[Tea Monster]

Or just have a big warning under the graphics options menu. Alternately, you could have a button on the loading panel that says "If you are an ATI user and you are having problems then click here" and it will take them to an Amazon web page for their country where they can buy a real graphics card.

[Master Fibbles]

Or it could set the settings for the filter...just to be non-partial.

[Gambini]

 Tea Monster, on Feb 9 2011, 09:31 PM, said:

Alternately, you could have a button on the loading panel that says "If you are an ATI user and you are having problems then click here" and it will take them to an Amazon web page for their country where they can buy a real graphics card.

lol

[Hendricks266]

How about another whitelist/blacklist for this bug?

[Tea Monster]

Other OS soft must have had this problem. The only 'coding' Ive done is HTML and a bit of Javascript, but wouldn't it be possible to check out other OS progs (Darkplaces, various Doom ports, Cube engine) and see how they solved this problem?

[RPD Guy]

to solve the problem with ATI, simply buy one geforce! and burn your old ATI!
kkkkkk

[Stabs]

Hey in mapster, rendermode 4 i can be looking at a pretty heavy area and get 15 fps, and simply holding down right click will make the fps almost double, there is something to look into here

[Plagman]

Probably because the picking code doesn't run in that case.

[Mikko]

 Tea Monster, on Feb 10 2011, 02:31 AM, said:

Or just have a big warning under the graphics options menu. Alternately, you could have a button on the loading panel that says "If you are an ATI user and you are having problems then click here" and it will take them to an Amazon web page for their country where they can buy a real graphics card.

Right, because it's ATI's fault that a 15-year-old game runs like shit while their cards have no problems running modern games?

[Plagman]

Performance isn't what's being discussed here and way off-topic since it's pretty much on par with both vendors. The issue is trying to render characters and getting a white box instead. That only happens with the ATI driver.

[Tea Monster]

 Mikko_Sandt, on Feb 11 2011, 04:30 PM, said:

Right, because it's ATI's fault that a 15-year-old game runs like shit while their cards have no problems running modern games?

It IS ATI's fault that nobody at the company, after all these years, can write a decent OpenGL driver for their own cards. A lot of modern applications (Maya and Blender for example) use OpenGL for their viewport displays.

[Awesomebob]

Long time no see

Did the ATi bug with crashing under polymer get fixed? Their end or yours? Cause I just played through the first episode with out a hitch!

[Mikko]

 Tea Monster, on Feb 12 2011, 11:24 AM, said:

It IS ATI's fault that nobody at the company, after all these years, can write a decent OpenGL driver for their own cards. A lot of modern applications (Maya and Blender for example) use OpenGL for their viewport displays.

And your original (implicit) suggestion was that one should purchase a GPU based on how well it handles a 15-year-old game.

[Tea Monster]

 Mikko_Sandt, on Feb 12 2011, 05:39 PM, said:

And your original (implicit) suggestion was that one should purchase a GPU based on how well it handles a 15-year-old game.

No, my suggestion is that you buy a card where the company gives a crap about their product.

[Hendricks266]

 Mikko_Sandt, on Feb 12 2011, 06:39 PM, said:

And your original (implicit) suggestion was that one should purchase a GPU based on how well it handles a 15-year-old game.

...and anything running OpenGL rather than the newest, shiniest money-making games.

[MusicallyInspired]

It's strange, I keep running into people who have had problems with NVidia cards and are switching to ATI and I'm like "how can NVidia's problems be worse than ATI's???" I don't get it.

[Plagman]

Don't take Mikko's troll bait and turn this into a general NVIDIA vs. AMD argument, as this is obviously way beyond the scope of this discussion. In this case there's one particular issue that lots people are having, and that's the bug causing the white boxes. I'm all for solving this issue, but I don't know how. I need some time with a setup where the issue reproduces to be able to pinpoint exactly what's going wrong and work around it. All other options would have a negative impact on users that would otherwise not have been affected by the issue in the first place, and that would suck.

[Scott_AW]

I thinks it mostly a driver issue, and I don't think its limited to either ATI or Nvidia at this point. If possible you should use older OpenGL libraries to maximize compatibility as that seems to be the main issue. Card not properly supporting the latest openGL.

Some games may get around this because they use Directx instead, but of course that heavily limits portability.

Do a few google searches and you'll find that both ATI and Nvidia have their fair share of opengl problems.

http://www.glbasic.c...hp?topic=4916.0

Heres a thread I was conversing on where we experienced some Opengl issues, I think it was resolved because intel updated the drivers, which now I"m going to have to check out myself and see if it allows eduke polymer to run on my netbook. However I don't think it will because for some reason they crippled the chip for windows, yet it supposedly can support Opengl higher than 1.4 in a linux system? Don't know whats up with that.

I believe the issue is drivers and OpenGL 2.0?

[Plagman]

It's not a support problem, This uses features that are reported as supported by the driver, and known supported by the hardware at hand. It's just doing something that the driver doesn't like, but figuring out what exactly needs some trial-and-error with an affected system.

[Roma Loom]

I don't have problems with ATI in Doom3 or HL2 for instance but missing shadows in polymer after driver upgrade just makes me think ATI is a huge fail in terms of drivers. Also restartvid in polymer with ATI makes the world geometry fucked up while NVidia works flowlessly with that.

[Mikko]

 Plagman, on Feb 13 2011, 07:20 AM, said:

Don't take Mikko's troll bait and turn this into a general NVIDIA vs. AMD argument,

So, one-sided ATI bashing is generally accepted but when someone points out the idiocy (and obvious bias) of some of the arguments you call that trolling?

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes.

[Tea Monster]

 Mikko_Sandt, on Feb 13 2011, 06:57 AM, said:

So, one-sided ATI bashing is generally accepted but when someone points out the idiocy (and obvious bias) of some of the arguments you call that trolling?

If you present a valid counter argument that's fine. But if you issue trollish statements that seem intended more to incite than to persuade, then damn straight.

[Scott_AW]

ATI does have a history though.

[Mblackwell]

Sadly for Mikko he doesn't understand that graphics API's have standard protocols that drivers and cards are supposed to support. There's volumes of documentation so as long as a user sticks to the standards and checks against the driver to see that the card supports that graphics stack before calling a function you shouldn't get any issues. In this case the driver is telling him that the card should be able to do everything he's attempting without a hitch.

It also escapes him that Polymer is a new engine, not a 15 year old one. Additionally most commercial modern games get support directly from card/driver manufacturers, so they have more test hardware and if a driver bug is discovered it can be reported back and fixed and/or the manufacturer can inform the developer of workarounds.

[Hank]

Plagman, on Feb 13 2011, 12:20 AM, said:

I'm all for solving this issue, but I don't know how. I need some time with a setup where the issue reproduces to be able to pinpoint exactly what's going wrong and work around it.

Then should that not be a new thread? Polymer + White Squares. Honestly. I'm a n00b here, sifting through 70 pages and collecting valid data is hard already, anyone after me will face an impossible task.
Also, since Polymer is a new engine using OpenGL, does anyone plan to contact AMD? It's a simple question, before 10.4 drivers; the games worked without white squares, after 10.5 drivers; the game shows white squares, the renderer is using OpengGL 2. Please advice what further info you require to solve our dilemma, code or whatever. Again just a suggestion. The worst thing is that AMD does not respond, but if they do - hey Bob's Your Uncle!

[Mikko]

Tea Monster, on Feb 13 2011, 06:43 PM, said:

If you present a valid counter argument that's fine. But if you issue trollish statements that seem intended more to incite than to persuade, then damn straight.

You made no valid arguments in the first place. You started trolling by slipping in an ATI-bashing comment. The idiot choir then joined you.

I had no intention of starting an NVIDIA vs. ATI war as I have used both GPUs and have nothing to complain about either one of them. Tea Monster and other trolls instead took the opportunity to bash ATI by making an utterly silly and simplistic suggestion.

Mblackwell said:

It also escapes him that Polymer is a new engine, not a 15 year old one.

Really? Several people suggested that to get around the "white boxes" issue is to get a better GPU. No references were made to other games; it was implied that people ought to purchase a new GPU in order to get the most out of a 15-year-old game. I didn't argue that ATI is better than NVIDIA or that ATI handles old games better. You're fighting strawmen, which usually results from poor reading comprehension.

[Hendricks266]

Hank, on Feb 13 2011, 12:27 PM, said:

Then should that not be a new thread? Polymer + White Squares. Honestly. I'm a n00b here, sifting through 70 pages and collecting valid data is hard already, anyone after me will face an impossible task.

There's a sticky thread for it in the problems forum.

Mikko_Sandt, on Feb 13 2011, 12:38 PM, said:

Several people suggested that to get around the "white boxes" issue is to get a better GPU. No references were made to other games; it was implied that people ought to purchase a new GPU in order to get the most out of a 15-year-old game.

I doubt that many of those suggestions were completely serious. Either way, there's no reason to be arguing back and forth about this. I've taken your points, Mikko, and I certainly hope others have. Plagman's tested ATI cards before and implemented workaround. Hopefully this could be fixed a similar way.

[Hank]

Hendricks266, on Feb 13 2011, 02:04 PM, said:

There's a sticky thread for it in the problems forum.

No shit. But it is not discussesd there.

b.t.w. I was refering to this post, to make a separate one.

Plagman, on Feb 11 2011, 07:48 PM, said:

Performance isn't what's being discussed here and way off-topic since it's pretty much on par with both vendors. The issue is trying to render characters and getting a white box instead. That only happens with the ATI driver.

As you can see the topic is already missed. Anyways, carry on.

[Plagman]

Mikko_Sandt, on Feb 13 2011, 05:57 AM, said:

So, one-sided ATI bashing is generally accepted but when someone points out the idiocy (and obvious bias) of some of the arguments you call that trolling?

The "arguments" were mostly humorous until you showed up. This was also off-topic and not helping to resolve the issue at hand, but much less annoying. Of course now that everyone walked right into your bullshit, the thread is ruined for good.

I find it awesome that everyone is so glad to jump in and make it sound like Polymer ATI users are constantly rounded up and sent to extermination camps, yet despite my various attempts no-one has been willing to provide me with a remote shell to an affected system so that I could actually fix the problems. But sure, maybe enough whining will make the problems vanish on their own.

Now, PLEASE only reply to this thread if you have constructive stuff to say about EDuke32, for this is what the thread is about. Feel free to open another dedicated, constructive thread about fixing the particular issues you're having if that's what you want to do. Stop doing this, though.