

..but at the time we only had a low-spec machine and couldn't run openGL mode - which is how it was probably intended to be played.

The initial release was DOS with no hardware acceleration at all. Just Software. VQuake was created to support the Sierra Screamin' 3D card after but Carmack stated how much he hated that process. WinQuake and GLQuake came after though so he didn't swear off hardware acceleration. Many people to this day say software rendering with all the texture pixelation is the only way to play Quake.

Jesus Christ, on 23 June 2021 - 12:29 AM, said:

He was asked to do the same for Q2, but refused because he didn't like it as much.

Actually I heard this was debunked and it was simply that Trent had other commitments and no time to work on Q2. Also id decided to go with metal anyway.

[Aristotle Gumball]

MusicallyInspired, on 24 June 2021 - 12:23 PM, said:

Actually I heard this was debunked

Sauce? He supposedly said "the game has no atmosphere"

[MC84]

MusicallyInspired, on 24 June 2021 - 12:23 PM, said:

The initial release was DOS with no hardware acceleration at all. Just Software. VQuake was created to support the Sierra Screamin' 3D card after but Carmack stated how much he hated that process. WinQuake and GLQuake came after though so he didn't swear off hardware acceleration. Many people to this day say software rendering with all the texture pixelation is the only way to play Quake.

Wow - clearly my memory is a bit faded on this as all the PC mags at the time were singing the praises of Quake - I just assumed that they were playing it with a beast level rig. But yeah makes sense, obviously no openGL in DOS.. Well maybe I'll have to watch some playthroughs in software mode and see how I feel about it. I can accept that it is an iconic game, but not sure if I can overcome my own personal resistance to the art style/atmosphere.

[MusicallyInspired]

Jesus Christ, on 24 June 2021 - 12:45 PM, said:

Sauce? He supposedly said "the game has no atmosphere"

I cannot remember for the life of me where I read this. It was semi-recently though. Wherever I read it it was from someone who was in the know and they said it was simply due to conflicting time schedules and prior commitments and nothing to do with Quake 2 not having an "atmosphere." I obviously have no proof though. I did a search and couldn't find anything. Maybe it was a dream. I feel like it was legit though. Maybe someone knows. If not, safely ignore me until there is evidence.

MC84, on 24 June 2021 - 01:07 PM, said:

Wow - clearly my memory is a bit faded on this as all the PC mags at the time were singing the praises of Quake - I just assumed that they were playing it with a beast level rig. But yeah makes sense, obviously no openGL in DOS.. Well maybe I'll have to watch some playthroughs in software mode and see how I feel about it. I can accept that it is an iconic game, but not sure if I can overcome my own personal resistance to the art style/atmosphere.

QuakeGL wasn't long after the initial DOS release, but it was later. From Wikipedia:

Quote

VQuake
In late 1996, id Software released VQuake, a port of the Quake engine to support hardware accelerated rendering on graphics cards using the Rendition Vérité chipset. Aside from the expected benefit of improved performance, VQuake offered numerous visual improvements over the original software-rendered Quake. It boasted full 16-bit color, bilinear filtering (reducing pixelation), improved dynamic lighting, optional anti-aliasing, and improved source code clarity, as the improved performance finally allowed the use of gotos to be abandoned in favor of proper loop constructs. As the name implied, VQuake was a proprietary port specifically for the Vérité; consumer 3D acceleration was in its infancy at the time, and there was no standard 3D API for the consumer market. After completing VQuake, John Carmack vowed to never write a proprietary port again, citing his frustration with Rendition's Speedy3D API.

So it wasn't frustration with hardware acceleration, but specifically proprietary porting, my bad. GLQuake came out in 1997.

I agree really about the atmosphere. It's not something I'm really drawn to. After a lot of time I can appreciate its gunplay now, as I said earlier, but it's still not my favourite.

[NightFright]

Doom still is id's most significant release of all they ever made. Quake was a leap regarding its technology and also set new standards in multiplayer. Regarding its general atmosphere, it was probably not the most coherent, which was also due to the significant changes in its design document, the fact that it merged different (visual) concepts from various artists and to some degree because id was on the verge of internal changes, with Carmack taking over completely and Romero leaving the stage. Many compromises were made, just look at how sloppy they handled the bosses after the first episode (basically there aren't any besides Chthon and Shub). There were ideas of having a giant zombie at the end of one episode, but whatever they came up with, it didn't convince and in the end, there wasn't enough time. This thing was pushed out of the door at some point, and it shows.

I can still appreciate Quake today for what it is, even though I think Petersen's episode 4 is badly designed, too dark with far too many shitshow situations (just think of "The Pain Maze" with its Vore and Spawn festivals). The official addons worked better for me, especially regarding how the levels were set up. Where the game really shines these days is (which also applies for Doom ofc) its community maps. Even if you don't like the original game at all, it's still worth getting for all those amazing custom addons and levels out there.

[NightFright]

Just found out about "Tremor", which is apparently going to be a 4-episode (!) pack with 32 (!!) classic levels and custom soundtrack. Think "Quake The Way id Did". The mere possibility of its future existence kinda boggles my mind.

Poster by Sock:


A pity this wasn't released as a surprise for the 25th anniversary, but the fact alone that this is apparently heading our way is good news and might turn an already good Quake year (Sinister 625 and Q25-Limits were both quite enjoyable) into a great one.

Ah yeah, before I forget: There's a Youtube teaser for "Tremor". Looks like there's no ETA for this yet, but you can be sure I'll keep you informed as soon as I find out more.

[Marphy Black]

NightFright, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

Just found out about "Tremor", which is apparently going to be a 4-episode (!) pack with 32 (!!) classic levels and custom soundtrack.

But we already have Tremor for Quake at home.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

Think "Quake The Way id Did".

Wasn't that actually supposed to be a thing at one point? Or was it just a joke?

[NightFright]

Well, you already have a nice box for the REAL Tremor release, then. It's just 968+ levels less than stated on the cover. Better as well. Oh, and for free, too.

[NightFright]

Another project that almost went underneath my radar: Alkaline. Nine huge maps in BSP2 format. Already came out on June 13.

Forum link (with trailer):
https://www.quaddict...opic.php?id=893

[ReaperAA]

Jesus Christ, on 24 June 2021 - 12:45 PM, said:

Sauce? He supposedly said "the game has no atmosphere"

MusicallyInspired, on 24 June 2021 - 05:23 PM, said:

I cannot remember for the life of me where I read this. It was semi-recently though. Wherever I read it it was from someone who was in the know and they said it was simply due to conflicting time schedules and prior commitments and nothing to do with Quake 2 not having an "atmosphere." I obviously have no proof though. I did a search and couldn't find anything. Maybe it was a dream. I feel like it was legit though. Maybe someone knows. If not, safely ignore me until there is evidence.

You are not dreaming. SonicMayhem (btw his comment is pinned in Civvie11's Quake 2 video) mentioned that Trent Reznor was too busy at that time.

[MusicallyInspired]

ReaperAA, on 26 June 2021 - 08:42 AM, said:

You are not dreaming. SonicMayhem (btw his comment is pinned in Civvie11's Quake 2 video) mentioned that Trent Reznor was too busy at that time.

Thank you! That must have been it. I knew it was from a reliable source "in the know."

[Aristotle Gumball]

I've seen Trent mention some years after he did Quake 1 that id were good at making engines and not so good at making games, so I dunno. I think it could be a case that both rumors are correct.