[Mr. Nukem Roses]

MetHy, on 23 June 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

I appreciate you're excited about the episode and trying to help though, but really the whole point of the videos and other things was to be cool little surprises.

As for getting stuck in the map, try to look around. There is another key to be found in the room you've unlocked with the blue key.

ok. look. i'm sorry for the stuff i said earlier

[MetHy]

NukemRoses, on 23 June 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

ok. look. i'm sorry for the stuff i said earlier

NP man it's forgotten, let's move on

Forge, on 23 June 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

http://www.randomizer.org/form.htm

I asked my gf to pick a number between 1 and 15 (she had no idea what i was talking about, it's as random as it can get).

She said

Spoiler

8

So we'll get in touch via PM to see the details I don't think the map should have any big issue in Megaton.

[stumppy84]

CHEERS!! Thanks to all that helped out! Thanks to Methy for orchestrating this!

Everyone's map is awesome!! Wish I spent more time on mine...

[The Commander]

In b4 the "DOESN'T WORK POLYMER, HRP, MEGATON" statements...

Oh wait, I'm to late...

[irukanjji]

Thanks guys, you make my day

[Paul B]

Forge, on 23 June 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

btw. side note

since Paul B asked, i think his map would make a fine representation at steam to advertise the episode

Forge, I appreciate the nice words. Thanks for your support, I didn't even have to bribe you with money this time. Ha..ha!

I also think the reason why there is so much confusion when people try to play the episode using Megaton is because when we talk about our Duke Hard episode as "Classic Duke" people just naturally assume that if it is "Classic" it should work with Megaton since Megaton is totally backwards compatible with the original game. This might be why we get people asking for Megaton support with the Episode. Really, its quite flattering and originally I wasn't entirely sure the direction we were going either, but now I understand. We just need to have patience with those who are new and trying to figure it out because I can see how it can be easily confused.

Anyway, will this work day ever end??? I haven't even finished the episode yet and I'm already wanting to play it over again. I think i've also missed the area to get to the secret level which sucks because I want to see that as well without having to finish the game. Would it be possible for you to tell us which map contains the secret to the secret level so we know what map to search hard for secrets? =D

[MetHy]

To the ones who've played through the episode already :
- Did you get to play the secret map and if so how? (please no spoiler, just wanting to know if you found it legit)
- Did you

Spoiler

unlock the Randomizer+Map Select features ?

Paul B, on 23 June 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

I also think the reason why there is so much confusion when people try to play the episode using Megaton is because when we talk about our Duke Hard episode as "Classic Duke" people just naturally assume that if it is classic it should work in Megaton as well since Megaton is totally backwards compatible with the original game. This might be why we get people asking for Megaton support. Originally I wasn't entirely sure the direction we were going either but now I understand. We just need to have patience with those who are new trying it out because I can see how it would be easily confused.

The 'classic duke' comments in the play information is there to avoid people thinking this was made for HRP/Polymer/some-random-gameplay-mod. Edit : it also says "vanilla-like experience" (=not REALLY vanilla) and "as vanilla as EDuke32 can be" in the readme, too.
And no, I think the only reason people ask or are 'confused' is because they're too stupid to read the damn Installation instruction or play information; you can't even call that 'lazyness', it's just stupid because it takes less time to read it and is less annoying, takes less effort, than NOT to read and go ask random questions as a comment somewhere and wait for an answer which will take 100 times longer to appear than the time it takes to read those few lines, in the best case. "EDuke32 ONLY" is written all over the readme.

Though another reason could be that some people only know modern Duke3D through Megaton. They've rediscovered the game through Steam and have no idea EDuke32 exist, in which case I don't blame them.

Which is why I've added more lines to the instruction/information (and I thought I was holding people hands way too much with that readme...) such as adding "(free sourceport)" before "EDuke32" (for those who don't know what it is do i need to write down the definition of sourceport too????) and specifically saying it does NOT work for DOS Duke/Jonof/xDuke/Rancidmeat/Megaton (even though you SHOULD be able to undestand that when it says "EDUKE32 ONLY" fucking everywhere).
Now the only thing I can't do is actually take people's eyes and put them in front of the Installation/Play Information, even though sometimes I wish I could.

[Paul B]

MetHy, on 23 June 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

SO I've added more lines to the instruction/information (and I thought I was holding people hands way too much with that readme...) such as adding "(free sourceport)" before "EDuke32" (for those who don't know what it is) and specifically saying it does NOT work for DOS Duke/Jonof/xDuke/Rancidmeat/Megaton (even though you SHOULD be able to undestand that when it says "EDUKE32 ONLY" fucking everywhere).
Now the only thing I can't do is actually take people's eyes and put them in front of the Installation/Play Information, even though sometimes I wish I could.

I can see this is a touchy subject. So there you have it people RTFM! (Read the Fucking Manual) before playing the episode. Hehe! I know Methy you've worked damn hard bringing this together and your hard work has payed off because you've release something that will go down in Duke history as epic!

[Forge]

MetHy, on 23 June 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

So we'll get in touch via PM to see the details I don't think the map should have any big issue in Megaton.

i would rather defer to Paul's map since it's been tested on megaton, but it's your project, and if that's the map you want to use then i won't make waves about it.

i'm leaving on the 28th or 29th and should be back around july 7th.

if you're serious then i'll try to get everything done before then

if you're teasing then ha-ha. pick paul's map.

[Jblade]

very cool, although my last name isn't listed and there's several James in the community, but that's a minor detail - if you do make a patch version down the line I'd appreciate my full name being used Anyways excellent work all around, I'll spread the word to other places when I get the chance.

[Forge]

Mickey C, on 22 June 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

...until you get to my map where you get slapped in the face with a wet fish with the lack of detail and shading

okay. just finished your map....and you're full of Grade-A bullshit.

construction destruction was very nice looking and fun, then you go from all timber, beams, and drywall to a high-tech computer map. Nice contrast in environment. Went from dirty and dusty to hermetically sealed.

bits was pretty neat. sections kinda looked like it belonged in the bowels of a space ship or buried under cheyenne mountain.

managed to find another way to squish myself in bits. jump on top of the supercomputer before you reboot it.

[MetHy]

Forge, on 23 June 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

i would rather defer to Paul's map since it's been tested on megaton, but it's your project, and if that's the map you want to use then i won't make waves about it.

Nope it's decided, your map got picked randomly like planned and it's as good as any. Also I think it has no visual or effect which would break in Megaton so the transition is easy.
There: drama and war over which map would get the 'honor' avoided.

James, on 23 June 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

very cool, although my last name isn't listed and there's several James in the community, but that's a minor detail - if you do make a patch version down the line I'd appreciate my full name being used Anyways excellent work all around, I'll spread the word to other places when I get the chance.

Actually I credited using your full name in the map listing; but Daedolon (who wrote the credits, because he made the credits roll video) only used your first name, dunno why, sorry about that.
Will get fixed if we make an update. I'm actually starting to build a small list of potential fixes, nothing game breaking so far though.

Forge, on 23 June 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

okay. just finished your map....and you're full of Grade-A bullshit.

construction destruction was very nice looking and fun, then you go from all timber, beams, and drywall to a high-tech computer map. Nice contrast in environment. Went from dirty and dusty to hermetically sealed.

bits was pretty neat. sections kinda looked like it belonged in the bowels of a space ship or buried under cheyenne mountain.

managed to find another way to squish myself in bits. jump on top of the supercomputer before you reboot it.

I put Bits before Abastractech exactly because I thought it was the best map to make the transition to Abstractech. Like, the player starts getting into a more 'tech' oriented style in Bits.
Keep the squishing coming BTW. Just don't cheat to get back on feet when you get squished or you won't unlock the Randomizer.

[Jblade]

Quote

Actually I credited using your full name in the map listing; but Daedolon (who wrote the credits, because he made the credits roll video) only used your first name, dunno why, sorry about that.
Will get fixed if we make an update. I'm actually starting to build a small list of potential fixes, nothing game breaking so far though.

Just re-read it and you did have my full name, sorry about missing that!

[Sanek]

This is episode is just hit and miss for me.
I like the idea of such episode itself, but the finished thing is not as good as I expected.
The first three maps were good (I can't find secret level btw). I also like Tavio's bloody part (is it Tavio's?). But the rest feels very inconsistent, and so is quality of each map. Some maps really don't feel like a part of building/it's feels like a space stations of some kind (like Mikko's part). The bath map is very good in it's architecture, but the texture choises makes it look very bland. Cinema level looks ugly for me. The penthouse level is good, so sad that it's oversized in some places. The flesh map, with it's white walls feels like something done in 1996, but in good, nostalgic sense of the word. I also like the roof level a lot.

In general I feel 50/50 about this episode. I like this episode not as a whole, but for the seperate brilliant ideas, like enemies appearing in the window with it's (window cleaners'?) elevator. The idea(s) is great, but the whole episode is really forgettable.

[Forge]

my map is buggy in megaton.

next victim

[MetHy]

Sanek, on 23 June 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

I can't find secret level btw

If you've beat the episode on come get some without ever using a cheat, you should have unlocked the Randomizer and the Usermap select which both give you access to the secret map.
Otherwise here is a hint

Spoiler

its entrance is on floor 15

As for your comments about the episode, I appreciate the honest criticism and understand some of your points.

However people need to understand that every map was built individually, none of the mappers (except me) got to see other people's maps. (btw I mentionned that first thing under "Misc Episode Info" in the readme)

Also, the 'different themes' was part of the whole idea of it, I knew it would inevitably mean some of the issues you mentionned (some of the places feeling unrealisticly out of place), but I thought it would make for better gameplay that way. Besides, how many different realistic themes can you get out of a building environment like this? If I didn't ask people to pick different themes, we would probably have ended up with more than half of the maps being the same kind of offices, again and again, which with that many maps would have easily become boring.
It's not REALLY an episode taking place in a building; but rather an episode taking the 'excuse' of the building environment to tie its maps together. This might sound lazy as far as episode making go, but really, this is a simple community episode with maps built individually. It would have taken a LOT more work and a LOT more time to come up with an episode where every map is connected in a progressive coherent way like in the original game's episodes. I really don't even know if it would be possible involving that many people unless the leader literaly dictates everyone what they should do or not, which doesn't sound like fun, and which isn't something I want to do (unless I'm paid for it).

As for the window-cleaner 'thingeys' (do those things even have a name?!), I found it quite funny that 4 different mappers built one, not knowing others did as well, and they all look different too.

Also, the 'bloody part' (as you call it) is High Treason's. You have the full map listing in the readme as well (with for each map: name, filename, author, music used, and mappers' comment if provided)

[Daedolon]

Suspended scaffolding apparently? For some reason apparently that's different from a suspended platform while they're both the same? "Also known as a swing stage." This terminology, man. Why am I even googling this?

[Paul B]

Sanek, on 23 June 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

The idea(s) is great, but the whole episode is really forgettable.

Sanek, I'm disappointed you feel this way and I think your reaction is harsh. There are some really amazing maps in this episode and yes the floors all have different themes that's what makes this episode so much fun because you don't know what to expect next. If it was all cookie cutter business floors it would get repetitive and fast. Now i'm not offended if you think my map sucks because quite frankly after playing about 85% of this episode i'd honestly have to say that my map isn't any where I thought it would be in terms of quality when comparing it to some of these other maps. In fact my map wouldn't even make the top 7 pick. This is a free episode for the community and it has been thoroughly inspected and checked so these are quality maps regardless of what theme you were expecting to see. These mappers have put a lot of effort into providing a fun experience and to say the episode is forgettable is fucking insulting. I know for a fact this isn't forgettable this is a memorable episode because there are things in this episode you won't find in any other user map. So next time you go bashing a free episode just remember heart and soul went into this project and everyone put in an A grade effort to make it what it is..... a memorable experience.

Thanks.

[Micky C]

Sanek's entitled to his opinion. You can argue against the quality and consistency as much as you want and have valid reasons, however I do strongly disagree with the "forgettable" statement.

Being restricted to such a small area has brought out some amazing creativity and originality. I'm only about half way through, but so far I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like, say, Taivo's, Cage's and MRCK's sections before. Some real artsy stuff. I also really enjoyed the gameplay and progression of Cage's and Steambull's maps.
There are other maps that surpassed my expectations or otherwise achieved what they set out to do, which is all we can really ask, but at the end of the day some maps will leave more of an impression than others.

It's heartening to see such quality, creativity and originality still exists in the community. I will say that compared to this, Metropolitan Mayhem is overall more forgettable, since it mostly comprises of "generic" (classic) maps. Those maps are still really good, but technically it's stuff we've seen before, unlike a lot of the maps in this Duke Hard episode which push for a fresh experience.

[MetHy]

Paul B, on 23 June 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

to say the episode is forgettable is fucking insulting.

It's okay man, I never hold back to give criticism (both bad and good) so I'm not going to bash him for saying what he thinks is bad.
Generally on forums too many people don't dare saying what they think when it's negative and I hate that.
Now, I don't think I would use the word 'forgettable' indeed but let's not get picky on a the definition of a single word.

It's good to say what he thinks, for example he's right when saying some stuff feel like they don't belong in a building, but that's because it was the "intention" (part of the design idea of the entire episode) to have different themes every map.

Mickey C, on 23 June 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

I'm only about half way through, but so far I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like, say, Taivo's, Cage's and MRCK's sections before. Some real artsy stuff. I also really enjoyed the gameplay and progression of Cage's and Steambull's maps.
[...]
I will say that compared to this, Metropolitan Mayhem is overall more forgettable, since it mostly comprises of "generic" (classic) maps. Those maps are still really good, but technically it's stuff we've seen before

No love for my maps
To be honest even though I had THREE maps in the episode, in a sense I felt quite limited : the first map HAD to be some kind of entrance/lobby map, the idea of the secret map was just a parking, and the boss map HAD to be a boss/rooftop map.. Then again, I guess I only have myself to blame for that
I intended the first map to be your classic Duke stuff though, to make it feel like an appetizer (which actually was the name I gave to the map at first). Pick keycard, go to room, pick next keycard, go to next room, etc.
Basically, I thought that if the episode starts on an (almost basic) 'classic' progression style, then players would be able to realize more easily that the more original progression-related stuff in later maps ARE really that good.
I tried to compensate for that with the secret map in which the player needs something OTHER than a keycard to progress through the map (something which to my knowledge was never used this way), and also with a solid clean design in each map, and a couple of strong ideas like the storage/security room in the Lobby.

As for MM, I totally see what you mean. But again, that was part of MM's design idea.

[Forge]

bathhouse has nice texture combinations. for me probably the easiest to complete so far
storage wars - that looked like alot of work. pretty neat warehouse. the only bad thing about it was being able to get an unfair advantage over quite a few aliens and shoot them through the gaps between the crates
commercial break - wow. the sounds, the music, the atmosphere.

[Paul B]

So i've finally got through the entire episode on "Come get some" difficulty. The last few levels definitely slowed me down a lot because the difficulty is pretty insane. Overall the entire episode took me about 8 hours to play through from start to finish.

The first time I unlocked the randomizer and the user maps and chose a map to load the game froze while loading the user map. I had to end task on the Eduke process and when I went back into the game it didn't save my randomizer or usermap selection so I had to replay from my last save point and complete the game a second time. After that, just to be on the safe side, I exited Duke Hard to the desktop once finishing the game and then went back in. Settings now saved because it was able to close Eduke gracefully.

I have been experiencing random and rare freeze ups with the mod. Even from the Eduke Launcher when I load the Mod it may occasionally freeze before the Duke Hard Spash screen. I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced this at all during the play through?

[Lunick]

I had some initial troubles like you too when starting the mod and loading from a save file but nothing too troublesome I guess

[MetHy]

That's pretty critical, what version of the EDuke32 were you two using?

[Paul B]

MetHy, on 23 June 2014 - 10:21 PM, said:

That's pretty critical, what version of the EDuke32 were you two using?

I was using : Version: 4525 --> 20140622
Operating System: XP PRO SP3

Next time i'll run the debug version of Eduke so it can generate a log before it freezes should it happens again. Like I said it is pretty irregular. Of course I'm probably the only player that it took 8 hours to play through the entire Episode. Oh well I enjoyed it and therefore didn't rush through it until the final fight scene where it's all about fast reflexes and chaos. =D

[MetHy]

To anyone : if it ever crash, please provide your EDuke32 log (before starting the game again)

Paul B, on 23 June 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

Oh well I enjoyed it and therefore didn't rush through it until the final fight scene where it's all about fast reflexes and chaos. =D

And shouting insults at the alien ship for shooting those rockets in your back, am I right ?! Those damn Aliens are so fucking cheap.

[High Treason]

Hehe, guess what's on TV today...

Spoiler

[Treupp]

Hello, hello.

Well, I tried to launch Duke Hard today with the very latest eduke build (no polymer) on Win7Pro x86

The screen flashed a couple of times and it got back to the desktop.

The debug log is here:
http://pastebin.com/j8dpiLRE

Cheers!

[MetHy]

To all mappers involved :

So, we're going to HAVE to make an update due to at least one reason : Forge has noticed that a jump in his map can't be made if you don't play in EDuke32 (resulting in the player not being able to beat the map).

I had a look and it's actually an EDuke32 glitch. The jump can't be made in original DOS Duke either which apparently means that Duke jumps slighlty higher in EDuke32 (well, there might be a reason OTHER than that but I really can't think of anything).
Which means that if EDuke32 fixes this issue (and it most likely will; unless again I'm wrong, Duke jumps the same and there is another reason for that jump to be only possible in EDuke32) you couldn't beat the 8th map of the episode.
Which means that we have to update.

If you guys think of any required jump in your map (whether it's to beat the map, find a secret, etc) it would be a good idea to check, too.

SO - if you guys thought of any glitch that needs fixing, contact me by PM and let me know. I will also contact by PM the few mappers which map need a small fix.
The update concerns ONLY BUG FIXES. No fucking modifying your map because "you think it sucks compared to others and want to improve it", I don't even want to know, the episode is DONE, let's move on, as far as I'm concerned all maps are good (and you should have thought of that sooner during the 5 months development time).

Thank you.

[Daedolon]

Treupp, on 24 June 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

The debug log is here:

Can you post the full normal eduke32.log? This doesn't seem right even for a debug build.

MetHy, on 24 June 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

SO - if you guys thought of any glitch that needs fixing

I think everyone should play through their map again just to be sure, so we don't get "oh I found a game-breaking bug" after the patch is out. You can use Megaton/DOS builds to check any jumps.