[Gameplay Nut]

The Commander, on 27 December 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

A lot of them suggestions sounds like you should be playing COD and not Duke...

Stamina, Leaning, these are not features exclusive to COD, let alone First Person games. The first FP game to feature these mechanics was System Shock (1994), and Duke+ already appears to (possibly) take inspiration from games of that type (Thief, Deus Ex, Ultima Underworld etc) since it has mantling, greater interactivity and such. I could be entirely wrong, it's just the impression I got.

Expansion to stamina would enforce more tactical gameplay and challenge, lean...well lean wouldn't do much for this specific game except add to the illusion of freedom, but I already admitted it was an unsuitable suggestion, well not exactly, as more freedom and control is always better is my philosophy, but it just wouldn't do anything in combat and duke is all about high speed combat.

As for aim down the sights, have you not played Brutal Doom yet? It is implemented in such a way that it only adds to the game, never detracts from running and gunning.

Headshot hitboxes and option to disable aim assist from D+ menu. To be against this is questionable, as it is all about precision shooting. And I am not talking about instakill headshots either, simply a 1.3 multiplier or something. Only argument against this from a player's POV is that it could make the game too easy even on the hardest difficulty setting, but since D+ is almost entirely toggleable bools, well there is no argument from a player's POV.

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

The gravity gun has been in Duke Plus since 2008. There's an option in the menu for it to replace the expander. It is featured heavily in the Project Zero map, as seen in this video, starting at 2:05

Cool. Strange that I missed that, or possibly planned to use it but was scared of not having the shrinker for the big bad brutes.

[Danukem]

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Stamina, Leaning, these are not features exclusive to COD, let alone First Person games. The first FP game to feature these mechanics was System Shock (1994), and Duke+ already appears to (possibly) take inspiration from games of that type (Thief, Deus Ex, Ultima Underworld etc) since it has mantling, greater interactivity and such. I could be entirely wrong, it's just the impression I got.

In the old days, I was learning to code and I would add features without giving it much thought because I wanted to show what I could do. Some of that stuff came from an older, unreleased project that I called "Duke Ex", which was going to be like Deus Ex, but with even more realism. It was easy to justify rolling new features into Duke Plus when there were mappers who wanted to use them and I was having fun doing it. Mantling and some of the other features I added don't fit in well with the classic gameplay of Duke 3D, though. They can still be fun, especially in maps designed for them, but I'm not going to pretend that all the features in Duke Plus make a cohesive whole.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Headshot hitboxes and option to disable aim assist from D+ menu. To be against this is questionable, as it is all about precision shooting. And I am not talking about instakill headshots either, simply a 1.3 multiplier or something. Only argument against this from a player's POV is that it could make the game too easy even on the hardest difficulty setting, but since D+ is almost entirely toggleable bools, well there is no argument from a player's POV.

I would prefer headshots with the possibility of shooting heads clean off of enemies, like James added in AMC TC. But since Duke Plus is supposed to be HRP compatible, that would require including a set of headless HRP models, complete with dying animations. The other problem is, there isn't a good way of implementing hit boxes in Duke 3D. Also, the head positions in the sprites don't match up perfectly with those from the models. This was enough to make me reluctant to add the feature even when I was actively modding.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Cool. Strange that I missed that, or possibly planned to use it but was scared of not having the shrinker for the big bad brutes.

IIRC, the gravity gun replaces the expander, not the shrinker.

[Gameplay Nut]

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

In the old days, I was learning to code and I would add features without giving it much thought because I wanted to show what I could do. Some of that stuff came from an older, unreleased project that I called "Duke Ex", which was going to be like Deus Ex, but with even more realism. It was easy to justify rolling new features into Duke Plus when there were mappers who wanted to use them and I was having fun doing it. Mantling and some of the other features I added don't fit in well with the classic gameplay of Duke 3D, though. They can still be fun, especially in maps designed for them, but I'm not going to pretend that all the features in Duke Plus make a cohesive whole.

I disagree. Mantling is brilliant! For what reason do you believe it to not work well with Duke? Sure the original levels were not designed with mantling in mind, but it works perfectly nonetheless. I don't like that the ledge grab is automated though, should have to hold interact for deeper and more challenging platforming ...or this too to be an optional bool.

Quote

IIRC, the gravity gun replaces the expander, not the shrinker.

IIRC? Been that long eh?

Also, I do believe the features to make a cohesive whole because the majority of it is entirely optional so it can be as cohesive as the player wants it to be.
None of the features made me think "hang on, this does not belong in Duke at all". Sure you can set the knockback ridiculously high, among other things, but that's just for fun and you may as well add it for those who want to dick around. I kept it at the default, but it's all options and no player can argue with options if they are well implemented, which they were.

Fucking good job I say and I wish there were more modders that focused on gameplay enhancement.
Come back and mod old Duke further!

There is one solid suggestion I haven't requested yet. A cohesive one: http://www.moddb.com.../gmdx6#imagebox
Hardcore mode. Once chosen, as in my mod, certain options are no more. Save scumming is no longer possible, weapons have to be manually reloaded and the console cannot be accessed. It works wonders for those who seek a challenge.

[Micky C]

The problem with mantling is that it reduces the jump height of the player to compensate, which makes it a bit more cumbersome to get to higher places. Besides, in older maps which aren't designed for mantling, the feature is basically useless, or even worse, it allows the player to reach places which would normally be impossible to get to, which could break the atmosphere and progression of the map. When used properly it's pretty cool though.

But like Trooper Dan said, there are other mods and TCs out there that have these features. The AMC TC has headshots, ironsights, leaning, and stamina used in various ways. Considering that you haven't mentioned it in any of your posts I can infer that you've never played it, in which case you should absolutely try it out since it sounds like you'll love the features. WGRealms 2 also has some pretty cool headshots but none of the other features you mentioned. Note that these are Total Conversions and make a few changes to the game's core gameplay.

[Gameplay Nut]

Plain Simple Garek, on 28 December 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

But like Trooper Dan said, there are other mods and TCs out there that have these features. The AMC TC has headshots, ironsights, leaning, and stamina used in various ways. Considering that you haven't mentioned it in any of your posts I can infer that you've never played it, in which case you should absolutely try it out since it sounds like you'll love the features. WGRealms 2 also has some pretty cool headshots but none of the other features you mentioned. Note that these are Total Conversions and make a few changes to the game's core gameplay.

! added AMC TC to backlog but with high priority listing.

As for mantling, more specifically the word "cumbersome", I disagree. it just works. It could be really damn good in maps designed for it, but I enjoyed it in the main game regardless. I cannot argue with it allowing you to break original map flow though. I never found such instances but I'll take your word for it.

Still, D+ is great as it is. And mantling is an option, so no harm done

Edit: Wait, "get to higher players". I see, you are talking about multiplayer. Yeah, I can see how that would be a problem. I am a SP-centric guy. Still enjoy MP from time to time but SP is primary for me.

[Micky C]

Hmm I actually did mean places, it must've been a Freudian slip. Dukeplus doesn't work with the old multiplayer because it gets out of sync, and I'm not sure about the upcoming improved multiplayer but chances are it would take some work to get it working in that.

[Danukem]

By the way, when I said that mantling and some of the other features in DukePlus don't fit in well with classic gameplay, I didn't mean that the new features are broken. They work fine, but they still don't really fit in. Mantling slows the game down a bit because you have to keep stopping on ledges, grunting and pulling yourself up. Also, it's a bit arbitrary. Why have realistic mantling when 90% of the rest of the game is still unrealistic? I'm not saying it's bad, but I probably wouldn't code it again today unless it was part of a TC with a bunch of other features that were all designed to go together to create a realistic atmosphere.

[Gameplay Nut]

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

By the way, when I said that mantling and some of the other features in DukePlus don't fit in well with classic gameplay, I didn't mean that the new features are broken. They work fine, but they still don't really fit in. Mantling slows the game down a bit because you have to keep stopping on ledges, grunting and pulling yourself up. Also, it's a bit arbitrary. Why have realistic mantling when 90% of the rest of the game is still unrealistic? I'm not saying it's bad, but I probably wouldn't code it again today unless it was part of a TC with a bunch of other features that were all designed to go together to create a realistic atmosphere.

It's ~1.8 secs in total if you immediately pull up. lets say 3 minutes total on average across the whole duke campaign is spent mantling.
It fits in perfectly fine. however It would do a lot for gameplay if you had to manually ledge grab.
Another benefit is it removes the annoying but minor quirk of old school platforming, that is not being able to jump up on something unless you can get the base of your player character up there. With mantling you only need for your waist (or whatever) to be within proximity of a ledge to be able to climb up.
Additionally that time spent mantling is something to consider tactfully in combat if you are getting shot in the ass before you jump.
You're right though, as it stands it doesn't add a whole lot to the experience, I can understand why you would not add it if you could turn back time/made a Return to Castle Wolfenstien+ or something, but I only see it as an overall benefit really. it's benefits are minor but they are benefits nonetheless.

[Danukem]

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

It's ~1.8 secs in total if you immediately pull up. lets say 3 minutes total on average across the whole duke campaign is spent mantling.

Admittedly that doesn't sound too bad, but in maps (particularly user maps) with jumping puzzles, it is quite a departure from the normal fast-paced gameplay. But if you want to talk about DP features that really change the game, I think the pokeball option wins the prize.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

It fits in perfectly fine. however It would do a lot for gameplay if you had to manually ledge grab.

But then people would have to remember to hold the use key and they would think the game is broken because they wouldn't know. It would be very easy to add that feature but I don't want to deal with the confusion at this point.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Another benefit is it removes the annoying but minor quirk of old school platforming, that is not being able to jump up on something unless you can get the base of your player character up there. With mantling you only need for your waist (or whatever) to be within proximity of a ledge to be able to climb up.

Yes that's the main reason I added it in conjunction with lowered jumping height. I can accept a lot of unrealistic things in old shooters, but being able to jump 3 meters straight upwards yet not be able to climb onto a surface unless your feet land on it is hard to accept.

The other reason I added it is because Duke's default jump is not only ridiculously high, but it lacks normal physics. It's as if he is hitting a ceiling and then something is pushing him back down. The shorter jump, on the other hand, works correctly.

[Gameplay Nut]

Trooper Dan, on 29 December 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

But then people would have to remember to hold the use key and they would think the game is broken because they wouldn't know. It would be very easy to add that feature but I don't want to deal with the confusion at this point.

Optional bool. False by default. Help/description text appearing alongside if need be.

Now I am pestering

Quote

The other reason I added it is because Duke's default jump is not only ridiculously high, but it lacks normal physics. It's as if he is hitting a ceiling and then something is pushing him back down. The shorter jump, on the other hand, works correctly.

Heh, yeah. Been a while since I played vanilla Duke but I remember that quite clearly now.

[DavoX]

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

By the way, when I said that mantling and some of the other features in DukePlus don't fit in well with classic gameplay, I didn't mean that the new features are broken. They work fine, but they still don't really fit in. Mantling slows the game down a bit because you have to keep stopping on ledges, grunting and pulling yourself up. Also, it's a bit arbitrary. Why have realistic mantling when 90% of the rest of the game is still unrealistic? I'm not saying it's bad, but I probably wouldn't code it again today unless it was part of a TC with a bunch of other features that were all designed to go together to create a realistic atmosphere.

Like Freerunner?

[supergoofy]

EDuke32 r4237 freezes when launched with DukePlus

EDuke32 r4096 works fine with DukePlus (including the 64bit binary by LeoD)

I don't know if this bug is related to SDL 2.0x implementation (currently 2.01 is used with r4237)

[Hendricks266]

Can you do any more bisection--was it SDL itself?

[LeoD]

 supergoofy, on 01 January 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

EDuke32 r4237 freezes when launched with DukePlus
I don't know if this bug is related to SDL 2.0x implementation (currently 2.01 is used with r4237)

Can't confirm. Post your log. Follow my signature and try the latest non-SDL build.
Happy new year, guys.

[supergoofy]

First I launch DukePlus with this:
EDuke32.exe -game_dir DukePlus
(or select DukePlus folder in eduke32's startup window)

I also check autoload, polymer, fullscreen.


Spotted the problem:

On a clean installation (were no .cfg files exist), it happens this:

The latest official r4237 cannot create the file DukePlus\dp.cfg . Normally eduke32 should ask you if you want to use the settings from eduke32.cfg before the creation of dp.cfg. This doesn't happen, instead eduke32 freezes and it doesn't create any DukePlus\dp.cfg

Now if I create manually an empty DukePlus\dp.cfg (0 bytes), then eduke32 works and the game starts.

So, the bug is related with the existence of DukePlus\dp.cfg. If it doesn't exist then eduke32 freezes. But if I create an empty dp.cfg, then eduke32 works.

The bug doesn't happen with LeoD's nonSDL binary (eduke64-r4237-20140101-nonSDL.7z)


Thus, its seems that the bug has something to do with SDL2


Happy New Year

[Hendricks266]

The problem is caused because the SDL code goes into an infinite loop when the startup window should be querying the user for something. You can trigger the same thing by putting an error in your CON files.

[OpenMaw]

I have three questions relating to DP/Eternity.

A. How do I completely disable the HUD interface? I don't want anything showing up on the screen
B. Is it possible for the player to be visible during a cutscene?
C. How do I disable the player emitting a light source?

[Danukem]

Commando Nukem, on 28 April 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

I have three questions relating to DP/Eternity.

A. How do I completely disable the HUD interface? I don't want anything showing up on the screen
B. Is it possible for the player to be visible during a cutscene?
C. How do I disable the player emitting a light source?

It's been a while...I thought the player was visible during cutscenes. As for A: if you can't disable the HUD in the usual way, by changing the screen size, then it would require modifying the DukePlus code. Disabling the light source would also require a code change.

Did you need these changes for making your own videos?

[OpenMaw]

It may be a glitch related to Eternity? I'll try starting with a clean install and see if that fixes it.

When I triggered a cutscene camera, the player is invisible, except for his light source.


Changing the screen size does not remove the magazine/shells on the left, or the "DP" that appears in the upper right.





And yeah, i'm seeing if I can make use of DP/Eternity for a animation project.

[Danukem]

Commando Nukem, on 28 April 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

It may be a glitch related to Eternity? I'll try starting with a clean install and see if that fixes it.

It's not a glitch. I just checked the code and there is nothing that would make the player visible. The player sprite is invisible by default -- multiplayer and mirrors are special cases where players can be seen. To add an option for player visibility during cutscenes, I would make it a new bit value on the SE90 that controls the camera. It would require changing the cstat of the player's tsprite.

[OpenMaw]

Don't suppose I could twist your arm to make that tweak?

[TON]

When I press f7 on dukebike doesn't show the first person view correctly

Please, has anyone solved it?

[Danukem]

TON, on 19 September 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

When I press f7 on dukebike doesn't show the first person view correctly

Please, has anyone solved it?

What does it do? From your post, I can't tell if the behavior has changed or is working as intended.

[TON]

Trooper Dan, on 19 September 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

What does it do? From your post, I can't tell if the behavior has changed or is working as intended.

When I press f7 nothing happens, if I continue pressing f7 the handlebars of the dukebike appears (it's the first person view) but the image flickers and disappears

[Danukem]

TON, on 20 September 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

When I press f7 nothing happens, if I continue pressing f7 the handlebars of the dukebike appears (it's the first person view) but the image flickers and disappears

Ok, that's bad. Does anyone know how long this has been going on? I'm pretty sure that the bike HUD code hasn't been touched in ages.

[tomo]

Hey Trooper Dan,if it's not a problem could you point me in the right direction on changing the distance between the akimbo pistols in Duke Plus to be something more like Attrition i prefer the feel in Attrition,any help would be appreciated thanks.

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[Danukem]

Since you are using the models and not the sprites, you might be able to do it by changing the model defs for the hud pistol. That would be very easy to do and doesn't require changing the game code. You would need to change xadd and maybe angadd.

[tomo]

Yeah i thought i might be able to change it like that,thanks for the reply.

[LeoD]

As of EDuke32 r4987, cutscene has been added as a CON language keyword. This conflicts with a gamevar of the same name in USERPLUS.CON and will prevent DukePlus from starting. However, that gamevar appears to be unused, so the according line of code can simply be commented out. I have updated the downloads of the DukePlus NixFix and the Z-Pack to deal with that, both available at the usual place.

[Danukem]

LeoD, on 16 February 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

As of EDuke32 r4987, cutscene has been added as a CON language keyword. This conflicts with a gamevar of the same name in USERPLUS.CON and will prevent DukePlus from starting. However, that gamevar appears to be unused, so the according line of code can simply be commented out. I have updated the downloads of the DukePlus NixFix and the Z-Pack to deal with that, both available at the usual place.

Thank you for your stewardship! You are correct, the cutsene var is not used in DukePlus and can safely be removed. Unfortunately, the cutscene var is definitely used in the WGR2 TC. It would also not surprise me if others have made mods and TCs using a var with that name.

EDIT: Just checked wiki and the new keyword isn't there yet. I hope it could be renamed to something else, such as "showscene". Or better yet (from my standpoint), allow vars to have the same names as commands (although that would require making the compiler do extra work).