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EDuke32 2.0 and Polymer!  "talk about the wonders of EDuke32 and the new renderer"

User is offline   Gambini 

#3361

Thanks. The plan is to use a clean folder, because AFAIK anything in the eduke folder will override the grp´s content.
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User is online   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#3362

You are one hundred percent correct.
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User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#3363

View PostGambini, on 01 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Thanks. The plan is to use a clean folder, because AFAIK anything in the eduke folder will override the grp´s content.

AFAYSK some people will always install mods to a duke folder that contain con files and other various files screwing up your intentions even if you warn them well before to install to a clean install. :P
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#3364

Just tell them it's a stand alone game and NOT a mod.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3365

View PostCody, on 03 February 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

AFAYSK some people will always install mods to a duke folder that contain con files and other various files screwing up your intentions even if you warn them well before to install to a clean install. B)

They are going to copy the content of the CON files and paste it at the end of already existing CONs. :P

This post has been edited by Fox: 03 February 2013 - 01:05 PM

1

User is offline   Diaz 

#3366

Is there a r_usenewshading value that looks exactly the same as setting its value to 1 before changing that cvar's behavior?

I could swear my maps aren't looking as they did before. Most of my subtle ambient shading work is gone; some areas that should be in the dark are now quite visible. No matter what I set r_usenewshading to, it doesn't look as it did before.

I hope I'm not gonna have to re-do the shading in all the maps I had made so far because I'd rather trash them :P

This post has been edited by Diaz: 05 February 2013 - 09:48 AM

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User is offline   Plagman 

  • Former VP of Media Operations

#3367

Hopefully, yes; if there isn't, we can introduce a compatibility setting if needed. Since there have been many revisions, can you clarify which version you were using and combination of renderer / usenewshading / ambientlight or any other relevant settings?
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User is offline   Diaz 

#3368

I've been using the Polymer renderer, and this probably happens since the introduction of the new shading code in r3303. My values are r_shadescale 1.3 and r_ ambientlight 1.25.

No matter if I set r_usenewshading to 1, 2, or 3, things apear lighter than they should, and it gets worse the darker the area is. I can't seem to get it to look 100% like before by tweaking the values in r_usenewshading, r_shadescale and r_ambientlight.

This post has been edited by Diaz: 05 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#3369

View PostDiaz, on 05 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Is there a r_usenewshading value that looks exactly the same as setting its value to 1 before changing that cvar's behavior?

Yes, it is "1". The cvar's behavior wasn't changed, but a new mode "2" was introduced and made the default. Later, the default for r_shadescale was changed from 1.3 to 1.0. So, setting r_shadescale to 1.3 and r_usenewshading to 1 should give the pre-classic-fog-for-OpenGL look.

View PostDiaz, on 05 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I've been using the Polymer renderer, and this probably happens since the introduction of the new shading code in r3303. My values are r_shadescale 1.3 and r_ ambientlight 1.25.

No matter if I set r_usenewshading to 1, 2, or 3, things apear lighter than they should, and it gets worse the darker the area is. I can't seem to get it to look 100% like before by tweaking the values in r_usenewshading, r_shadescale and r_ambientlight.

I can't reproduce this under Mapster32: the "r_usenewshading.map" test map looks the same throughout r3300..r3303 and SVN HEAD. By the way, r_ambientlight is a game-side variable and affects the global visibility, like DEFAULTVISIBILITY from CON (only reciprocally instead of multiplicatively). Maybe you were running mode 0 before? C programmers tend to start counting at zero, so the modes are
0 - old Polymost GL_EXP2 fog,
1 - the GL_EXP2 mode with tweaked constants that I first thought was an improvement, but was later shown to be deficient too and
2 - the new GL_LINEAR mode emulating the classic look.
2

User is offline   Diaz 

#3370

Alright, that worked. The problem was that I didn't notice changing r_shadescale doesn't take full effect until the map is restarted. Changing it to 1.3 from the start did the trick :P
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#3371

You can alternatively use r_restartvid to quickly and easy restart the renderer without losing anything.
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User is offline   Diaz 

#3372

Yup, right. I just didn't notice r_shadescale was one of those commands requiring a map/vid restart; thought it had immediate effect, as the lighting in some objects seemed to change instantly when tweaking its value :P
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3373

Is it even remotely possible to make a model texture "panning"?
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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#3374

View PostDiaz, on 05 February 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Yup, right. I just didn't notice r_shadescale was one of those commands requiring a map/vid restart; thought it had immediate effect, as the lighting in some objects seemed to change instantly when tweaking its value :P


Hmmm, it seems to work fine here without a map/vid restart.
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User is offline   Diaz 

#3375

With the Polymer renderer?

No big deal anyways, I just set the default to 1.3 and all is well :P
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User is offline   Alan 

  • Hellspawn

#3376

View PostTerminX, on 31 January 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

When it's done, CON code is only going to run on the server anyway (except for local display events and stuff like that). Mods will really need to be specifically designed for the new system (or heavily adapted, at least).


Have another tab in the startup window that asks for a server to connect to. When connected, a separate folder is set up where the client downloads the modified resources from the server.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#3377

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 06 February 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

Hmmm, it seems to work fine here without a map/vid restart.


For me it does need the restartvid. That was using polymer though. I think sprites seems to change instantly, however it's the map geometry that requires the restartvid.


View PostAlan, on 06 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Have another tab in the startup window that asks for a server to connect to. When connected, a separate folder is set up where the client downloads the modified resources from the server.


I don't think you'll really have to download anything. At least with map files, when the host starts up a map, you can join it even though you don't have the map yourself. Although I'm not really sure about TCs, but then again you should really have the TC anyway before you start an online game for the actual TC.
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User is offline   Alan 

  • Hellspawn

#3378

You have to cache the files anyway. If you join a server with a map you don't have, you have to download the map to your cache.
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User is offline   Plagman 

  • Former VP of Media Operations

#3379

View PostFox, on 06 February 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

Is it even remotely possible to make a model texture "panning"?


Not really, no. It would need to be an engine feature and would require the model to be UV-mapped a very specific way to work. What do you want to do?
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3380

I want to make the explosions model from Duke 64 exactly like they are in the ROM. Right now I am making them spin, but on reality it's just the texture that moves.

It would solve the problem if the spriteext x or y panning worked for the model textures. And it doesn't need to be a detailed effect, simply a "flat panning" of the texture.

I could reproduce the effect by having a set of multiple texture with a 1-px offset from each other, but that would be a ugly hack and would suck.

This post has been edited by Fox: 06 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3381

Phew, I am facing some trouble with events called multiple times. First of all, the events are run is reverse order, for example:

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
    spritepal 21
endevent

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
  ifspawnedby RECON
    spritepal 22
endevent


The intended effect would be that Pig Cops would have palette 21, except those spawned by a Recon Patrol Vehicle which would have palette 22. However this is not what actually happens, instead all Pig Cops would have palette 21 because the first onevent is called later.

The second problem is with the break command, which run across all the multiple onevent. Example below:

  onevent EVENT_SPAWN
    ifactor PIGCOP
      spritepal 21
  endevent

  onevent EVENT_SPAWN
    ifactor PIGCOP
      break
  endevent


This sample code is meant to make all Pig Cops have palette 21, but nothing will happen because of the break command in the second onevent. And I don't think this should happen, since when used in a state the break command only affects the code of the state.
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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#3382

View PostFox, on 06 February 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Phew, I am facing some trouble with events called multiple times. First of all, the events are run is reverse order

That can be explained by the way they're implemented. When an endevent is encountered but the event was already defined previsouly, a JUMP instruction that points to the beginning of the old one is placed at the end of the new one. So yes, events defined later run earlier. [NOTE: jump shouldn't really be used by user CON code.]

Quote

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
    spritepal 21
endevent

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
  ifspawnedby RECON
    spritepal 22
endevent


The intended effect would be that Pig Cops would have palette 21, except those spawned by a Recon Patrol Vehicle which would have palette 22. However this is not what actually happens, instead all Pig Cops would have palette 21 because the first onevent is called later.

That code seems pretty artificial to me, and just having that logic in one "ifactor PIGCOP" branch in EVENT_SPAWN is much more readable IMO. The way I see it, event chaining is mainly a mechanism to allow modules to define independent behavior for a particular event. For example because each module needs EVENT_SPAWN for their custom actors.

Quote

The second problem is with the break command, which run across all the multiple onevent. Example below:

  onevent EVENT_SPAWN
    ifactor PIGCOP
      spritepal 21
  endevent

  onevent EVENT_SPAWN
    ifactor PIGCOP
      break
  endevent


This sample code is meant to make all Pig Cops have palette 21, but nothing will happen because of the break command in the second onevent. And I don't think this should happen, since when used in a state the break command only affects the code of the state.

Now this is interesting, and it can also be explained by what was said above: the two EVENT_SPAWN parts effectively become one block of code. I kind of agree that the expected behavior for break is "jump to end of event" (i.e. what is called "return" in most imperative programming languages). Shall we say that for now, "if a break is used inside an event that is multiply defined, the behavior is undefined"? :P (That is, one should not rely on it stay the same in the future.)
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3383

View PostHelixhorned, on 07 February 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

[NOTE: jump shouldn't really be used by user CON code.]

What do you mean? That I should not be opening an event multiple times, or that it's a sort of a mistake of Eduke?

View PostHelixhorned, on 07 February 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

That code seems pretty artificial to me

View PostFox, on 06 February 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

for example:

You guessed it. But believe me, I have some pratical use for an event being opened multiple times.

Since the code is normally written from the top to the bottom, I think it's just natural to have the first event called first.

View PostHelixhorned, on 07 February 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

Shall we say that for now, "if a break is used inside an event that is multiply defined, the behavior is undefined"? :P (That is, one should not rely on it stay the same in the future.)

Ehh, since it is a basic function (like "else") can't it be fixed?

This post has been edited by Fox: 07 February 2013 - 04:44 AM

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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#3384

View PostFox, on 07 February 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

What do you mean? That I should not be opening an event multiple times, or that it's a sort of a mistake of Eduke?

I mean that jump should be avoided when writing CON code. There are some legitimate uses for what other languages call "goto" when jumping to error handling code forwards, but loops (=backward jumps) should be written using the available looping constructs: whilevarn or whilevarvarn.

Quote

Ehh, since it is a basic function (like "else") can't it be fixed?

Not immediately.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3385

Well, I never really ever used the command jump, so that is not a problem for me.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#3386

I'm not really sure how it's at all natural to not have your same actor called from multiple instances of an event?

I mean, for readability as well as the general logic of your code it doesn't seem to make much sense and it can potentially be a lot more lines of code depending on what you need done.
onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
    spritepal 21
endevent

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
  ifspawnedby RECON
    spritepal 22
endevent



vs

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
    ifactor PIGCOP
    {
        ifspawnedby RECON
            spritepal 22
        else
            spritepal 21
    }
endevent


The above happens to be 9 lines just as before, but for each further EVENT_SPAWN you'll need an additional 3 lines (onevent EVENT_SPAWN - ifactor PIGCOP - endevent) along with whatever other if conditions you put in place. And all for code that logically should be happening before the actor is executing the rest of its code so it all fits together anyway.
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User is offline   Plagman 

  • Former VP of Media Operations

#3387

Keep in mind multiple event definitions are pretty important for stuff like mutators. We can't have stuff break or act weird just because you append a small CON mod using break in an event; it shouldn't need to have any knowledge of who else defined the event and what instructions they used inside it. If this is hard to get right, then it should just be an error to call break from any event, and I suspect that would be unacceptable.
1

User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3388

View PostMblackwell, on 07 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I'm not really sure how it's at all natural to not have your same actor called from multiple instances of an event?

I mean, for readability as well as the general logic of your code it doesn't seem to make much sense and it can potentially be a lot more lines of code depending on what you need done.
onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
    spritepal 21
endevent

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
  ifactor PIGCOP
  ifspawnedby RECON
    spritepal 22
endevent



vs

onevent EVENT_SPAWN
    ifactor PIGCOP
    {
        ifspawnedby RECON
            spritepal 22
        else
            spritepal 21
    }
endevent


The above happens to be 9 lines just as before, but for each further EVENT_SPAWN you'll need an additional 3 lines (onevent EVENT_SPAWN - ifactor PIGCOP - endevent) along with whatever other if conditions you put in place. And all for code that logically should be happening before the actor is executing the rest of its code so it all fits together anyway.

It is just an example. It doesn't need to make sense.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#3389

View PostPlagman, on 07 February 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Keep in mind multiple event definitions are pretty important for stuff like mutators. We can't have stuff break or act weird just because you append a small CON mod using break in an event; it shouldn't need to have any knowledge of who else defined the event and what instructions they used inside it. If this is hard to get right, then it should just be an error to call break from any event, and I suspect that would be unacceptable.



Break usually means "do not execute the following code block(s)". For the given example there's no real context other than perhaps order of operations. Unless we can specify that there's really not going to be a good way to do non-additive mutators.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • Buy Mage's Initiation!

#3390

Got a problem with polymer on my laptop. My laptop is a decent build with a NVidia GeForce GT 550M 2GB video device. Polymer works fine and smoothly except for spotlights. In Mapster and ingame the spotlights don't show up at all. If I do 'restartvid' in the console the spotlight will appear for a splitsecond before disappearing again (also, I've noticed that it does not cast a shadow). I'm not sure if this was ever a problem before or not as I don't remember if I ever saw an ingame spotlight on my laptop or not. I guess I just assumed it would work. I'm already running the latest driver so that's not the problem. Any suggestions? I've tried the latest snapshot as well as the 64-bit build that was posted a little while back. No change. I'm not sure why it's not working as it's a decent NVidia card and NVidia is supposed to the best compatible device for polymer, right?

The eduke32.log file displays these lines of messages every time I typed in 'restartvid' if it means anything:

Quote

Initializing Polymer subsystem...
PR : Board loaded.
PR : FBO #1 initialization failed.
PR : FBO #2 initialization failed.
PR : FBO #3 initialization failed.
PR : FBO #4 initialization failed.
PR : FBO #5 initialization failed.
PR : Initialization complete in 180 ms.


This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 09 February 2013 - 08:43 PM

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