[Night Wolf]

I don't know if you realised TM ...
but the maps you have made for the cola machine is off in the handle thing to open the machine ...
its seems you modelled that from one of my first posts of the cola machine ( I later updated that handle thing)

I actually might update the metal border part of the machine ...
i'm not going to change the shapes of anything just the skin... so you wont have to remodel anything else

[BuddhaMaster]

ozz, on Jun 13 2010, 05:23 PM, said:

also preiew of normal map by Tea Monster

sorry for reposting pictures,
Nice, nice, nice
BUT the screen doesn't have enough depth impression/softness
It should have a nice shine around the edges that covers the rest and has sort of a self-illumination (visible in darkness)
This is where specular-map comes into play

I request to maintain a slightly spritely/exaggerated look thorough all the textures,
this is achieved by these rules:
1. Different type of Materials are easily identifiable from a distance
2. If a Texture doesn't look appealing from a distance, it isn't worth the details
3. Everything, even metal and concrete walls have a slight coat of plastic (probably they were mass-produced in china, think of it as a movie-set*).
Make sure round edges are really soft and round there are no real hard edges!


*This is how we will always remember DN3D, I also liked that comment about "faint color" appearance on different objects, as if the Duke world is a mix of 70's and some futuristic world.
This is dueDuke Nukem is a Show!

[Night Wolf]

@ BuddhaMaster.
yeah spec maps would be icing on the cake , if someone wants to make one for it , I'm a newb at normal spec maps etc

id also like to point out that these textures will be shrunk down to 256 x 256 .. currently in the screen shot they are 512 x 512....

I hate scaling down textures, when I shrink this one down some of the lines become thinner... anyone have any ideas to scale these down without loosing their shape?

[Tetsuo]

256x256 is a little small for a high res pack don't you think? Even in big budget commercial games when the textures are shrunk down to that size (or lower) you start getting not so great image quality especially for things like normal maps\etc. Like for example you could have a tile with a bolt on it but the bolt looks pretty pixelated and not at all sharp.

Also I don't think everything should be soft and rounded. The problem is the game originally lacked detail so like for example people where seeing different things in there. You could very well say "Everything is meant to look pixelated, grainy and non-distinct!" So it's partly left to personal interpretation. However I don't think Duke3D was ever a 70's style game.. more like an 80's style action movie game.

Think Arnold Shwarzenegger's movies in the 80's\early 90's... the most comparable movie stylewise I think is Last Action Hero... in fact now that I think of if they have much in common. The colors\style of the protaganist.. the parodies\pop culture references, the over the top action, the one liners, hard rock theme songs, etc. It's like Jack Slater (the hero in Last Action Hero) was a prototype of Duke Nukem. Him and other action stars of the 80's which he was also a parody\based off of.

The style of the original tiles should be maintained but with much more detail bringing it into the modern age and improved where appropriate. The last thing it needs is to be softened so much that it strays into cartoon territory... people have been complaining about cartoony colors as it is. This is Duke Nukem.. not Serious Sam II.

I personally am happy with the direction it is going although I do agree that having specular maps on things where appropriate would make things look nice.

[Night Wolf]

Tetsuo, on Jun 14 2010, 08:08 PM, said:

256x256 is a little small for a high res pack don't you think? Even in big budget commercial games when the textures are shrunk down to that size (or lower) you start getting not so great image quality especially for things like normal maps\etc. Like for example you could have a tile with a bolt on it but the bolt looks pretty pixelated and not at all sharp.

Totally agree , and its annoys me to have shrink tiles ...but the rules are 4x the size of the original ... which I think is stupid ... since some of the originals tiles are like 32x32 or smaller ...
some tiles should be bigger then just 4x ... like you said its not really "high resolution" if there so small...

Edit: I agree what your saying there Tetsuo soft and rounded is a NO that's where we went wrong in polymost, and one of the reasons it looked unrealistic besides the intense saturation ...

[Hendricks266]

I agree. 4x is the "standard" but do use good judgement. I think that 512x512 should be another baseline for textures, with 1024x1024 for detailed stuff, as has been done.

[Tea Monster]

I agree that 512 is a good 'minimum' size. They are going to be small tiles though. Try it out at 256. If there is anything about it that displeases you or looks pixellated or funny, then submit the tiles at 512 and it will be fine.

Rounding the edges of the model you are baking from is a technical limitation of the baking process. They use this process on Gears of War and it looks great there. The rounding isn't that apparent on objects, especially when you get a very detailed model.

Very much agree on the bright colours. Duke is supposed to be grungy. If there is no detail on the tile, I personally would put some weathering on there or something that I think WOULD have been there if the resolution had been higher. Stuff like manufacturers marks, instruction and warning panels, screws and fasteners. Also, a lot of plastic surfaces have a patterned surface to hide scuffs and fingerprints.

The process I used with the pistol was to study some real guns and work out where there were switches, fasteners, grips, etc. and apply that detail where it would fit in with the old sprite.

I'd do specular maps, but I've got two other models going for Duke mods and I've got 3 other projects on the go at the same time, so I really can't take anything else on at the moment. I help out here and there where I can, but I can't do all the spec maps or all the other stuff I've promised to do already will get completely sidelined.

There are a number of workflows that kind of automate a lot of processes. Like you have a separate scratch layer, and you make it medium grey for the diffuse, white for the spec and black for the bump on the detail layer.

This is a great general tut for this kind of thing:
http://forums.cgsoci...ad.php?t=373024

He goes into technical techniques AND the thought processes behind where to put detail/grunge/wear.

When I've got one or two things out of the way, I'll do a complete 3D texture and demonstrate how its done for Duke, but honestly, tuts for this sort of thing are all over the net. There are a load of links in the tuts and resources thread.

[Night Wolf]

something like this for spec?

[Night Wolf]

Anyway here are the tiles ... I've kept them at 512 x 512... since shrinking them results in some of the lines shifting of of shape... also the file size of each tile is tiny anyway.


#4130


#4131


#4132


#4133


#0293


#0363

[Night Wolf]

ill work on the spec map for broken later , im assuming ive done the spec map right since no one has commented ?

Anyway ... I've revised #0764 ... and made its resolution 1024 x 1024 , instead of the previous 512x 512

much better
#0764


edit: made middle concrete part darker

[Stabs]

redo the glass #503 with some cool spec stuff

[Tea Monster]

Good work on the spec for the monitor tiles. The only thing that I would do is to put a black band around the base of the curve of the monitor, where it meets the bezel. There is a big glint going on there that looks weird.

[0815Jack]

@ozz: #764 looks really better......dont forget about specular/normal

[Parkar]

ozz, on Jun 16 2010, 10:04 AM, said:

ill work on the spec map for broken later , im assuming ive done the spec map right since no one has commented ?

Anyway ... I've revised #0764 ... and made its resolution 1024 x 1024 , instead of the previous 512x 512

much better
#0764

That window should be a flat bright colour to give the illusion you have a window in front of the curtains. Also the window should be brighter than the concrete which could be made a lot darker. Remember the specular defines the strength and colour of highlights. Concrete has almost no specular highlights at all unless it's polished smooth. The glass on the other hand should give you a nice clear highlight.

Edit: Can't get to duke4.net from home for some reason last week or so. Can only access it from work. Any one else having this issue?

[MusicallyInspired]

I'd really love to see some of these textures with the various spec/normal maps in action in a video.

[Hendricks266]

Parkar, on Jun 16 2010, 10:05 AM, said:

Edit: Can't get to duke4.net from home for some reason last week or so. Can only access it from work. Any one else having this issue?

Sounds like a DNS issue. Try the IP addresses.

Pinging duke4.net [174.123.173.123] with 32 bytes of data:
Pinging forums.duke4.net [88.191.13.88] with 32 bytes of data:

[Night Wolf]

Tea Monster, on Jun 16 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

Good work on the spec for the monitor tiles. The only thing that I would do is to put a black band around the base of the curve of the monitor, where it meets the bezel. There is a big glint going on there that looks weird.

specthing.jpg

I noticed that too ...wast sure what to do with it till now ... ill fix that cheers

Parkar, on Jun 17 2010, 01:05 AM, said:

That window should be a flat bright colour to give the illusion you have a window in front of the curtains. Also the window should be brighter than the concrete which could be made a lot darker. Remember the specular defines the strength and colour of highlights. Concrete has almost no specular highlights at all unless it's polished smooth. The glass on the other hand should give you a nice clear highlight.

could you give me an example? or anyone for that matter .... Im not really sure how you would show an effect of glass over the curtains I thought spec would do that.


This is the glass with spec
(maps courtesy of gt1750)

[Gambini]

Is there still somebody packaging all this into hrp betas? I really want to take a look to all this new stuff in game but don´t feel like installing (nor know how) that tortoise svn thing just for it. These last times the HRP has grown a lot more than in a couple of years (at least in quality that is not the same than quantity), i think it should be cool to make another release.

[ReaperMan]

Gambini, on Jun 16 2010, 07:33 PM, said:

Is there still somebody packaging all this into hrp betas? I really want to take a look to all this new stuff in game but don´t feel like installing (nor know how) that tortoise svn thing just for it. These last times the HRP has grown a lot more than in a couple of years (at least in quality that is not the same than quantity), i think it should be cool to make another release.

I agree, we need an updated HRP, i want to see all the awesome work you guys have done on it.

[Plagman]

Is everything in the SVN? If so, I can put together an archive and host it. If not, Parkar or Roma Loom or someone else should probably push the completed stuff to svn before I do that.

[BuddhaMaster]

nice work ozz
I really like the style of your textures, because of their simplicity and clarity
Would you ever consider making a tutorial of some kind?
Or sharing a tip or two?

Quote

QUOTE (Parkar @ Jun 17 2010, 01:05 AM)
That window should be a flat bright colour to give the illusion you have a window in front of the curtains. Also the window should be brighter than the concrete which could be made a lot darker. Remember the specular defines the strength and colour of highlights. Concrete has almost no specular highlights at all unless it's polished smooth. The glass on the other hand should give you a nice clear highlight.

Thats not true. These windows were always black.
My suggestion is to add a stripe of reflection around the window, but not right at the edges, move it inside some pixels 16-32, then smooth everything towards edges (darken).
Just highlight the borders, similar to your crt monitor. But leave the lower edge slightly darker (the light will always come from above).

Give me your originals and I shall try

btw: Is there a pool of updated tiles somewhere?

[Danukem]

Parkar, on Jun 16 2010, 08:05 AM, said:

Edit: Can't get to duke4.net from home for some reason last week or so. Can only access it from work. Any one else having this issue?

Yes, several other people have reported being unable to access the site (e.g. Mikko Sandt).

[Hendricks266]

Plagman, on Jun 16 2010, 09:02 PM, said:

Is everything in the SVN? If so, I can put together an archive and host it. If not, Parkar or Roma Loom or someone else should probably push the completed stuff to svn before I do that.

1. It's not. Ozz, email Parkar and get SVN login info if you haven't already.
2. A lot of work needs to be done to restore Polymost compatibility.

[Night Wolf]

BuddhaMaster, on Jun 17 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

nice work ozz
I really like the style of your textures, because of their simplicity and clarity
Would you ever consider making a tutorial of some kind?
Or sharing a tip or two?

yeah sure ,... basically behind the detail is flat basic colours ...pretty much if I were to take out the detail layers it would look like a coloured height map...
for example #0764 without detail layers


This is how i start off my textures
its almost like a colourful normal map or height map, basic shapes lines and a bit of shadows
This way i can experiment with the right detailed pictures and overly them over the texture... experiment with transparency , maybe even overlay two textures over each other... it takes experimenting to look right.
I've found using real life pictures for detail has a much more realistic effect, a free texture site is good for this.... Though to make the textures seamless requires you to use "Offset" photoshop filter and then the clone tool
I also make my own details using the grain filter and a few other effects, but then just look photoshoped and don't look as realistic... you can however make your ones for metal which can look realitic, but things like concrete are more complicated.

edit: overlaying textures i'snt always enough , you maybe also need to paint in certain details by hand with the brush tool , for certain textures

[BuddhaMaster]

nice tut.

That idea with sort of a basic color map is indeed great.

What do you consider the most important aspect when using photos?


And how do you extract the proper colors, i.e. in your concrete-wall windows tile #0764
They all seem to match up perfectly
I often use gaussian blur to get a nice uniform example of the base color. Did you do that?
My biggest problem with colors is: If your using photoshop, The Luminosity blend mode takes over all structural elements (texture) but leaves color exactly. to do the exact opposite is rather difficult: First you need to overlay HUE, then SATURATION and maybe BRIGHTNESS.
How do you handle colors most common?


I'm also interested in these curtains, what type of effects did you use there?

[Night Wolf]

@ BuddhaMaster
Never blur the 8bit tile over the new tile your making ... have it by the side to look at , or even on a separate layer to trace the shape but never incorporate it into the final design.
also I select the main colours for the 8bit tile with the "eye dropper tool" and use them as the flat basic colours for the new tile

when overlaying the details I always desaturate them first , since the colour is already in the basic layers ive created

Regards to the curtains , for this one I decided to find a actual picture of curtains ... I did make my own for some of the previous building tiles (using the gradient tool and some other effects), but they just don't look anywhere near as good as real curtains,
for example my revisions of 0723 & 0725 have curtains i've created using photoshop , but they don't look very realistic so I might revise those curtains


..........
Moving on..

Here is the fixed spec map , and also the parallax map by Tea Monster

[Night Wolf]

@ Parkar
I made that middle concrete part of 0764 darker like you suggested ... I updated the link, so I didn't have to post it again

[BuddhaMaster]

A update on my tree, I had to learn Speedtree for doing this.
Now custom leaf & bark textures.
I tried hard to get the colors right:




recommendations welcomed

[Roma Loom]

@BuddhaMaster: How are you going to export the speedtree mesh into md3 format?

@Ooz: You should probably make glowmaps for your monitor sets

[Fox]

It's impressive how that tree has a modern game look but still match perfectly the classic one

Can you show the texture?



If you could try the other tree too

Sabal palm (sabal palmetto)