EDuke32 2.0 and Polymer!

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EDuke32 2.0 and Polymer! "talk about the wonders of EDuke32 and the new renderer"

#1938 Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:19 AM

High Treason, on Dec 1 2010, 06:13 PM, said:

You have to tick the Polymer box when EDuke32 first starts, though if your system is not powerful enough it will switch itself back to Polymost when the game starts up.

I my good! It's true! Thank you!

#1939 Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:22 AM

Most effects only work with patched maps, sprites/models, and textures. You will need the PolymerHRP.
But you can tell if polymer works for you without that:

Attached thumbnail(s)

#1940 Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:04 PM

I'm on Windows 7 64. If I tab-out and tab-back to mapster, it crashes.

#1941 Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:18 PM

ive mentioned this but they think iam crazy and talking shit

ctrl + p is your freind here

#1942 Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:44 PM

Micky C, on Nov 30 2010, 10:46 PM, said:

Is it just me or are people unable to edit anything in this mode? Although I'm aware that this feature is still in its early stages and has much potential for the future as it becomes more complex.

Yes, for the time being various editing keys are disabled in side-view mode. The problem here is that it would be potentially confusing since you need to map a (x, y) mouse position to a position in 3D space. I intend to disambiguate the controls by having the middle mouse button have a special function: for example, when dragging a sprite, without MMB it's drag in BUILD (x, y) plane and with MMB, in the plane that corresponds to the screen.

Piano Man, on Dec 1 2010, 06:07 AM, said:

Interesting question... Now that you can start looking at it in different angles in 2D mode... Is it possible to start editing and building sectors along a different axis for once??? Instead of building sectors on one axis???

Would it be possible to start building truly 3D maps???

I'm not sure what you mean by "building on different axes" but there are no new inherent capabilities -- all you can do with the new mode you also could do before. The main goal is simply convenience for architecture that spreads wide in the z direction, for spritework, and the like.

Tea Monster, on Dec 1 2010, 09:04 PM, said:

I'm on Windows 7 64. If I tab-out and tab-back to mapster, it crashes.

A crashlog would help :blink:

.

edit: Shift-A/Z tilts the side-view up and down. Forgot to mention that in the commit message...

Roma Loom

Loomsday Device

#1943 Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:48 PM

Alt-tabbing mapster32 or windowed eduke32 always make them go into infinite not-responding for me, and it was like for ages.
Also few vidrestarts make mapster and eduke crash which is really annoying since I need to vidrestart to compare classic and polymer textures. The crashlog of eduke32_debug executable is something like this:

Failed to init bfd from (C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll)
0x1db58eea : C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll : DrvPresentBuffers 
Failed to init bfd from (C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll)
0x1e00a3c7 : C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll : atiPS 
0x5661ed : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32\build/src/
polymer.c (775) : in function (polymer_loadboard) 
0x565d29 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32\build/src/
polymer.c (620) : in function (polymer_init) 
0x5182a6 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32\build/src/
engine.c (8260) : in function (setgamemode) 
0x4d9c53 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32/source/osdcmds.
c (364) : in function (osdcmd_restartvid) 
0x54ef21 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32\build/src/
osd.c (1776) : in function (OSD_Dispatch) 
0x54ebbd : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32\build/src/
osd.c (1619) : in function (OSD_DispatchQueued) 
0x426452 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32/source/game.c (10017) : in function (app_main) 
0x55df94 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : Z:\var\www\synthesis\eduke32\eduke32\build/src/
winlayer.c (494) : in function (WinMain@16) 
0x5b5a16 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : main.c 
0x4010db : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : crt1.c 
0x401158 : D:\Games\Duke3D Polymer\eduke32.debug.exe : crt1.c 
Failed to init bfd from (C:\Windows\syswow64\kernel32.dll)
0x75d43677 : C:\Windows\syswow64\kernel32.dll : BaseThreadInitThunk 
Failed to init bfd from (C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll)
0x77259d72 : C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll : RtlInitializeExceptionChain 
Failed to init bfd from (C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll)
0x77259d45 : C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll : RtlInitializeExceptionChain

This post has been edited by Roma Loom: 01 December 2010 - 12:53 PM

Plagman

Former VP of Media Operations

#1944 Posted 01 December 2010 - 02:23 PM

It looks like it's crashing inside the ATI GL driver?

herejex

#1945 Posted 01 December 2010 - 02:32 PM

LeoD, on Dec 1 2010, 06:22 PM, said:

Most effects only work with patched maps, sprites/models, and textures. You will need the PolymerHRP.
But you can tell if polymer works for you without that:

I have been working with it a lot of time (I mean, high resolution pack).

Unfortunatelly, the game crashes when the process of the textures is terminated. I can see a first screen of the game inside the map, then it crashes.
Here is one of the logs:

Quote

...
[a lot of "Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!" errors]...
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/smallfont/3134_21.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/smallfont/3134_11.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/smallfont/3134_23.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/smallfont/3134.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Cache time: 10564ms
Caching "highres/sprites/build/0001.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/sprites/build/0002.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/sprites/build/0003.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/sprites/build/0004.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
E1L8: USER MAP
Fatal Signal caught: SIGSEGV. Bailing out.

7767: 3944 ifp 128 148994448
7770: 3945 action 148989084
7772: 3946 else 148994476
7774: 3947 ifp 32 148994476
7777: 3948 action 148989124
7779: 3949 else 148994504
7781: 3950 ifp 8 148994504
7784: 3951 action 148989164
7786: 31337 }
7787: 3953 enda 30 0 0 0
7792: 3960 ifcount 48 148994544
7795: 3961 resetcount
7796: 3962 else 148994584
7798: 31337 {
7799: 3964 ifcount 32 148994580
7802: 3965 sizeto 32 32
7805: 31337 }
7806: 3978 ifhitweapon
current actor: 9 (1405)
g_errorLineNum: 3953, g_tw: 4

Wrote eduke32.cfg
Wrote settings.cfg
Syncing memcache to texcache
Uninitializing DirectDraw...

Here is my old friend "segmentation fault"...
Could be a hardware problem? I mean, my computer is not able to handle polymer... :blink:

Thanks!

Plagman

Former VP of Media Operations

#1946 Posted 01 December 2010 - 02:34 PM

Use the latest build from there, reproduce the crash with the eduke32.debug.exe, and attach the generated eduke32.crashlog.

http://dukeworld.duk...ke32/synthesis/

Roma Loom

Loomsday Device

#1947 Posted 01 December 2010 - 02:50 PM

Plagman, on Dec 2 2010, 12:23 AM, said:

It looks like it's crashing inside the ATI GL driver?

I'm pretty sure same thing happens at the office on GF9600GT, but I will check this out soon to be sure. Also I've re-played doom3 recently in windowed mode, alt-tabbing here and there and everything was ok.

MusicallyInspired

The Sarien Encounter

#1948 Posted 01 December 2010 - 04:19 PM

So how do you activate orthogonal view mode?

EDIT: n/m, how can you change angles?

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 01 December 2010 - 04:25 PM

bullerbullerseven

#1949 Posted 01 December 2010 - 04:54 PM

MusicallyInspired, on Dec 2 2010, 01:19 AM, said:

So how do you activate orthogonal view mode?

EDIT: n/m, how can you change angles?

F3

edit... press w. that looks really good!!

OK this is sick. these few minutes i have been editing my mountain map. ive always wanted the walls to be perfectly sloped. but without 3d editing i did not have the possibility. but with this ive already fixed it so it looks decent o.O

This post has been edited by Jhect: 01 December 2010 - 05:22 PM

DavoX

Honored Donor

#1950 Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:25 PM

I think it's "Q"

bullerbullerseven

#1951 Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:38 PM

yea its both q ans w

Mike Norvak

Music Producer

#1952 Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:42 PM

Double tap F3, to see the orthogonal mode. Then "Q" and "W" will move the "camera" position...

bullerbullerseven

#1953 Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:44 PM

double tap?

Mike Norvak

Music Producer

#1954 Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:50 PM

Jhect, on Dec 1 2010, 07:44 PM, said:

double tap?

I mean u need to press F3 two times, to change beetween normal 2d mode and orthogonal...

-------------------------------------------------------------

BTW it´s possible to move the walls in this mode, right click to see what we are selecting:

and then hold right click to move the point...

This post has been edited by Norvak: 01 December 2010 - 05:53 PM

bullerbullerseven

#1955 Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:56 PM

yea but i dont have to double tap it xD the curser/pointer you are moving are very annoying. its so hard to find the real wall you are pointing at, if you know what i mean. the yellow X on your picture.

and maybe some time it will be possible to drag the vertics instead of the walls only? i mean the ceiling vertic or floor vertic if you know what i mean? that would give some great opportunities!

This post has been edited by Jhect: 01 December 2010 - 05:58 PM

Micky C

Honored Donor

#1956 Posted 01 December 2010 - 08:57 PM

The ability to view the map depends as we all know on the position of the camera, which is limited to the x-y plane on the grid square. This means that at some angles when sections of the map appear outside the grid, you can't have a close look at it.

Likewise, if you went purely side on, the camera can't be moved up and down, and it would be impossible to have a close up side on look at any part of the map which doesn't lie on or near the same plane as the grid itself at z coord 0. I.e I can't look at the main part of my map in the attached image.

Oh and Norvak's right, vertices can be moved, but it's the most awkward thing ever. I guess I shouldn't complain until Helixhorned has had more of a chance to work on the controls like he said.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 01 December 2010 - 08:58 PM

djdori11

#1957 Posted 02 December 2010 - 01:46 AM

the problems i have with lastest builds and polymer hrp:
1.this problem:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2189/ed...20123041814.jpg
2.the game crashing randomly.
3.the game slow on my nice computer.
4.all other ati card problems (only liner and nearest textures filters work etc..)

when you will fix it? i really want to finsih the game with polymer hrp but this problems really annoy me.. (especialy the crashing problem) so.. yeah.. plz try to fix this problems and most important the crashing problem! thanks!

Micky C

Honored Donor

#1958 Posted 02 December 2010 - 03:46 AM

Answers:
1. That's known about, they're working on it. If you looked around you'd have known other people had posted about it.
2, 3, 4. ATI cards don't do well with openGL like what Duke uses. Plagman (eduke32 developer) has sent in bug reports to the official driver engineering team at ATI so it's up to them to do the rest. If you want to be more assured that the game will run smoother, get an nVidia.

Ok maybe points 2 and 3 were exaggerated somewhat against ATI. It helps if you post up your eduke32.log file which is created in the same folder as eduke32.exe after every game, so if it crashes, post up the log.
Oh yeah and as of this typing, polymer (the new 32 bit openGL renderer) is unoptimized and not even finished. It runs slow even on moderately decent computers, slower than you'd think at least. So even if you have a 'nice' computer you need a "nice" computer.

djdori11

#1959 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:04 AM

ok i played eduke32.debug until the game crashed and here is a log:

EDuke32 2.0.0devel 20100727
Using C:/Users/Dor/Desktop/eduke32_win32_20101201-1731/ for game data
Windows 7 (build 6.1.7600) 
Initializing DirectDraw...
Searching for game data...
Using C:/Users/Dor/Desktop/eduke32_win32_20101201-1731/DukePlus/ for game data
Using 'duke3d.grp' as main game data file.
Using file 'autoload/duke3d_sc55.zip' as game data.
Using file 'autoload/polymer_hrp162.zip' as game data.
Using file 'autoload/polymer_mhk.zip' as game data.
Compiling: EDUKE.CON (36 bytes)
Including: DukePlus/dpcons/DUKEPLUS.CON (410671 bytes)
Using DEF file: dukeplus.def.
Wrote eduke32.cfg
Wrote settings.cfg
Using config file 'DukePlus/dp.cfg'.
Including: DEFS.CON (35992 bytes)
Including: USER.CON (45482 bytes)
Including: DukePlus/dpcons/DEFSPLUS.CON (54304 bytes)
Including: DukePlus/dpcons/USERPLUS.CON (58072 bytes)
Including: DukePlus/dpcons/LIGHTS.CON (26026 bytes)
DukePlus/dpcons/LIGHTS.CON: In state `paltoRGB':
DukePlus/dpcons/LIGHTS.CON:839: warning: duplicate case ignored.
Including: DukePlus/dukebike/DUKEBIKE.CON (88071 bytes)
Including: DukePlus/dpcons/HUDPLUS.CON (67064 bytes)
Including: DukePlus/dpcons/PLAYERPLUS.CON (125370 bytes)
Including: DukePlus/dpcons/MONSTERPLUS.CON (230388 bytes)
Found 1 warning(s), 0 error(s).
Resizing code buffer to 125726*4 bytes
Script compiled in 311ms, 125718*4b, version 1.4+
3011/11264 labels, 749/2048 variables
307 quotes, 46 strings, 40 events, 428 actors
Initialized 24.0M cache
Loading 'dukeplus.def'
warning: defined hightile replacement for empty tile 9000. Maybe some tiles???.art are not loaded?
warning: defined hightile replacement for empty tile 9001.
Definitions file 'dukeplus.def' loaded.
RTS file DUKE.RTS was not found
Initializing OSD...
Initializing DirectInput...
  - Enumerating attached game controllers
  - No game controllers found
Uninitializing DirectInput...
Executing "DukePlus/dp_settings.cfg"
Disabling desktop composition...
Setting video mode 1280x1024 (32-bit fullscreen)
Enabling ATI FBO color attachment workaround.
OpenGL Information:
 Version:  4.0.10317 Compatibility Profile Context
 Vendor:   ATI Technologies Inc.
 Renderer: ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series
gltexinvalidateall()
gltexinvalidate8()
Cache contains 47476 bytes of garbage data
Initializing Polymer subsystem...
PR : Initialization complete.
Initializing music...
Initializing sound...
gltexinvalidateall()
gltexinvalidate8()
Caching "highres/screen/menu/2503.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2953.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2944.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2962.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2946.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2940.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2952.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2954.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2955.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2959.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2948.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2958.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2951.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2943.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2947.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2942.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2957.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2956.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2960.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/menu/2813.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/menu/2817.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/menu/2816.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/3002.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2964.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2941.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2950.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2961.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/2945.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
Caching "highres/screen/fonts/redfont/3022.png"
Error: glGetTexLevelParameteriv returned GL_FALSE!
PR : Board loaded.
Loaded map hack file '/E1L1.mhk'

(the rest here)
oh and that crash is like the game freeze and than i do ctrl+alt+del and i have "eduke stopped working"..

This post has been edited by Mblackwell: 07 December 2010 - 08:41 PM

Roma Loom

Loomsday Device

#1960 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:17 AM

djdori11
Not that log. You need to post the content of eduke32.crashlog

and please wrap it into "code" tags, I've just broke my mouse wheel while scrolling through you post

This post has been edited by Roma Loom: 02 December 2010 - 04:19 AM

Micky C

Honored Donor

#1961 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:20 AM

Edit: damn too late, you can still go by my instructions which are probably clearer, and try the rest of my advice as well, it works for some people.

Wow, can you like edit that post. Choose 'use full editor' then on the left there are a bunch of options including the use of a 'codebox'. Can you cut the log and paste it into the codebox? That way it won't make the thread 100 times longer than it should be.

While I'm here I might as well throw in my two cents: find the textures and textures.cache files and delete them. Start the game, go into options and switch off the 'on disk texture cache' in renderer setup in video options. Make sure it's off and not just compressed. Finally, always make sure you have the latest eduke32 which can be found at the top of this page: http://dukeworld.duk...ke32/synthesis/

Happy Duking :blink:

This post has been edited by Micky C: 02 December 2010 - 04:22 AM

djdori11

#1962 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:23 AM

ok i changed it to "code" tags and here is the .crashlog:

Failed to init bfd from (C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll)
0x69aefcec : C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll : DrvPresentBuffers 
Failed to init bfd from (C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll)
0x690cc43d : C:\Windows\system32\atioglxx.dll : DrvPresentBuffers

sorry for ur mouse :blink:

Roma Loom

Loomsday Device

#1963 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:24 AM

@Plagman

I've checked windowed mapster32 and eduke32 in win7 with GeForce card - the problems with infinite "not responding" are still here after few alt-tabs

The problem with multiple vidrestarts can't be reproduced on GeForce card.

However I've just found eduke32.crashlog on my WinXP PC with GeForce card with the following content:

Failed to init bfd from (C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvoglnt.dll)
0x696d8250 : C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvoglnt.dll : DllMain

djdori11

#1964 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:39 AM

Micky C, on Dec 2 2010, 04:20 AM, said:

well i did what u said and the game works the same like before with crashes..

Roma Loom

Loomsday Device

#1965 Posted 02 December 2010 - 05:07 AM

Also a dozen of latest mapster builds crash after loading few original maps one by one (switching 2d/3d mode inbetween) after 2nd or 3rd map... And no debug crashreport is generated in this case :blink:

[GF9600GT, WinXP]

This post has been edited by Roma Loom: 02 December 2010 - 05:09 AM

bullerbullerseven

#1966 Posted 02 December 2010 - 06:14 AM

Micky C, on Dec 2 2010, 05:57 AM, said:

Oh and Norvak's right, vertices can be moved, but it's the most awkward thing ever. I guess I shouldn't complain until Helixhorned has had more of a chance to work on the controls like he said.

micky i am a bit confused. is that post for me about what i said with moving the walls only and not vertics?

Helixhorned

EDuke32 Developer

#1967 Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:55 AM

Norvak, on Dec 2 2010, 02:50 AM, said:

BTW it´s possible to move the walls in this mode, right click to see what we are selecting:

and then hold right click to move the point...

No, you still drag points with LMB.

Jhect, on Dec 2 2010, 02:56 AM, said:

Micky C, on Dec 2 2010, 05:57 AM, said:

Oh and Norvak's right, vertices can be moved, but it's the most awkward thing ever. I guess I shouldn't complain until Helixhorned has had more of a chance to work on the controls like he said.

Try the middle mouse button, it will change your z position. This is in contrast with RMB, which slides you in the (x, y) plane.
The aiming is determined with respect to the z position. As I said, it's a bit confusing right now.
Regarding dragging individual vertices, it can't be done straightforwardly simply because there are no separate vertices for the floor and ceiling as far as the map structure is concerned.
BTW, the dotted yellow line goes from your position to the nearest floor so that you have an indication of your elevation.

Roma Loom, on Dec 2 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

[GF9600GT, WinXP]

Maybe it's an infinite loop then? Is there a way to persuade you to install GDB?

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EDuke32 2.0 and Polymer! "talk about the wonders of EDuke32 and the new renderer"

#1938 Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:19 AM

#1939 Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:22 AM

Attached thumbnail(s)

#1940 Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:04 PM

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#1953 Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:44 PM

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#1956 Posted 01 December 2010 - 08:57 PM

#1957 Posted 02 December 2010 - 01:46 AM

#1958 Posted 02 December 2010 - 03:46 AM

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#1960 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:17 AM

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#1962 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:23 AM

#1963 Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:24 AM

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