[leilei]

Memes are only funny if they're subtle and not in your face and not forced out and used very sparingly. There's also the danger of tainting a retro aesthetic with them, especially since older games had a few pop culture references at best and rarely any internet virals. (Doom had a few usenet references, but only limited to cheats for example and they're more injokes than anything else)

good meme use: this subtle loss building right there. you won't notice it if you're rushing through, like the dicks in a gta3+ game. (would probably work better if more lights were turned on around it)
bad meme use: WAZZUP!!! ALL YOUR BASE!!! IT'S 1996 AND IT IS TIME FOR CLACK'S!! YOU FOUND THE SECRET ROOM WITH THIS FUNNY PICTURE BET YOU CANT NOT LAUGH AFTER THIS <stormtrooper thrust gif here> YOU NEVER ASKED FOR THIS!! p.s. Who best pony (REQUIRED ANSWERING TO PROCEED)

tl;dr: don't family guy

[Mblackwell]

Wow

[Forge]

for Fred:
Shelly's new power armor upgrade

[Zaxx]

 leilei, on 27 January 2019 - 07:37 PM, said:

WAZZUP!!! ALL YOUR BASE!!! IT'S 1996 AND IT IS TIME FOR CLACK'S!! YOU FOUND THE SECRET ROOM WITH THIS FUNNY PICTURE BET YOU CANT NOT LAUGH AFTER THIS <stormtrooper thrust gif here> YOU NEVER ASKED FOR THIS!! p.s. Who best pony (REQUIRED ANSWERING TO PROCEED)

Hey, knowing 3D Realms a trailer with the "frag like it's 1996" tagline is not that far off.

[Forge]

There should be an easter-egg of a fallout 76 canvas bag.

Put it in a forbidden dev room that bans the player as soon as they pick it up.

It should be sitting on a dining table next to a usb drive.

[oasiz]

I'll cram in so many more twin peaks references that it turns in to a meme, then I have to retroactively remove them in a patch because no memes allowed.

Ps. Shibas are cute as hell

[Jblade]

One quick gameplay question since I can't really tell, do all the armour types have the same protection value or do the better ones absorb more damage like Doom/Quake?

[TerminX]

 High Treason, on 27 January 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

As for the image in the game, it looks oddly out of place. Also the room is strangely reminiscent of that 'Amsterdam Lolita' someone dug up in some guy's old maps a few months ago.

OK, I'm officially creeped out by the fact that someone is still thinking about this months later and is even familiar with it enough for other maps in other games to remind them of it.

[MetHy]

If there is a ressemblance it's definitely not intentional, as I have no idea what map people are referring to. All I know is that it's a map that was posted here and someone got banned or something.

 Jblade, on 28 January 2019 - 12:34 AM, said:

One quick gameplay question since I can't really tell, do all the armour types have the same protection value or do the better ones absorb more damage like Doom/Quake?

They provide better protection (MBlackwell should know the exact numbers if you're interested) and allow to pick up more shards (blue armor:50-> max armor 99; brown armor: 100-> max armor 199; red armor 200-> max armor 249)

[Micky C]

I'm finally getting around to giving some feedback on update 4.1. I'm repeatedly amazed by all the care and attention that's put into the little details which greatly help with immersion. Things like the minigun barrels rebounding if they don't build enough momentum, or the screen shaking slightly when you get electrocuted, or the weapon subtly swaying as you jump. I'm not 100% sure those things weren't already in the game and that I simply hadn't noticed them, but they're appreciated either way. The new weapon modes add that little bit of extra depth in the gunplay over the simpler yet solid single mode mechanics, which is good. The new enemies also fill their niches quite well, and really serving to mix up the gameplay.

The level design in Heskel's House was pretty much how I dreamed the level design would be; it's got that sweet balance of non-linearity and set pieces that keep things interesting. I'm sure my jaw dropped when I first used the dukebox (for several songs), as well as the mircowave! The interactivity is really starting to approach what people would have expected from DNF back in the 90's. I'll admit I'm still a tad disappointed that you can't use things like taps or towel dispensers. The taps would just be a matter of having an invisible animated water sprite that gets toggled when used, with an added sound effect, and towel dispensers can spawn sprites that float to the floor and become floor aligned. Still, it wouldn't surprise me if the coders pull some tricks from their sleeves between now and release on that front. The way paintings react to explosives is also pretty cool and visceral. Shelly's expanded collection of catchphrases are helping to slowly flesh out her character.

I do have a small number of screenshots of glitches and oversights that I'll post another time.

[oasiz]

Glad you enjoyed it!

A lot of the game play stuff has been around for a long time and we kind of spent a lot of time nailing down nuances of movement / etc.. early on, Duke feels quite stiff when compared now, esp. jumping.
Many of us being Blood fans, we really appreciate the extra attention of detail that game has.

Jukebox actually uses different tricks compared to what I demonstrated in Duke, but that did inspire it originally.
I think in the end it's like about 3 layers deep triggering system again that trigger effects in a sequence, each "music" is it's own chain (stop rotation/music, lights, play sounds, Z move, swap picnum, Z move, play sounds, start rotation/lights/music) all timed manually.. Then there is a round robin selector that switches between 3 triggers.
Quite modular approach actually, adding arbitrary amount of songs is quite easy (Not to mention that I added functions to bulk change tags in m32, i.e. ALT and numpad+ will increase all selected sprite's lotag by one).
One nice trigger ability is to be able to toggle ambient audio on/off

[High Treason]

 TerminX, on 28 January 2019 - 01:03 AM, said:

OK, I'm officially creeped out by the fact that someone is still thinking about this months later and is even familiar with it enough for other maps in other games to remind them of it.

Oh good, so it's not just me. Do you have any idea how I feel knowing I once hosted those as part of my mirror of maps?
- Actually I'd imagine you do, given they were on one of the sites mirrored on Duke4 too.

I dunno man, just something about that room caused flashbacks. The dog is hardly any better, it's just a celebration of mental deficiency in another form, not gonna argue for the dog's removal though so whatever.


On a more positive note, Update 4 just appeared on 3D Realms' site.

[MusicallyInspired]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Ah, it's on GOG now too! Will have to try that when I get home. (Update 4.1)

[Hank]

 High Treason, on 28 January 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

The dog is hardly any better, it's just a celebration of mental deficiency in another form, not gonna argue for the dog's removal though so whatever.

I've got some good news as well - most pictures can be shot down. Use Loverboy and 'clean' offensive meme's

[Aristotle Gumball]

Really good stuff in terms of level design and gameplay, but I gotta say it's a lot less "edgy" than the other Build games. It somehow has less personality and the protagonist's voice doesn't really sell me on her character. Her lines are a bit cringy. I mean, humor was a big part of Blood, Duke, SW, etc, and it worked better in those games. Maybe there's more of a storyline in IM?

[NightFright]

Is it on 3DR already? It says update 4 and files are from Jan 25.

[Forge]

 NightFright, on 28 January 2019 - 08:32 AM, said:

Is it on 3DR already? It says update 4 and files are from Jan 25.

It only took them 3 days to post the file after they received it?

Yeah. I don't trust it either.

[Hendricks266]

 thricecursed, on 28 January 2019 - 07:35 AM, said:

Really good stuff in terms of level design and gameplay, but I gotta say it's a lot less "edgy" than the other Build games. It somehow has less personality and the protagonist's voice doesn't really sell me on her character. Her lines are a bit cringy. I mean, humor was a big part of Blood, Duke, SW, etc, and it worked better in those games. Maybe there's more of a storyline in IM?

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

[DavoX]

It's on 3DR and GOG.

[axl]

 Hendricks266, on 28 January 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

Some people are also too harsh. You can't compare a "new" character with some classic game characters. That is just unfair. I mean Caleb is a cult classic and Duke is a gaming icon...

So yeah, she's not the most awesome character ever (although I think some of the new lines are quite good, like "gotta keep em seperated"), but who really cares ? The main thing is the gameplay and the levels. And those appear to be rock solid.

[Aristotle Gumball]

 Hendricks266, on 28 January 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

I think it's because I have no idea who the character is, where she comes from and what kind of issues she deals with. I mean, in NOLF (one of my favorite games) you saw that Cate Archer was fighting against sexism and constantly had to prove her worth in her organization, but she did it without turning into a man. She retained her femininity while still being capable in her own unique way. Shell seems rather void of substance at this point, I don't know how else to put it. Kind of blank and asexual, if that makes sense. There needs to be more conflict in her character, a tragedy in her past maybe? Something to form an emotional connection.

[Forge]

I don't mind, but here's the problem with Shelly, as I see it.
All her lines have the same general inflection. After awhile it just becomes a flat, interchangeable, background sound. I listen to it once or twice, then I tune it out.
I don't hate it. I don't love it. I ignore it after awhile, but, like scenery, I'd definitely notice if it were missing.

If you want some depth, or whatever, start and end episodes with short cutscenes (that can be skipped by those that only care about playing the game)

[Aristotle Gumball]

 Forge, on 28 January 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

I don't mind, but here's the problem with Shelly, as I see it.
All her lines have the same general inflection. After awhile it just becomes a flat, interchangeable, background sound. I listen to it once or twice, then I tune it out.

If you want some depth, or whatever, start and end episodes with short cutscenes (that can be skipped by those that only care about playing the game)

Yeah, agreed with that. It sounds like she's not really invested in what's going on or sees it like a video game. Just shootin' some bad guys! Woopdedoo.

Ditto on cutscenes, or just anything. Doomguy might not make sense but he's your classic silent protagonist. You can write your own story in your mind. But you can't have something that's half way. I mean, the first time I heard Caleb yell "Show yourself!" after finding Ophelia I nearly crapped my pants. It actually had some emotional weight to it. This feels like it's trying to be half serious, half joking, so it's neither here nor there.

PS. I too care more about the overall design and feel of the gameplay itself, but newer audiences and especially those unacquainted with oldschool shooters will really notice the details.

[DavoX]

 Forge, on 28 January 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

I don't mind, but here's the problem with Shelly, as I see it.
All her lines have the same general inflection. After awhile it just becomes a flat, interchangeable, background sound. I listen to it once or twice, then I tune it out.
I don't hate it. I don't love it. I ignore it after awhile, but, like scenery, I'd definitely notice if it were missing.

If you want some depth, or whatever, start and end episodes with short cutscenes (that can be skipped by those that only care about playing the game)

In that sense the line "bowling bomb likes you!" has become my favourite, as its really different from all the others.

[Jblade]

I like her VA and her lines; the context sensitive lines about each weapon and armor gives her a bit of personality...more gameplay related things like that would be neat (maybe even have her cuss if she's reloading whilst taking fire)

Quote

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

It's definitely nostalgia, and I remember seeing the 'suggestions' for DK dialogue as well. They were atrocious. IM has definitely got its own feel now that it doesn't need comparing to the build brothers trilogy.

[MusicallyInspired]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really like Shelly's voice. I actually found in my initial playthroughs that she didn't talk as much as I was kind of wanting her to. I guess that's good in that it's not overdone, but at the time I was wanting more.

[Forge]

I think her base voice is fine. Most of the sayings and quotes are fine. It's not about liking or disliking her voice - it's about the variety of emphasis in her lines. There are very few that stand out, one from another.
In normy speak - they mostly sound the same. I have pretty bad tinnitus, so that makes it even worse.

It makes me think Shelly is the android, she's actually killing humans, and this is some weird twisted-perspective game.

[TerminX]

 thricecursed, on 28 January 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yeah, agreed with that. It sounds like she's not really invested in what's going on or sees it like a video game. Just shootin' some bad guys! Woopdedoo.

I think you can say the same for Duke3D and SW, honestly. I always found not taking things 100% seriously to be a big part of the personalities of those characters. Shelly is modeled after them to an extent.

Quote

Doomguy might not make sense but he's your classic silent protagonist. You can write your own story in your mind.

Yeah, but Doom came out when PC speaker sound effects were still a thing. Silent protagonists were all you got if stopping the game for the player to read things wasn't an option.

Anyway, I do appreciate everyone's feedback, positive and negative, as I tend to end up responsible for writing the lines and directing the VA sessions.

 Forge, on 28 January 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

I think her base voice is fine. Most of the sayings and quotes are fine. It's not about liking or disliking her voice - it's about the variety of emphasis in her lines. There are very few that stand out, one from another.
In normy speak - they mostly sound the same. I have pretty bad tinnitus, so that makes it even worse.

It makes me think Shelly is the android, she's actually killing humans, and this is some weird twisted-perspective game.

Hmm... all of the one-off situational lines tend to be spoken differently than the weapon pickup lines, which tend to be spoken differently than the lines said during kills. What more of a difference were you looking for? I'm open to suggestions despite them already sounding different to me.

[Danukem]

Saying that voice acting is "cringe" or "cringey" is kind of useless as a criticism, because it's so nonspecific. I remember being a little annoyed at a youtube comment on a different Shelly that we have in Alien Armageddon, saying that the VA was "cringe". Hard to tell if it's a criticism of the voice itself, the lines, or both. All you can do is go back and try to make it better, I guess. People expect a lot from their video game protagonists these days.

[NNC]

Doomguy has the best personality of all. Sure, he doesn't talk, but his grunts and facial expressions are all timeless, and add lots of personality you can relate yourself to.

If I want to improve Shelly somehow, then I would consider removing the copycat stuff from other games. I mean, we don't need Shelly to mimic the Doomguy's facial expressions (she even has a glaring eye when god mode is on). We don't need her to kick heads like Caleb. We don't need her to say "Fire in a hole asshole", what is a traditional Duke speech.

It's a bit like New Super Mario Bros games, when they wanted to grab everything from the previous classics and threw them in the modern games, including flagpoles of SMB, airships from SMB3, red coins from Yoshi's Island and so on. The original games never copied each other, they all owned their trademark identities.

Shelly's personality and charisma is just fine. But I would like some very Shelly gameplay elements that weren't present in other games. Like Blood has a different set of keys for example, not colour based. SW has that running gags with anime girls. Duke had his own babes. Shelly should run into a totally different stuff in his journey, something that aren't there in the original game. For example using special toilets as checkpoints. Or if that is not PC enough, something else.

Bowling bomb so far is the best Shelly identity. It should be a running gag for example. Many different types of bowling adventures.