[Forge]

if you censor the fool, then the fool has won

[----]

I only would like a few threads about the GAMES themselves not always stupid politics.

Instead of censoring him, he could easily post all his garbage in the Outhouse or write it on a sheet and stick it to his fridge. That retarded asshole makes most of the threads unpleasent to read as you always have to search through all posts until you find something directly about the games.

[Forge]

exercise self-restraint and don't take the bait.

clowns need attention, or they wither up and die.

[Radar]

Trooper Dan, on 27 June 2019 - 10:43 PM, said:

No one has to reply to his posts. Maybe it's time to exercise self-restraint.

This is an incredibly ironic thing to say, considering how content on the opposite side of the spectrum is treated on this forum. The right-wing equivalent of Johnny would have already had everything he wrote spliced into the forum's gulag and perhaps banned.

[Forge]

Gaydar, on 28 June 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

This is an incredibly ironic thing to say

the simulacrum has to be recognized by its soulless npc pattern.

if it responds to responses and has a discussion; it's a person. Continue as normal.
if it ignores responses and continues to repeat programmed diatribe, it's a russian bot. Ignore until it starves.

Even Nazis were cool and right enough to hate communists.

[Ninety-Six]

thricecursed, on 28 June 2019 - 05:17 AM, said:

@96 - I agree with the spirit of your message, but we could also not respond to any more of johnny's posts. You're asking for Dan or one of the other mods to do something about this problem, when the solution is simple - stop responding. And if johnny then proceeds to deliver political monologues all by himself, well, then those should be removed. Maybe place them in a thread called "the mental asylum". If he does something else that goes against the forum rules - ban him. As should be the case for any member of Duke4, no?

See this is fine as long as it's not squarely on us. It's not even that I'm necessarily for censoring, so much as it is a rule that says "don't bring politics into threads outside this designated zone because it always devolves into shitfests." I have no issue with him posting about literally anything else, it's just that 95% of all his posts are throwing out some kind of -ism accusation at something or someone.

[Danukem]

Gaydar, on 28 June 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

This is an incredibly ironic thing to say, considering how content on the opposite side of the spectrum is treated on this forum. The right-wing equivalent of Johnny would have already had everything he wrote spliced into the forum's gulag and perhaps banned.

I'm trying not to post so much, but you guys are making it hard. People can and do make political comments about games without getting threads split or getting banned. The problem is when a political comment devolves into a general political discussion that no longer has anything to do with the thread topic, and/or devolves into a flame war.

johnny said he thinks Wolfenstein unintentionally glorified Nazis because they are shown as having neat uniforms and using cool hi-tech guns. Everyone else around here, including me, thinks that's a laughable point of view. However, it's still on the topic of the game, and it's not violating any forum guidelines to say it. If a few people respond and make fun of the statement without getting too personal and causing a flamewar, that's fine. If it turns into an off-topic flamewar, that's not fine and it gets split.

If one of us complains about a game from a non-left perspective (for example, if we complain that a game has LGBT characters shoehorned into it, or has attacks on Trump shoehorned into it), then that's fine too. It's still about the game and it's within forum guidelines. But, again, if the ensuing discussion becomes off-topic or becomes a flamewar, then that's grounds for splitting the thread. As far as I'm concerned, this is all to be handled in an even-handed way.

Now if you guys want to talk about Wolfenstein, then please go ahead and talk about Wolfenstein, no one is stopping you.

[Jim]

Since when did BJ became Jewish?

[MusicallyInspired]

Jim, on 28 June 2019 - 10:11 PM, said:

Since when did BJ became Jewish?

I just kinda assumed it was because of the name Blazkowicz.

[Jim]

I always thought BJ was an Aryan, and it was suppose to be ironic that the Nazi's greatest enemy was one of their own.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Jim, on 28 June 2019 - 10:11 PM, said:

Since when did BJ became Jewish?

https://www.polygon....azkowicz-jewish

[----]

Jim, on 28 June 2019 - 10:11 PM, said:

Since when did BJ became Jewish?

In the Machine Games series his mother is jewish.

EDIT: Didn't see thricecursed's post as I didn't scroll down enough before I replied. He gets an upvote for that mishap.

[johnnythewolf]

Trooper Dan, on 28 June 2019 - 09:13 PM, said:

johnny said he thinks Wolfenstein unintentionally glorified Nazis because they are shown as having neat uniforms and using cool hi-tech guns.

That is a gross and frankly dishonest oversimplification of what I said.

My point is that MachineGames' Wolfenstein titles do not do a good job at showing the Nazis to be wrong - most of the time, it ends up proving them right unintentionally by playing straight into the mythology the Nazis have made for themselves. For example, The New Order sort of vindicates their antisemitism by having actual Jews being secretive and creating weapons of mass destruction. The Nazi-built cities are all shown to be clean, impressive and prosperous, and the only flaw with them is the direct result of Seth Roth's sabotage. Seth Roth himself is not an antisemitic caricature, but still plays the part of the scheming duplicitous Jew that the Nazis were very much right to be wary of according to The New Order. With his "perfect" Aryan-esque body, BJ Blazkowicz validates the Nazis' eugenics theories and justifies their efforts to breed soldiers like him. Deathshead is psychotic and his unethical methods are horrifying, yet all his creations and inventions turn out to be highly successful; the London Monitor and the Machine Man do not go respectively ED-209 and RoboCop 2 on their masters the moment they are activated. No, everything would have been fine had it not been for those meddling Jews and their "degenerate" allies...

What I am saying is that it is simply not enough to show the Nazis trying to kill the protagonist and his friends with bullets; if your anti-Nazi game ends up portraying the future the Nazis wanted as actually a good thing, then you are basically doing their propaganda work for them. The Nazis and their spiritual successors never cared about marginalised people to begin with, so you are highly unlikely to move them with things like the sight of Nazis killing the Oliwas' patients, Klaus Kreutz's sad backstory and Max Hass' puppy dog eyes, Camp Belica inmates agonising or even BJ's mother dying offscreen in a concentration camp; at very best, they will dismiss those things as "sad but necessary".

A slightly better way to depict the Nazis can ironically be found in The Old Blood in the character of Helga von Schabbs; most of the time, she is portrayed as having no idea what she was doing and her quest is clearly doomed from the start; even had BJ not interfered, she, her men and the entire population of Wulfburg would have probably all succumbed to the horrors that were unwittingly unleashed anyway. It is only a shame that it has to involve a vague supernatural threat and not their own actual ideology backfiring.

[MusicallyInspired]

johnnythewolf, on 29 June 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

My point is that MachineGames' Wolfenstein titles do not do a good job at showing the Nazis to be wrong

You are delusional.

johnnythewolf, on 29 June 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

But to be fair to MachineGames, The Old Blood is a bit better in that regard, as the main antagonist Helga von Schabbs is portrayed as having no idea what she was doing and her quest was doomed from the start;

So you think none of the Nazis ever had any form of intelligence and were all just evil morons who were "doomed from the start?" The most credible evil threats in storytelling (and history, for that matter) are villains who know exactly what they're doing. It raises the stakes and makes the payoff for defeating them that much more potent and effective (not to mention important). If this is about portraying Nazis specifically (and no other enemy threats in any other stories/games/movies/history) as the idiotic fools who can't tie their own shoelaces then there's a lot you need to learn about history. The Germans were always the ones pushing for incredible technological advances. Are you really saying that simply because the enemies are Nazis that we can't risk portraying them in any place of competence just for politics' sake? Why? Because you think people might actually want to be Nazis because of it?

Again, you're acting like the overprotective parent. The Devouring Mother isn't any better than the Tyrannical Father. Stop with the coddling as if everyone around you is dumber than you and needs to be protected.

[Ninety-Six]

i have no idea how someone like this even knows how to breathe


go off and play the SNES port of Wolf 3D and leave the real games alone

[Danukem]

Ninety-Six, on 29 June 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

i have no idea how someone like this even knows how to breathe

I'm going to assume that he's smarter than that, which means the only logical conclusion is that he is now trolling.

Notice that he claimed I was "grossly oversimplifying" his earlier post, and then in his summary of what I left out he added in new material about secretive Jewish scientists that wasn't in the earlier post. I know this because I very carefully read his earlier post word-for-word. That's gaslighting, a form of trolling. Trolling is prohibited by the forum guidelines, so as far as I'm concerned he is now on very thin ice here.

[NightFright]

There's a reason they banned him over at the ZDoom forums, I guess.

Anyway, I am just relieved we Germans can finally get our hands on uncut Wolfenstein versions. I already said it before, but I actually don't care about the swastikas. It actually kinda fits if the symbols got replaced, with the whole thing being an alternate reality/timeline and all that. It's the English audio I am after. Not that the German audio was bad, but I am used to playing all my games in English, also since often there are details you can't find in other languages.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 29 June 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

There's a reason they banned him over at the ZDoom forums, I guess.

Oh my god I know who he is.

This is off-topic so I'll put it in spoiler:

Spoiler

I remember him now. He's the one who got on my case because I used the word "schizophrenic" to describe the difficulty curve of Thy Flesh Consumed. And I remember watching him throw a titfit over the Operation Body Count remake, which is what I think got him banned.


This all makes so much more sense now.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Ninety-Six, on 29 June 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

Oh my god I know who he is.

This is off-topic so I'll put it in spoiler:

Spoiler

I remember him now. He's the one who got on my case because I used the word "schizophrenic" to describe the difficulty curve of Thy Flesh Consumed. And I remember watching him throw a titfit over the Operation Body Count remake, which is what I think got him banned.


This all makes so much more sense now.

https://www.doomworl...ion-10-release/

[Ninety-Six]

Yep that's him alright. Man I wish I had found this out earlier; I would have not wasted so much effort on a lost cause. I genuinely hoped that he might see reason, but now knowing he's the same guy from the ZDoom forum shitstorm...


Yeah no screw it. I take back what I said. I think Dan's right. I'm going to ignore him. When I see an avatarless post by a user named johnnythewolf with a big red rep meter, I will just not even read the first word of his post. It will never be anything valuable or interesting, just baseless and downright insane -ism accusations.


I suggest everyone else do the same. Let him post in a vacuum.




So back on topic, then. Regarding the censored symbols, I will admit I am mildly jealous that it's the only time the fancy W shows up in-game. I always loved the stylized W since RtCW and it's always kind of a shame that it's almost never seen past the title screen.

[Danukem]

I plan to buy Wolfenstein youngblood special edition and play it with my friend Batsuey (voice of Bombshell in AA). If you buy the special edition a friend can play with you for free on another console (if I'm reading that right). I'll report back on how that goes.

[johnnythewolf]

Trooper Dan, on 29 June 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

Notice that he claimed I was "grossly oversimplifying" his earlier post, and then in his summary of what I left out he added in new material about secretive Jewish scientists that wasn't in the earlier post.

Yeah, how dare I provide additional examples to bolster my argument?

And you know what is actually gaslighting? Repeatedly telling me that I am "crazy" or "retarded" and that I cannot possibly believe the things that I say all because you cannot bring yourself to agree with them...

For the record, I got banned from the ZDoom forums because I called a modder's decision to make a total conversion about killing stereotypical Muslim terrorists "kind of tasteless" and that hurt his feelings so much that he went crying to the moderators, who then proceeded to attempt to gaslight me by arguing that - surprise, surprise - I could not possibly believe the things that I say. Well, that and they think racist content is actually okay because Wolfenstein 3D was "racist" against Nazis.

[Danukem]

I don't know who you are trying to kid, since you now have a long and public record of disruptive behavior and everyone here sees it. The doomworld forum link above shows you saying abusive things to the modder, which is consistent with the trolling you do here. You also just reposted your most recent comment 3 times, despite me deleting it in an attempt to keep the thread on topic.

[PokeThePower]

(Edit: Moved elsewhere)

And then suddenly, for no reason at all, 13% of me was responsible for 50% of the purchases of the new Wolfenstein game.

[Tea Monster]

johnnythewolf, on 26 June 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

*snip* I get that they do not want to glorify Nazi symbolism and philosophy (which MachineGames unintentionally kind of does by portraying the Nazis as just badasses with cool technology), but come on... even without the mustache, you could still tell that was Adolf Hitler in The New Colossus.

My boldening.

Spoiler

[DisgustedGrunt]

NightFright, on 29 June 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

There's a reason they banned him over at the ZDoom forums, I guess.

why that doesn't suprise me? oh yeah, it's the guy that was calling people mosque shooters.

[Forge]

johnnythewolf, on 29 June 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

I could not possibly believe the things that I say.

or it could be that your posts are regurgitated garbage that are near copy-paste talking points and buzz-words from tumblr blogs & reddit posts

Make America Nazi-Free Again.
#NoMoreNazis

[MusicallyInspired]

Trooper Dan, on 29 June 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

I plan to buy Wolfenstein youngblood special edition and play it with my friend Batsuey (voice of Bombshell in AA). If you buy the special edition a friend can play with you for free on another console (if I'm reading that right). I'll report back on how that goes.

That sounds pretty neat. Do let us know.

[Danukem]

johnnythewolf can't respond to us now and won't be around any more, unless there is a surprising turnabout in the situation. In my opinion, this isn't about whether we like him, it's about having a forum that's not dysfunctional.

[MusicallyInspired]

He was a crusader in a strange land who died for what he believed in. Definitely a troll who knew exactly what to say to push the buttons he fully meant to push. It just wasn't for laughs. He probably thought he could actually make a difference. But he didn't know how to respond to people who challenged him right where he was weakest and so didn't respond at all except to call for completely untrue claims that he was being unfairly insulted and then unfairly insulted you right back. He was never hear for a conversation. He was a self-commissioned missionary bringing the good news to the natives, but out of pity rather than respect. It's a shame. I was honestly taken aback the first time he snapped at me and claimed I insulted him. I was like "What? What did I do?" But I know what I did. I was cutting past all the fluff and trying to expose the rotting gooey innards he was protecting so much with his shiny armor of self-righteousness. That's why he never once even acknowledged Wanda's existence. And that's my only regret. I wish I could have seen a bit of a back and forth there as those are always entertaining lol. May he one day find peace in that troubled mind of his and find someone who can get through to him.

Well, that turned into some kind of weird eulogy.