[Zaxx]

axl, on 03 March 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

The quick mighty foot is far from pointless and useless in Duke Nukem 3D. It can really make a difference on the higher difficulties: it's a lot faster to use the quick-kick feature at frozen enemies than to wait for the "automatic" kick, it can help preserve ammo while not losing time switching weapons and can be really helpful in close quarters so that you can shoot and kick at the same time.

So it's useful because the automatic kick is not useful enough... that only proves that the auto kick was not a super polished mechanic in Duke 3D, not that the quick kick was useful. You have a point when it comes to ammo conservation but then again Ion Maiden's stun baton is a lot stronger than Duke's kick so it perfectly fulfills the ammo conservation aspect. The thing is I just don't see the point in including a quick kick when you have an awesome melee weapon that stunlocks enemies and even has a simple 3 hit combo, it's just more fun than a kick would be. And really I don't think anything that I'm saying is new, I'm sure that 3DR chose not to have a "mighty foot" in Shadow Warrior because the katana was just more awesome too (I know, we had karate punches... did anyone ever use those?).

Quote

picking up objects wouldn't fit the old-school approach of Ion Maiden in my opinion.

Well Duke 3D did not have ladders either and even in the old school games where ladders were a thing it was never this easy and smooth to climb them... so that means that the devs should remove the ladders or make climbing them suck like in the 90's? Absolutely not. Duke 3D did not have physics so Ion Maiden should get rid of that too? I think you see where I'm going with this...

The thing is that I don't really care if it's super old school or not because the fact is that it would serve Ion Maiden's gameplay a great deal.

[Doom64hunter]

Is the portable medkit the only inventory item in the game? I didn't see any "Inventory left/right" buttons in the controls, which is surprising considering every Build game had those.

Also, I want to reinforce that the eduke32 control setup needs to be changed so that you can only map a key to a single action. The big issue right now is that the previous keybinds aren't removed whenever you set a key to a new action.

For example, when I set e to crouch, the use function isn't unbound from e. This behavior has been a pet peeve of mine for ages, but I decided not to complain about it since eduke was only volunteer work and the issue was admittedly minor.

Now with Ion Maiden as a commercial product however, I feel like it's finally time to bring this up.

[axl]

Zaxx, on 03 March 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

Well Duke 3D did not have ladders either and even in the old school games where ladders were a thing it was never this easy and smooth to climb them... so that means that the devs should remove the ladders or make climbing them suck like in the 90's? Absolutely not. Duke 3D did not have physics so Ion Maiden should get rid of that too? I think you see where I'm going with this...

Shadow Warrior did have ladders. But I can understand your view on this. I think it comes down to personal preference.

Personally I like Ion Maiden the way it is right now. But I very much welcome the alt-fires and I would love it if you could dual-wield the SMG (don't know if this is planned or not).

Anyway, just finished the demo and it was a blast. Really looking forward to see more of this.

[NightFright]

I am using the keypad a lot and was a bit frustrated that keypad5 was not possible to be assigned. It's the central key of the keypad layout and I use it as a kind of panic button, usually for important things like medkit usage or reload. In EDuke32, it's my inventory use key, scrolling done with keypad left/right.

Long text, short question: Any chance to see keypad5 added to the list of supported keys?

[Forge]

Zaxx, on 03 March 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

The thing is I just don't see the point in including a quick kick

breaking trashcans to get randomly spawned items.
if there's multiplayer, i'd rather quick-attack through a grate than wait for it to open.
if i'm holding bowling bombs and i walk around a corner into an enemy, i'd rather quick-attack them than either blow us both up or go through the slow process of switching weapons.
etc.
etc.

some people find the feature useful.
some people find the feature useless.
simply opinions.
yours are just as valid.
even if the feature is available, that doesn't mean you have to use it.

[MrFlibble]

Zaxx, on 03 March 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

I'm sure that 3DR chose not to have a "mighty foot" in Shadow Warrior because the katana was just more awesome too (I know, we had karate punches... did anyone ever use those?).

Fists are a great way to deal with Coolie Ghosts when they spawn, katana swing is way too slow for that, and fists are very fast. You can knock out ninjas too if you sneak or run up on them before they can use their ranged weapons. Not to mention the powered-up punch in shadow warrior mode.

[Forge]

Bruno Mattei, on 03 March 2018 - 05:30 AM, said:

By the same token nothing could change when the full game is out.

A large portiont of the reasons you listed for not liking the demo are listed on the release page as being present in the full release.

more enemies
more weapons
alt-fire

You admitted to rushing through it as fast as you could. Then complained about the levels being confusing and cryptic.
In the same token you admit to only finding about half the secrets, but complained that they didn't hold anything worthwhile.
You only found half of them, so you don't know what's in the other half.
If you properly read the end-screen you'd know that there are going to be more secrets and items in the final version.

Also under the same token, it doesn't sound like you took the time to figure out how to "finesse" the bowling-bombs.


You can dislike the demo. It doesn't suit your taste.
But-
Your complaints sound disingenuous.
By your own comments, it's obvious you bought it and blazed through it in the quickest amount of time possible, just to qualify for a refund.
There is nothing wrong with that. If there were, the distributor wouldn't allow it.

Taking everything about your comments into account diminishes the chance that anyone will take your negative aspects of the game serious.
They don't appear informed or honest. Merely as an 'excuse' for you to check the game out for free.

Pity.
Negative aspects and comments are good. Echo chambers don't foster very much progress.

[Doom64hunter]

Holy shit, I just realized you can hurt yourself by swinging the baton at a puddle of water while standing inside of it.

[Zaxx]

MrFlibble, on 03 March 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

Fists are a great way to deal with Coolie Ghosts when they spawn, katana swing is way too slow for that,

Actually the katana is super good against them because you can spam it. The katana was always my go to weapons against the ghosts.

Anyway I think we're getting a bit sidetracked here. I know I'm partially the cause of that because I said that the quick kick was useless in Duke 3D (which I still firmly believe btw.) but really since my suggestion is about Ion Maiden we should really think about why a quick kick would be useful in Ion Maiden.

In my opinion it wouldn't be useful because:

- The stun baton is lot more satisfying to use then a quick kick would be.
- The stun baton could be adjusted in order to break stuff easier (see one of my previous comments here on how to accomplish that)
- The stun baton is perfect for ammo conservation, it really is a powerful weapon in some situations.

So basically I think that a quick kick would only clutter up an otherwise clean game design. It's a redundant feature because the stun baton is the game's melee weapon, not Duke's boot and we don't need redundant features. This is not Brutal Doom where some features are only there for shits and giggles but are otherwise useless (and before you jump on me for this I love Brutal Doom but it's a mod, not a professionally developed video game like Ion Maiden).

[MetHy]

Reminder that one of the power-ups in Shadow Warrior increases the strength of your fists. They're not useless.

[Bruno Mattei]

Forge, on 03 March 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

A large portiont of the reasons you listed for not liking the demo are listed on the release page as being present in the full release.

more enemies
more weapons
alt-fire

You admitted to rushing through it as fast as you could. Then complained about the levels being confusing and cryptic.
In the same token you admit to only finding about half the secrets, but complained that they didn't hold anything worthwhile.
You only found half of them, so you don't know what's in the other half.
If you properly read the end-screen you'd know that there are going to be more secrets and items in the final version.


Pity.
Negative aspects and comments are good. Echo chambers don't foster very much progress.

Where on earth did I say that I rushed through it? I completed the 3 levels in 65 minutes. I took my time to find as many secrets as possible even though many of the secrets were pointless (as I already stated) and killed pretty much all of the enemies in each level. Plus I stated that I found roughly half of the secrets per level so if you think that's rushing then we have very different opinions of what rushing is.

The whole preview campaign just didn't impress me that much. Like, why the crap would you not show off more of the arsenal? This has been worked on for about 2 years, right? So why only show 4 weapons including the melee weapon? Why in the crap would you give me the chaingun (finally a new weapon even though it's a very atypical weapon for an FPS) and then just end it? Why not after getting the chaingun a bunch of enemies swarm in and you could have a little bit of fun with it?

If anything was rushed it was this preview. Compare Ion Maiden to Dusk which was made by 3 people and the first campaign (consisting of around 8 or so levels) was available from the get-go along with a fully fleshed out arsenal.

Forge, on 03 March 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Pity.
Negative aspects and comments are good. Echo chambers don't foster very much progress.

Do you ever look in a mirror? I didn't say the game was terrible but it was underwhelming. But apparently I'm not allowed to criticize without fuccbois (including very thin-skinned developers who love to criticize the work of others) appearing and downvoting me for having a different opinion.

[NightFright]

Well, slightly more than one hour for three levels is really a bit fast. It took me that long to complete the first map only, with just 5 secrets found. I admit I could have completed it earlier, but took a lot longer due to secret hunting.

For a demo, I think the amount of gameplay you get to check out is quite decent. In general, I am grateful there is a Build game again of which I cannot say that I know the maps by heart. My urge for exploration is addressed, and I like how you are reminded about missing secrets before you leave the map. It's also a good way to tell you that you found the exit.

[Sanek]

Doom64hunter, on 03 March 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

Is the portable medkit the only inventory item in the game? I didn't see any "Inventory left/right" buttons in the controls, which is surprising considering every Build game had those.

I beelive that Extreme Paintbrawl, Zombie Crisis, and a number of other Build games didn't have any inventory at all. It's not obligatory for Build games to have inventory.

The Build engine game does not even had to be a shooter.

[Forge]

Bruno Mattei, on 03 March 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Where on earth did I say that I rushed through it?

Your opening line is,

Quote

"I bought it and then refunded after I completed the incredibly short preview."

Consider the impression and negative reaction that leaves. Everything after in your statement is already set up for failure.
You should have saved that statement for the end, or just left out the part about how fast you finished such a "short" demo.
It is, after all, just a demo.
And if it were so cryptic and confusing as you say, it should have taken longer to complete than what you claim.

Bruno Mattei, on 03 March 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Like, why the crap would you not show off more.....

You don't know how demos and teasers work, do you?

Bruno Mattei, on 03 March 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Do you ever look in a mirror? I didn't say the game was terrible but it was underwhelming. But apparently I'm not allowed to criticize without fuccbois (including very thin-skinned developers who love to criticize the work of others) appearing and downvoting me for having a different opinion.

Why would I?
I simply stated what impression your comment leaves.
Upvotes and downvotes are merely a visual gauge on if your comments are agreeable or not. Apparently several people disagree with you. Most likely for your statements about what was missing from the demo (which will be in the full version, but you want them now). Also for appearing to buy it & refund it, just to play it fast & free.

I'm not sure what you expected when you posted what you did. If it were more constructive, it could have been better received. We'll never know now, will we?

[Doom64hunter]

Managed to come across some pretty serious crashes. One is preventing me from finding all the secrets since it's essentially counting down like a timer -- if I stay in the map too long the game eventually crashes.
I have attached two zip files with saves that showcase the crashes.

The first crash occurs when you use one of the switches next to the soda machines. The associated save file starts you right in front of the faulty light switch.

 switch_crash.zip (4.4MB)
Number of downloads: 0

Crashlog:

Line 821, switch: Gv_GetSpecialVarX(): invalid sprite ID -1
Line 6028, switch: Gv_GetSpecialVarX(): invalid sprite ID -1

89139: -32: 2048
89140: -31:     8 else
89141: -30:   254 else
89142: -29: 161526384
89143: -28: 31337 {
89144: -27:   256 setvarvar
89145: -26: 311
89146: -25:     4 guniqhudid
89147: -24: 253
89148: -23: 3
89149: -22:   257 xorvarvar
89150: -21: 311
89151: -20: 2048
89152: -19:     8 else
89153: -18:   258 setactor
89154: -17: 246
89155: -16: 3
89156: -15: 311
89157: -14: 31337 }
89158: -13:   260 setactor
89159: -12: 246
89160: -11: 6
89161: -10:     4 guniqhudid
89162:  -9: 253
89163:  -8: 6
89164:  -7: 31337 }
89165:  -6:   262 else
89166:  -5: 161526656
89167:  -4: 31337 {
89168:  -3:   264 espawnvar
89169:  -2: 2048
89170:  -1: 6711
89171:   0:   265 setactorvar
89172:   1: 246
89173:   2: 345
89174:   3: 447
89175:   4:   266 setactorvar
89176:   5: 246
89177:   6: 346
89178:   7:     4 guniqhudid
89179:   8: 253
89180:   9: 6
89181:  10:   267 setactor
89182:  11: 246
89183:  12: 9
89184:  13: 2048
89185:  14: 64
89186:  15:   268 setactor
89187:  16: 246
89188:  17: 10
89189:  18: 2048
89190:  19: 64
89191:  20: 31337 }
89192:  21:   270 subvarvar
89193:  22: 309
89194:  23: 2048
89195:  24: 1
89196:  25: 31337 }
89197:  26: 31337 }
89198:  27: 31337 }
89199:  28:   274 setvarvar
89200:  29: 318
89201:  30: 2048
89202:  31: 0

current actor: 4295 (5890)
g_errorLineNum: 6050, g_tw: 124

The second crash is the more serious one. For some reason, after staying in the second map for a while, I eventually start getting random crashes, as if they were on a timer.
To reproduce it, just run around in the map for a while and try shooting. You'll be booted to the desktop eventually.

 eventual_crash.zip (4.55MB)
Number of downloads: 0

Crashlog:

Line 821, switch: Gv_GetSpecialVarX(): invalid sprite ID -1
Line 6028, switch: Gv_GetSpecialVarX(): invalid sprite ID -1
g_errorLineNum: 6050, g_tw: 124

It appears that the source of the crashes seems to be the same in both cases. However, I don't quite understand why in one case it activates automatically, and in one case it doesn't.

Finally, I noticed that turning fullscreen mode off in the startup dialogue doesn't actually do anything. It still starts in fullscreen either way.
Zaxx is correct.

[Zaxx]

Doom64hunter, on 03 March 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

Finally, I noticed that turning fullscreen mode off in the startup dialogue doesn't actually do anything. It still starts in fullscreen either way.

I think that's borderless windowed mode.

[Bruno Mattei]

Whatever you say. Whatever you want to believe. I don't really care and don't feel like defending my point of view against of bunch of obese neckbeard sycophants.

[necroslut]

HulkNukem, on 03 March 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

To be fair, neither are physic objects.

The unreleased Fate had them, as did Shadow Warrior to a degree, and of course Half-Life.

Zaxx, on 03 March 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

So it's useful because the automatic kick is not useful enough... that only proves that the auto kick was not a super polished mechanic in Duke 3D, not that the quick kick was useful. You have a point when it comes to ammo conservation but then again Ion Maiden's stun baton is a lot stronger than Duke's kick so it perfectly fulfills the ammo conservation aspect. The thing is I just don't see the point in including a quick kick when you have an awesome melee weapon that stunlocks enemies and even has a simple 3 hit combo, it's just more fun than a kick would be. And really I don't think anything that I'm saying is new, I'm sure that 3DR chose not to have a "mighty foot" in Shadow Warrior because the katana was just more awesome too (I know, we had karate punches... did anyone ever use those?).


Well Duke 3D did not have ladders either and even in the old school games where ladders were a thing it was never this easy and smooth to climb them... so that means that the devs should remove the ladders or make climbing them suck like in the 90's? Absolutely not. Duke 3D did not have physics so Ion Maiden should get rid of that too? I think you see where I'm going with this...

The thing is that I don't really care if it's super old school or not because the fact is that it would serve Ion Maiden's gameplay a great deal.

The fists were great - they do quite a bit of damage and are super quick. And it's great fun to send ninjas flying through the air - the first thing I do when starting up SW is always to switch to the fists and punch those two jumping ninjas right out through the window they came in from. The only reason they're not classic is because the katana is the single best FPS melee weapon ever.

Duke's kick is also very useful when reloading, maybe getting that final hit in before the enemy can blast you. Or when you have an explosive weapon equipped and someone gets the drop on you.

[CruX]

Bruno Mattei, on 03 March 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

Whatever you say. Whatever you want to believe. I don't really care and don't feel like defending my point of view against of bunch of obese neckbeard sycophants.

i wouldn't want to defend my point of view either if i were as terrible at it as you are ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MrFlibble]

necroslut, on 03 March 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

Duke's kick is also very useful when reloading, maybe getting that final hit in before the enemy can blast you. Or when you have an explosive weapon equipped and someone gets the drop on you.

At some point I found the pistol/quick kick combo (that is, you use both simultaneously at point blank range) to work pretty well against troopers and pig cops during my attempts to speed run E1L1. (I wasn't aiming for the shortest time possible, just for a very quick run though without secrets or exploits, intended for a short video)[/offtopic]

[High Treason]

Realized I never came back to say how things went. Generally well, the game is not perfect, but then what is? It was fun enough, think what it cost should be worth it for the full version.

My experiences with it on video -


There are, however, certain missing features I will be putting in place myself if they're not implemented. Oh, yes, you can be sure I've stripped this game down to see how it works already and it should be very easy to start modding it after years of EDuke32 stuff, so fear not. Wanna drink that bottle of bleach? I'll get that going. Want to use the lavatory? I'll get that done. Want to smash the ATM sprites just like Duke 3D? I can get that to work.Enemies and items need to be more visible? Should be easy to fix.

Basically, a few praises and criticisms;
Positives
> Gameplay is mostly fun because it plays like an FPS instead of a movie, nothing really feels restrictive in terms of where I can go and where I can point my gun.
> Level design is generally good, they were built well and you can tell that effort was put into it.
> The effects are nicely done, such as the explosions and shotsparks, blowing up a wall generally felt satisfying to do and I could also play with light switches, something games have lacked for years.
> The levels do encourage exploration, it doesn't usually force you to go out of your way, but it leaves little hints that there's something around if you can be bothered to look for them.
> Real attention to detail, stuff like boss and air meters or parts of levels that move and do stuff, liked how I accidentally knocked a vase off of a desk at one point, stuff like that.


Negatives
> The music is unfitting for a Build game and the first track is repetitive, if you can call that music, two sixteenth notes per beat on a loop with no real progression does not equal music. Hardly any stereo, but made with an FT2 clone, what do you expect.
> Enemies and items aren't easy to see. My fix would be to get the shade they would be otherwise and just bump it up slightly, or have the items fully bright, it's a game after all and Duke/SW's docs even recommended this. Ended up having to search for health and ammo a few times, to a point which is distracting, not sure if supplies are really sparse or I'm just not seeing them and, only ended up there in the first place because I couldn't see what was shooting me.
> Can't smash some things that probably should be smash-able, I wanted to bust that ATM sprite Duke Nukem 3D style. Also, jumping feels really stiff but you probably can't change that now without significantly changing the levels.
> Praise as much as complaint, some areas of the levels were actually 'over designed' to a point where it looks far too busy, someone really liked that double slope effect in the first map and just went nuts with it.
> No quick kick, really could do with a 'Bombshell Boot' or 'Shelly Stomp' or something being put in.

Anyways, looking forward to the full version.

[Mike Norvak]

High Treason, on 03 March 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

> Enemies and items aren't easy to see. My fix would be to get the shade they would be otherwise and just bump it up slightly, or have the items fully bright, it's a game after all and Duke/SW's docs even recommended this. Ended up having to search for health and ammo a few times, to a point which is distracting, not sure if supplies are really sparse or I'm just not seeing them and, only ended up there in the first place because I couldn't see what was shooting me.
> Can't smash some things that probably should be smash-able, I wanted to bust that ATM sprite Duke Nukem 3D style.

This and the Fps drops, especially in the boss battle would be my only complains, designing such large levels without taking fps in consideration is a big mistake imho. Having more interactivity and working mirrors would be the cherry on top.

[Danukem]

High Treason, on 03 March 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

Oh, yes, you can be sure I've stripped this game down to see how it works already and it should be very easy to start modding it after years of EDuke32 stuff, so fear not. Wanna drink that bottle of bleach? I'll get that going. Want to use the lavatory? I'll get that done. Want to smash the ATM sprites just like Duke 3D? I can get that to work.Enemies and items need to be more visible? Should be easy to fix.

You've "stripped this game down to see how it works already". Yeah, it works like a Build game, and the devs provided well organized script files with everything nicely labeled and easy to modify. Good to know we'll be able to drink bleach in the future though, I'm sure that will require some elite hax to pull off

[NightFright]

USS Framerate should always be your favorite spaceship (E2L1 pun here). Anyway, I only had slowdown issues when the game was (auto)saving. Maybe this can still be optimized.

[High Treason]

Trooper Dan, on 03 March 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

You've "stripped this game down to see how it works already". Yeah, it works like a Build game, and the devs provided well organized script files with everything nicely labeled and easy to modify. Good to know we'll be able to drink bleach in the future though, I'm sure that will require some elite hax to pull off

Yeah, that was my point, so what of it? What are you trying to prove here exactly?
No need to be suck a fucking dick about it.
Asswipe.

[Danukem]

High Treason, on 03 March 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

Yeah, that was my point, so what of it? What are you trying to prove here exactly?
No need to be suck a fucking dick about it.
Asswipe.

I'm a shady bitch.

I was just making the point that the developers provided those scripts and made them easy to modify. You made it sound like you had hacked the game apart and carefully analyzed it, which I thought was funny.

I did notice something, which maybe you could comment on, if you're not too pissed off. Apparently if you modify a script file then put it back into the maiden.grp, the game won't start. I guess it fails the checksum or something, but the log doesn't make that clear.

[Forge]

High Treason, on 03 March 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

Wanna drink that bottle of bleach? I'll get that going.

how about the tide-pod challenge instead?

[Zaxx]

Mike Norvak, on 03 March 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

designing such large levels without taking fps in consideration is a big mistake imho.

Well, let's hope that the guys are not the developers of Black Mesa but actually know what they are doing. The way I see it there is nothing in the game that a more advanced version of EDuke32 couldn't handle. The engine just needs a bit of spit and polish, that's all.

[TerminX]

Bruno Mattei, on 03 March 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

Whatever you say. Whatever you want to believe. I don't really care and don't feel like defending my point of view against of bunch of obese neckbeard sycophants.

Do you even meet the COPPA requirements to post here?

[Forge]

TerminX, on 03 March 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

Do you even meet the COPPA requirements to post here?

So you're saying he refunded the game because it lacked 'boob physics"?
It all makes sense now.