[Spiker]

There is only one frame with visible muzzleflash but there are only 4 frames in total to use. And this how eduke32 blends them so it can't be fixed. If one could define the weapon as one tile then it would make animation much better and smoother but unfortunately it's possible only with custom weapons like in Dukeplus.

[Hendricks266]

NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 05:04 AM, said:

BTW: Since removing pre-made palettes for #707/708 worked well, it should be checked if it is safe to remove any palettes different from pal0 for other highres tiles, too. Some HRP filesize could be cut off if we didn't need extra tiles for pal1-x any more.

HRP filesize should not matter. Any removal of pals should be 1) only pals 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, and 8; 2) be on an individual basis.

NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 11:48 AM, said:

SVN build #144 committed. Changes:
> Removed: Outdated/unused textures (#151, 181, 191, 293, 297, 312, 362, 414, 448, 449, 457, 458, 748, 781, 783, 823, 884, 1169, 1215-1217, 3397, 4112, 4130-4133)

Good job annihilating a large amount of Polymost compatibility. This should be reverted.

[NightFright]

Hmmm, but these tiles are not defined in the defs. Are they used anyway?

[Night Wolf]

Hey Nightfright ..
Can you refresh your browser and add in 0742 - n/s again ... I updated the link a bit after I posted them, looks like you added the ones before I updated them.
Cheers.

[Hendricks266]

NightFright, on Aug 11 2010, 03:36 PM, said:

Hmmm, but these tiles are not defined in the defs. Are they used anyway?

That's only because the separate DEF syntax for Polymost textures and Polymer diffuses has not been implemented yet.

[NightFright]

Well, I will put the tiles back as soon as I can. I always wondered if the game can choose between a <tilenum> or <tilenum>_d file on its own, depending on whether you have activated Polymer or Polymost renderer. If it is able to use a tile without "_d" ending without having it defined, I did not know that.

[PimpUigi]

I don't think the circled area looks quite right. Seems like the Bioshock shotgun a little even.


This is how it looks in the sprite.

I also think the shotgun is overall too dark, though I do have a VA LCD Panel, and black crush is an issue.

I think the Atomic symbol could be moved up a few pixels, and the thing the shell falls out of could be shortened by that same amount.

I also think it animates extremely poorly, and that the muzzle flash is bad.
I wish we could just use the standard, sprite muzzle flash.

[Spiker]

Don't know if you noticed but these two pics show different perspective. I have an idea what to do with muzzleflash, hopefully it will work. I will also test one thing with animation.

[Green]

Just thought I'd provide my input for the shotgun.
The Nuke on the original sprite is more visible and the extractor is on the curved part of the shotgun (slightly higher then where it is now)
The texture doesn't seem to be very detailed as well as appearing too dark, the muzzleflash doesn't work correctly (black corners) and when reloading it looks like a cripple trying to reload it. (perhaps put more frames in for a smoother, nicer looking animation)
Also, in the original sprite the shotgun looks more like a dark shade of grey then black.

[PimpUigi]

You're right. My bad.

As you can see, that thing at the end of the bottom barrel is not viewable here (I think it looks weird when it's there personally)


Plus If we can move the shotgun just a tiny bit, we can align it with the already very nice muzzle flash.



It does need to be noted however, that you are doing an amazing job so far. I am impressed with the way things look currently, it's just there are very loose ends, the animation being the biggest one I imagine.

[Tea Monster]

I'd hazzard a guess to say that a lot of the problems of the cocking animation are due to the old Field of View problem. You'll see that the shotgun seems to elongate as it cocks. It might be worth bugging Plagman and seeing if he can do something with adjusting the FOV in the HUD while he's working his magic on the rest of the visuals there.

The shotty will look really dark until we get specular highlights on the model.

[Night Wolf]

The back of the shotgun should be thicker ,it's too thin and looks a little sharp should be smoother surely a few more "polygons" could be added (if that the correct term)
The hand is way smaller then what it should be too.
Other then the back part and the hand it looks pretty good.

Be good to see shot of the model in the modeling program and not duke since the game has a weird feild of view.
...................................


Judging for the screenshot above it appears the correct defs for 0723/0764 ...were never added... and the windows are refelecting way too much light.

They should be this.

texture 723 {
pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0723.png" }
normal { file "highres/textures/0723_n.png" parallaxbias 0.04 parallaxscale 0.05 }
specular { file "highres/textures/0723_s.png" }
detail { file "highres/detail/concrete.png" xscale 0.15 yscale 0.075 }
}

texture 764 {
pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0764.png" }
normal { file "highres/textures/0764_n.png" parallaxbias 0.0 parallaxscale 0.04 }
specular { file "highres/textures/0764_s.png" }
detail { file "highres/detail/concrete.png" xscale 0.15 yscale 0.15 }
}

[PimpUigi]

TBH the size is very close to perfect though.

[NightFright]

I think the HUD shotgun skin should not be judged too early before we see normal/spec mapping activated, as Tea Monster mentioned. However, until we have that, maybe it should be considered to provide a temporary Polymost skin so that it looks better for the time being.

[Parkar]

NightFright, on Aug 12 2010, 10:33 AM, said:

Well, I will put the tiles back as soon as I can. I always wondered if the game can choose between a <tilenum> or <tilenum>_d file on its own, depending on whether you have activated Polymer or Polymost renderer. If it is able to use a tile without "_d" ending without having it defined, I did not know that.

It's can't just yet but the plan is that the defs should be able to define both a diffuse and an old school texture for polymost.

[PimpUigi]

NightFright, on Aug 12 2010, 08:15 AM, said:

I think the HUD shotgun skin should not be judged too early before we see normal/spec mapping activated, as Tea Monster mentioned. However, until we have that, maybe it should be considered to provide a temporary Polymost skin so that it looks better for the time being.

I do think it's a great skin overall, I see lighting will come in with spec mapping.
My only two problems with it are the chamber+Atomic symbol being too low (I should have circled them as well) as well as the end of the bottom barrel.
Maybe the overall detail is a little lacking/compressed looking too, but I can't tell until we get the lighting I guess.

[Spiker]

I start regreting that I've made this shotgun. First of all there are no other details that could be applied to the skin and all the lighting is meant to come from other source. Also it's an extremly bad idea to make a model 100 % like a sprite unless its static, this causes more problems than you can think, these sprites have unrealistic dimensions and perspective. I'm sure that you wouldn't notice any problems if you didn't compare it pixel by pixel. To sum up models will NEVER be like sprites. If you don't like the shotgun you can play without HRP or ..... remove it from the SVN, I don't care.

[Roma Loom]

The only mistake was to put it in SVN before plymer HUD implemented.
@Nightfright: I'll check all those missing stuff in you've pointed but some things should be said before:
1. I don't know where JPGs for #1097 came from but this is bad. Especially or normal map since JPGs have no alpha channel. Also I have both normal and specular maps for this tile right near the JPG files, marked for upload, deleted JPGs.
2. De-commented > 4112 - spec and normal work fine for me. what exactly wrong with defs?
3. normal map for #70 is commented, why?

[MusicallyInspired]

It's a great shotgun, Spiker. I think it's superb.

[Night Wolf]

Roma Loom, on Aug 13 2010, 02:24 AM, said:

1. I don't know where JPGs for #1097 came from but this is bad. Especially or normal map since JPGs have no alpha channel. Also I have both normal and specular maps for this tile right near the JPG files, marked for upload, deleted JPGs.

It's because they weren't meant to be added in ... these were examples posted on the forum ... the tile was never finished, and in the end I scrapped it.
It would have been impossible for me to make a parallax map for it.

[NightFright]

Roma Loom, on Aug 12 2010, 06:24 PM, said:

The only mistake was to put it in SVN before plymer HUD implemented.
@Nightfright: I'll check all those missing stuff in you've pointed but some things should be said before:
1. I don't know where JPGs for #1097 came from but this is bad. Especially or normal map since JPGs have no alpha channel. Also I have both normal and specular maps for this tile right near the JPG files, marked for upload, deleted JPGs.
2. De-commented > 4112 - spec and normal work fine for me. what exactly wrong with defs?
3. normal map for #70 is commented, why?

1. It seems I added placeholder textures then, didn't know that. However, it'd be great if proper n/s maps could be provided for this.
2. I am not sure, I think the texture gets distorted once you approach it. Additional to that, I didn't really notice a "plastic" effect with these.
3. No idea. Does it work if you remove the comment lines?

[NightFright]

SVN build #145 committed. Changes:

> Modified: #742 n/s
> Re-added all textures removed in build #144
> Changed defs for #723/764

[PimpUigi]

Spiker, on Aug 12 2010, 10:40 AM, said:

I start regreting that I've made this shotgun. First of all there are no other details that could be applied to the skin and all the lighting is meant to come from other source. Also it's an extremly bad idea to make a model 100 % like a sprite unless its static, this causes more problems than you can think, these sprites have unrealistic dimensions and perspective. I'm sure that you wouldn't notice any problems if you didn't compare it pixel by pixel. To sum up models will NEVER be like sprites. If you don't like the shotgun you can play without HRP or ..... remove it from the SVN, I don't care.

Come on Spiker...it's a great job.
Like all works of art it needs constant improving.
I do art often, and I'm always digging up some old drawing or whatever to work on it and make it better.

I know models will never be like sprites, and I am very very happy with this job you did.
I really don't care about the chamber or whatever, and the atomic symbol...you did a beast job with it.
I mean, much better than I was expecting after the last model and thinking "What could you really do to make a good Duke Nukem Shotgun model with a good atomic symbol??" and you, you did it.

Apart from the animation and muzzle flash, and not actually comparing it to the sprite, I think part I circled at the end of the bottom part of the shotgun is the only thing I found off."
And that's from running around and using the shotgun, and the only reason I posted the sprite was so you could compare.

If I had to sum it up into numbers, 100% being the most impressed I could possibly be (and only my wife can really impress me that way, if you know what I mean ) and 50% being moderately impressed...
I'm 85% impressed. You really did a great job, and it'd be a shame for your to regret making anything.
We finally have a beast shotgun, the most important hud model, if I do say so myself.

I know it's a work in progress, but IMHO it can only get even better. And even better from where it already is, is pretty damn beast.
I don't know how to compliment you more while still giving your work some critique to make it even better...please don't think I dislike it. I don't know how to make myself more clear about how much it kicks ass.

Also, you don't need to be the only one who works on it if you don't want to, perhaps someone else can help with the animation.
I could line the model up with the sprite muzzle flash, though I'd have to figure out how to disable the new muzzle flash.

I really mean as well as possible : )

[Cage]

Blah, it seems I forget bump maps for parallax because I can't get the vaules right, but getting there slowly

Normal parallax for #276 and curtains #787

texture 787 {
  pal 0 { file "polytex/0787_d.png" }
  normal { file "polytex/0787_n.png" parallaxbias 0.2 parallaxscale 0.2 }
  specular { file "polytex/0787_s.png" }
}

texture 276 {
  pal 0 { file "polytex/0276_d.png" }
  normal { file "polytex/0276_n.png" parallaxbias 0.07 parallaxscale 0.25 }
  specular { file "polytex/0276_s.png" }
}

[Night Wolf]

Hmmm 0276 doesn't seem to reflect light well enough, needs more coloured parts if you get me... not sure how to explain that
also the actual light part should be more flat

more simmilar to this height wise (example)

[NightFright]

AFAIK, right now n/s maps can only be applied for pal0. If you have a tile like #276 with many other pals defined, it might not work for those. Also, it's a very small tile.

[Night Wolf]

The pals should be removed now anyway imo... since the duke3d def file was modified and the tint now comes up red insted of orange.

[NightFright]

Hehe, it's not that simple. Remove the yellow pal for this texture for example and see that it will be blue in E2L3...

[Night Wolf]

Why is there even a yellow pal?

I'm not using any pals for this tile and it looks fine.

[NightFright]

The yellow pal is there because the tile is yellow in some places, e.g. in E2L3. And if you remove the yellow palette from HRP, it will be blue, i.e. it will not have the correct color. I can post screenshots if you need proof. It is not like this for some other tiles, but removing pals everywhere will result in loss of "accuracy".