[Spiker]

I can experiment with size a bit. But as you noticed my aim was to make it close to the sprite because if I didn't do that some guys would complain. Every change is a kind of compromise and model will never look exactly like sprite because it would look stupid. No matter what you wont get 100% satisfactory result because then you would have to forget about 8 bit completely.

[Night Wolf]

 Spiker, on Aug 11 2010, 06:15 PM, said:

I can experiment with size a bit. But as you noticed my aim was to make it close to the sprite because if I didn't do that some guys would complain. Every change is a kind of compromise and model will never look exactly like sprite because it would look stupid. No matter what you wont get 100% satisfactory result because then you would have to forget about 8 bit completely.

This shotgun is a tricky one.
I think in some terms its best to avoid faithfulness 8bit sprites, the sprite shotgun looked weird to begin with (size wise)
I think it would be best to just forget scaling it down.
It really does look weird having a shotgun the same size as a handgun.

Imo, I would go for a more modern approach as seen in the link I posted
why not improve from the sprites....

I wonder how the duke plus shotgun worked

Edit: heres another picture of a modern game shotgun HUD
Its actually quite simmilar to the one in duke without the pump handle & a shorter heat sheild

http://img.techpowerup.org/070906/MOHA%202...23-38-39-70.jpg

now if the shotgun looked somewhat like this we would have a winner, imo.

[NightFright]

BTW: Since removing pre-made palettes for #707/708 worked well, it should be checked if it is safe to remove any palettes different from pal0 for other highres tiles, too. Some HRP filesize could be cut off if we didn't need extra tiles for pal1-x any more.

[Cage]

Hope that's the final revision of my #4112





Normal and spec for Ozz's #276

[Night Wolf]

 NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

BTW: Since removing pre-made palettes for #707/708 worked well, it should be checked if it is safe to remove any palettes different from pal0 for other highres tiles, too. Some HRP filesize could be cut off if we didn't need extra tiles for pal1-x any more.

Indeed ... that being said, maybe #0276 pals should be removed?

.................

@Cage

Nice work ... it would be interesting to see a parallax version of #276

[SchoeteCitie]

Alright how do i get the new shotgun model to work? i downloaded the latest polymer hrp but it still has the original stretched shotgun model then i deleted the shotgun in first person in the HRP zip and put the shotgun.zip in my autoload but it still doesnt work.

[NightFright]

SVN build #144 committed. Changes:

> Added: #276_n/s; 4112_s
> Modified: #4112_d/n
> Removed: Outdated/unused textures (#151, 181, 191, 293, 297, 312, 362, 414, 448, 449, 457, 458, 749, 781, 783, 823, 884, 1169, 1215-1217, 3397, 4112, 4130-4133)

------------------

Regarding autotinting:
It seems it does not work for all tiles, e.g. #297 needs predefined tile, otherwise it is displayed with default color in E2L3. Every tile has to be checked before its pal can be removed from HRP, it seems...

Commented-out normal/spec maps in textures.def:
These should be checked and fixed by someone, if possible.
> 0070 --> normal map existing, spec missing
> 0186 --> 0186_s looks like 0186_d
> 0297 --> not tested yet
> 0313 --> not finished/integrated
> 0381 --> n/s not existing
> 1024 --> n/s not existing
> 1097 --> current defs cause display errors
> 4112 --> incorrect defs

[Master Fibbles]

 SchoeteCitie, on Aug 11 2010, 09:39 AM, said:

Alright how do i get the new shotgun model to work? i downloaded the latest polymer hrp but it still has the original stretched shotgun model then i deleted the shotgun in first person in the HRP zip and put the shotgun.zip in my autoload but it still doesnt work.

The files are not put in folders correctly in the zip. You have to change the folder structure.

Since I haven't spent the time to integrate the shotgun defs with my other defs, I don't have a fully working setup either (but the shotgun works).

[NightFright]

 SchoeteCitie, on Aug 11 2010, 04:39 PM, said:

Alright how do i get the new shotgun model to work? i downloaded the latest polymer hrp but it still has the original stretched shotgun model then i deleted the shotgun in first person in the HRP zip and put the shotgun.zip in my autoload but it still doesnt work.

Try putting attached zipfile into HRP autoload folder. Note that you should not integrate this into your HRP file.

[SchoeteCitie]

NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 10:32 AM, said:

Try putting attached zipfile into HRP autoload folder. Note that you should not integrate this into your HRP file.

Thanks, also i'd like to say the shotguns muzzle is weird.The gun shoots the muzzle goes down then it goes big and then down and then it reloads, It looks like it fires 2 times in a row.

[Spiker]

There is only one frame with visible muzzleflash but there are only 4 frames in total to use. And this how eduke32 blends them so it can't be fixed. If one could define the weapon as one tile then it would make animation much better and smoother but unfortunately it's possible only with custom weapons like in Dukeplus.

[Hendricks266]

NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 05:04 AM, said:

BTW: Since removing pre-made palettes for #707/708 worked well, it should be checked if it is safe to remove any palettes different from pal0 for other highres tiles, too. Some HRP filesize could be cut off if we didn't need extra tiles for pal1-x any more.

HRP filesize should not matter. Any removal of pals should be 1) only pals 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, and 8; 2) be on an individual basis.

NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 11:48 AM, said:

SVN build #144 committed. Changes:
> Removed: Outdated/unused textures (#151, 181, 191, 293, 297, 312, 362, 414, 448, 449, 457, 458, 748, 781, 783, 823, 884, 1169, 1215-1217, 3397, 4112, 4130-4133)

Good job annihilating a large amount of Polymost compatibility. This should be reverted.

[NightFright]

Hmmm, but these tiles are not defined in the defs. Are they used anyway?

[Night Wolf]

Hey Nightfright ..
Can you refresh your browser and add in 0742 - n/s again ... I updated the link a bit after I posted them, looks like you added the ones before I updated them.
Cheers.

[Hendricks266]

NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 03:36 PM, said:

Hmmm, but these tiles are not defined in the defs. Are they used anyway?

That's only because the separate DEF syntax for Polymost textures and Polymer diffuses has not been implemented yet.

[NightFright]

Well, I will put the tiles back as soon as I can. I always wondered if the game can choose between a <tilenum> or <tilenum>_d file on its own, depending on whether you have activated Polymer or Polymost renderer. If it is able to use a tile without "_d" ending without having it defined, I did not know that.

[PimpUigi]

I don't think the circled area looks quite right. Seems like the Bioshock shotgun a little even.


This is how it looks in the sprite.

I also think the shotgun is overall too dark, though I do have a VA LCD Panel, and black crush is an issue.

I think the Atomic symbol could be moved up a few pixels, and the thing the shell falls out of could be shortened by that same amount.

I also think it animates extremely poorly, and that the muzzle flash is bad.
I wish we could just use the standard, sprite muzzle flash.

[Spiker]

Don't know if you noticed but these two pics show different perspective. I have an idea what to do with muzzleflash, hopefully it will work. I will also test one thing with animation.

[Green]

Just thought I'd provide my input for the shotgun.
The Nuke on the original sprite is more visible and the extractor is on the curved part of the shotgun (slightly higher then where it is now)
The texture doesn't seem to be very detailed as well as appearing too dark, the muzzleflash doesn't work correctly (black corners) and when reloading it looks like a cripple trying to reload it. (perhaps put more frames in for a smoother, nicer looking animation)
Also, in the original sprite the shotgun looks more like a dark shade of grey then black.

[PimpUigi]

You're right. My bad.

As you can see, that thing at the end of the bottom barrel is not viewable here (I think it looks weird when it's there personally)


Plus If we can move the shotgun just a tiny bit, we can align it with the already very nice muzzle flash.



It does need to be noted however, that you are doing an amazing job so far. I am impressed with the way things look currently, it's just there are very loose ends, the animation being the biggest one I imagine.

[Tea Monster]

I'd hazzard a guess to say that a lot of the problems of the cocking animation are due to the old Field of View problem. You'll see that the shotgun seems to elongate as it cocks. It might be worth bugging Plagman and seeing if he can do something with adjusting the FOV in the HUD while he's working his magic on the rest of the visuals there.

The shotty will look really dark until we get specular highlights on the model.

[Night Wolf]

The back of the shotgun should be thicker ,it's too thin and looks a little sharp should be smoother surely a few more "polygons" could be added (if that the correct term)
The hand is way smaller then what it should be too.
Other then the back part and the hand it looks pretty good.

Be good to see shot of the model in the modeling program and not duke since the game has a weird feild of view.
...................................


Judging for the screenshot above it appears the correct defs for 0723/0764 ...were never added... and the windows are refelecting way too much light.

They should be this.

texture 723 {
pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0723.png" }
normal { file "highres/textures/0723_n.png" parallaxbias 0.04 parallaxscale 0.05 }
specular { file "highres/textures/0723_s.png" }
detail { file "highres/detail/concrete.png" xscale 0.15 yscale 0.075 }
}

texture 764 {
pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0764.png" }
normal { file "highres/textures/0764_n.png" parallaxbias 0.0 parallaxscale 0.04 }
specular { file "highres/textures/0764_s.png" }
detail { file "highres/detail/concrete.png" xscale 0.15 yscale 0.15 }
}

[PimpUigi]

TBH the size is very close to perfect though.

[NightFright]

I think the HUD shotgun skin should not be judged too early before we see normal/spec mapping activated, as Tea Monster mentioned. However, until we have that, maybe it should be considered to provide a temporary Polymost skin so that it looks better for the time being.

[Parkar]

NightFright, on Aug 12 2010, 10:33 AM, said:

Well, I will put the tiles back as soon as I can. I always wondered if the game can choose between a <tilenum> or <tilenum>_d file on its own, depending on whether you have activated Polymer or Polymost renderer. If it is able to use a tile without "_d" ending without having it defined, I did not know that.

It's can't just yet but the plan is that the defs should be able to define both a diffuse and an old school texture for polymost.

[PimpUigi]

NightFright, on Aug 12 2010, 08:15 AM, said:

I think the HUD shotgun skin should not be judged too early before we see normal/spec mapping activated, as Tea Monster mentioned. However, until we have that, maybe it should be considered to provide a temporary Polymost skin so that it looks better for the time being.

I do think it's a great skin overall, I see lighting will come in with spec mapping.
My only two problems with it are the chamber+Atomic symbol being too low (I should have circled them as well) as well as the end of the bottom barrel.
Maybe the overall detail is a little lacking/compressed looking too, but I can't tell until we get the lighting I guess.

[Spiker]

I start regreting that I've made this shotgun. First of all there are no other details that could be applied to the skin and all the lighting is meant to come from other source. Also it's an extremly bad idea to make a model 100 % like a sprite unless its static, this causes more problems than you can think, these sprites have unrealistic dimensions and perspective. I'm sure that you wouldn't notice any problems if you didn't compare it pixel by pixel. To sum up models will NEVER be like sprites. If you don't like the shotgun you can play without HRP or ..... remove it from the SVN, I don't care.

[Roma Loom]

The only mistake was to put it in SVN before plymer HUD implemented.
@Nightfright: I'll check all those missing stuff in you've pointed but some things should be said before:
1. I don't know where JPGs for #1097 came from but this is bad. Especially or normal map since JPGs have no alpha channel. Also I have both normal and specular maps for this tile right near the JPG files, marked for upload, deleted JPGs.
2. De-commented > 4112 - spec and normal work fine for me. what exactly wrong with defs?
3. normal map for #70 is commented, why?

[MusicallyInspired]

It's a great shotgun, Spiker. I think it's superb.

[Night Wolf]

Roma Loom, on Aug 13 2010, 02:24 AM, said:

1. I don't know where JPGs for #1097 came from but this is bad. Especially or normal map since JPGs have no alpha channel. Also I have both normal and specular maps for this tile right near the JPG files, marked for upload, deleted JPGs.

It's because they weren't meant to be added in ... these were examples posted on the forum ... the tile was never finished, and in the end I scrapped it.
It would have been impossible for me to make a parallax map for it.