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Duke!Zone II Playability Edit  "Latest release: v2.2"

User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#31

Version 2.0.6 has been released.

Nothing changed about the addon itself, but the launcher recognizes whether Atomic or World Tour is used (like in EAC 4.0 PR) and chooses the proper grpinfo file automatically now.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#32

Version 2.1 has been released.

This is a bigger change, hopefully the last one. Since some people are having issues getting the addon working, I've decided to convert it into a real groupfile (not a renamed zip any more), with a user.con and tiles014.art. Following traditional file structure, this should now load properly (and easier) for everybody. In return, filesize of the grp increased again from 0.7 to 2.8 MB, but it's a rather minor side effect.

Manual loading now won't even require the -x parameter any longer, so you could start it like
eduke32 -jdukezone2 -gdukezone2.grp
(Provided you keep dukezone2.grp in a subdir called "dukezone2" - and you don't want to use the default grpinfo solution, which remains the easiest of all.)
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User is online   NightFright 

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#33

There's a touchplate right in front of the nukebutton in E2L1 which opens the compartment with the secret exit. There are three CANWITHSOMETHING, spawning an RPG, shotgun ammo and Atomic Health when destroyed. This kinda makes a possible solution obvious: Add another CANWITHSOMETHING in that room and let it spawn a jetpack. Like that one wouldn't have to mess up the level architecture. It's quite easy to do, actually.

Suggested edits:

DZ103:
Right in front of the first grate, surface level. This is the first junction you reach after entering the map. The jetpack is impossible to miss. I don't want to put it inside a grate since there are several. Therefore, one would need to place one in each (can't tell which one player would choose first). If done this way, you basically feel compelled to pick it up and even if you don't, it will be there if you restart the map after you learn from your mistake.
Posted Image
DZ201:
This would be the extra trashcan containing the jetpack. Not next to the other three cans, just to make it not too easy. :)
Posted Image
DZ206:
Pretty in-your-face approach. You wouldn't be able to miss it.
Posted Image
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User is offline   ck3D 

#34

Not to steer offtopic with feedback you've gotten before but I'm honestly a bit floored someone is seriously trying to add jetpacks to Duke! ZONE II (not necessarily in a bad way, and all the while appreciating that they're considerate how to do it). I can see the angle of the idea (the goal is to make it more functional) but out of all terms I think the choice of 'fixed' is out of place. You can't fix an established product, you can only edit and thus break its definition, intent doesn't matter. Just trying to speak from a modder's perspective here. If, say, 20 years from now people revisited my content and overrode all my choices that they don't get, fell out of fashion or personally disagree with and called it 'fixed' I probably would be very discouraged to say the least (although 'modding mods' may be bound to happen as things come full circle eventually). Good luck nonetheless, this is just a platitude to make sure you realize what you're doing before you do it. Am also aware that you personally measure the impact of each and any of your edits, but the basic exercise itself just is bound to be delicate. Mostly I just find it interesting this is happening at all.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 21 February 2024 - 09:34 AM

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User is online   NightFright 

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#35

We could go full purist style and keep those "fixed" maps out of the official release. One would load them as a patch on top of the groupfile if a hassle-free playthrough is desired. I doubt there would be any objections to that approach.
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User is offline   ck3D 

#36

Well if your vision includes editing the content to make it more functional (regardless of how, I figure this is the general intent), might as well go all in with the direction and include those edits in your pack if it already has modified versions of maps. Just to make that 'right' in that case I believe should be a fairly evident disclaimer somewhere in the pack that the original files have been modified to accomodate for this or that. But I've seen you post detailed logs before so absolutely do not doubt that you have that. As a mapper it's just rather counterintuitive practice to witness but again it's interesting and if it weren't you it probably would be someone who's less serious about it doing it.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 21 February 2024 - 09:54 AM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#37

[Took the liberty of moving the discussion over to this place to keep the "Let' play" thread clean.]

I understand that the term "fix" is somewhat misleading here since that could only be acceptable if coming from the original authors. Therefore, I would label this rather some sort of "playability edit". Whether it'd be right or not is a matter of personal perspective, I'd say. I guess I have less issues/reluctance doing it than others, for the better or worse. If it were stuff made by active mappers, I'd never consider it without asking the respective authors, btw.

In general, these maps are shitty and we could leave it at that. I could open a poll about whether to go through with it or not. Anyway, as you have correctly stated, the maps have already been tempered with to a certain degree, just in a less invasive manner.

Two things would be sure:
- There would be a clearly visible "Beware, maps have been significantly altered, this isn't the original experience" disclaimer in the readme, even though it's already implied.
- I wouldn't go any further.
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User is offline   ck3D 

#38

That sounds perfect, clarifies everything about the nature of the project so ensures it's a honest product. I never meant to imply you should change the project name when singling out the term 'fixed' by the way, in that I wasn't even aware that was literally it, I really had general use in mind but I think it's a welcome change, more to the point despite being longer and representative of the content in a sense that can't possibly be misleading. I appreciate the consideration for the principle, since to some people it's actually not a given.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 21 February 2024 - 11:00 AM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#39

I acknowledge the term 'fix' needs to be used carefully. This project still literally fixes certain bugs like when you try to emerge from an underwater area and it wouldn't work because tags were sloppily placed. Calling the whole thing a "fixed edition" however implies this is something official, even though I have already tried to clarify that in the readme.

Hopefully the measures taken demonstrate I'm proceeding with a certain level of common sense and deliberation. I also appreciate this kind of input since it helps to avoid (or address) misunderstandings.
2

User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#40

Alright then, with this topic being settled, I should be able to safely move forward with the gameplay adjustments for the three maps mentioned above.

Formal reminder:
- I do not claim that these sort of map edits are legit in any way or supposed to make any affected levels work as intended by the original authors.
- I am not the author of these levels. My edits are meant as a suggestion which should make sense from a player's perspective, based on feedback gathered in FistMarine's Let's Play thread.

Changelog v2.2
- Batch file (dukezone2.bat) now supports both EDuke32 and Rednukem
- Map tweaks to improve playability:
  DZONE103: Added jetpack (sprite #548) to solve softlock
  DZONE201: Added CANWITHSOMETHING (sprite #558) containing jetpack to solve softlock
  DZONE206: Added jetpack (sprite #262) to solve softlock

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#41

The Mega.nz links on the hrp.duke4.net site still point to the 2.0.5 version of June 14, 2021.
Also, Duke Xtreme does not need such fixes, or gaps are so negligible that does not require any real QOF update?

This post has been edited by Fantinaikos: 23 February 2024 - 09:31 AM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#42

Mega link has been fixed. Thanks for pointing it out!

Regarding Xtreme, Nukemdave already took care of it ten years ago. Similar approach regarding map fixes. Funny enough, I took a look at it today. The only thing that could still be done is a con code review to address that missing sound problem. I already found out what was causing it, but question is: Does it matter to anyone? :P
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