[Altered Reality]

Did you ever play DNF? Do you remember the turds? Dylan's retardedness? Wall boobs? "You're fucked"? THAT was the result of not taking Duke seriously.

[Never Forgotten]

Altered Reality, on 06 July 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Did you ever play DNF? Do you remember the turds? Dylan's retardedness? Wall boobs? "You're fucked"? THAT was the result of not taking Duke seriously.

Duke Nukem should NEVER be taken seriously. Duke Nukem is one of the biggest parodies in gaming history. He mocks every game/movie/any other type of thing possible. If Duke Nukem was to be taken seriously then the franchise would be in worse hell than it already is. And also, Duke being the result of any government project is stupid, I know it's hinted in Atomic Edition, but I think the notion is stupid. Duke can gain health from doing certain things in very few games because... oh wait, did I say game? Hello, it's a game. Every game, has you gain health from something, or just wait for something to recharge like in every modern game.

[Sixty Four]

I somewhat agree but I would say be catious rather then serious. Tread softly like the tiger, as tiger still takes a risk. Those points you mention could also easily be an example of trying to hard or taking it to serious. The humor the nudity the stuff was taken to seriously its like they multiplied it.

In Duke 3d it was funny just because it was. It was not meant to be pooped down our necks I think they took his one liner a bit serious hehe

[Hendricks266]

Altered Reality, on 06 July 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

On the other hand, Duke Nukem must absolutely be taken seriously, to have a chance of being rescued from the laughingstock heap.

Never Forgotten, on 06 July 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

Duke Nukem should NEVER be taken seriously.

[Never Forgotten]

Hendricks266, on 06 July 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Wait... you just contradicted yourself. Unless you share my opinion, but then why would you post what you did about it... unless you agree with Altered Reality, in that case why'd you post Joker's quote. Or you don't care, but then why would you bother to even post something... you're one confusing person...

[Hendricks266]

https://en.wikipedia...i/False_dilemma

[HulkNukem]

Duke should be taken seriously, however it must also be in good fun. Duke spouting one-liners is good. Duke misquoting one-liners or quoting memes is trash.

[Altered Reality]

64Ghost, on 06 July 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

In Duke 3d it was funny just because it was. It was not meant to be pooped down our necks I think they took his one liner a bit serious hehe

In Duke3D it was funny because Duke3D was more serious than DNF. It was basically a serious game with the occasional humorous quip from Duke, so, whenever it happened, it was funny because it was unexpected and broke accepted conventions. On the other hand, in DNF, most of the events, most of what Duke says and most of what happens around him, were intended as gags. It's like someone said: "Oh, have you heard? Duke must not be taken seriously, so we must make his whole world a parody and fill it to the brim with humor, no matter how crummy it is!"
But precisely because all attempts at humor were so frequent, they lost every significance. I laughed several times while playing DNF, but never at a scripted attempt for humor: during those, at most I nodded when I recognized the citation, and sometimes I groaned. Instead, I laughed when an EDF soldier stomped on a pigcop that I had shrunk; I laughed when I managed to throw a dumbbell through a basketball hoop; I laughed when I used a cheat to shoot the balls off a pool table and heard Duke cuss; I laughed when I discovered that it was possible to use a basketball to throw pool balls into the holes. And I laughed because those moments were brief and unexpected, unlike the forced attempts at humor.

Having a mostly serious Duke game (where the game world has certain rules and sticks to them, and when reason for events are given) would also allow plot twists that leave you wide-eyed because they completely change the meaning of previous game events.
Instead, if we force Duke to exist in a wacky world where anything can happen because "it's just a game" and "Duke must not be taken seriously", those reactions of amazement become impossible, because you already know that anything has the same probability to happen. You would open your mouth, not because you're in awe, but because you're yawning.

And now I'll make an example of a scenario that has been discussed in this thread which could unfold in various ways, to prove that it would be better if it was taken seriously.
- Variation A: Doctor Proton shows that he had created Duke in a lab. My reaction: "Yes! I knew it!"
- Variation B: Doctor Proton shows that he had created Duke in a lab, and then says: "Duke, I am your father." My reaction: a smile and a "pff".
- Variation C: Doctor Proton makes it look like he is revealing something important about him and Duke, but never actually does, and then he says: "Duke, I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate." My reaction: a facepalm for not advancing the plot one bit and failing an attempt at humor by parroting the parody of a famous line.

[Never Forgotten]

Altered Reality, on 06 July 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

And now I'll make an example of a scenario that has been discussed in this thread which could unfold in various ways, to prove that it would be better if it was taken seriously.
- Variation A: Doctor Proton shows that he had created Duke in a lab. My reaction: "Yes! I knew it!"
- Variation B: Doctor Proton shows that he had created Duke in a lab, and then says: "Duke, I am your father." My reaction: a smile and a "pff".
- Variation C: Doctor Proton makes it look like he is revealing something important about him and Duke, but never actually does, and then he says: "Duke, I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate." My reaction: a facepalm for not advancing the plot one bit and failing an attempt at humor by parroting the parody of a famous line.

All of those are horrible. No offense, but Proton creating Duke and thus being his father is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Duke being a test tube baby is, as I stated before, stupid. Duke is simply a badass, not because he was made to be, but because he became one. Like The Rock, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, and of course Dolph Lundgren. None of those were created in a lab, nor by their worst enemy, they just worked out a lot.

[Altered Reality]

Never Forgotten, on 06 July 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

Like The Rock, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, and of course Dolph Lundgren. None of those were created in a lab, nor by their worst enemy, they just worked out a lot.

Are you aware of the difference between an actor and a character? Do you think any of those people have ever been capable to do in real life what the characters they played did in their movies? Would you have enjoyed, say, The Terminator, as much as you did, had there been no explanation why the titular character is so strong and bulletproof, except "Chill out, it's just a movie"?

[Carl Winslow]

Are you aware that Duke Nukem literally needed no description because he's a giant pile of cliches from the 80s? Also, we got his backstory. he was a normal dude who got pissed about Doctor Proton interrupting his TV watching. He just happened to also be a buff dude.
Also DNF kinda makes note of him being a government agent of high repetiore idk it doesn't actually matter.

[Altered Reality]

Carl Winslow, on 07 July 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Are you aware that Duke Nukem literally needed no description because he's a giant pile of cliches from the 80s?

No, that is what you want him to be.

Carl Winslow, on 07 July 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Also, we got his backstory. he was a normal dude who got pissed about Doctor Proton interrupting his TV watching. He just happened to also be a buff dude.

No, he was a "self-proclaimed hero" (which means he already did something heroic before Duke Nukem 1) who was hired by the CIA to stop Doctor Proton.

[Carl Winslow]

He isn't just 'what I want him to be'. His design is very explicitly an embodied characterization of of what people thought was cool in the 80s. He's not even the only character that looks like him, he's just the most noted. Like, Beatemups had characters like him constantly, notably Bad Dudes and Boris from Violent Storm. He's the typical American Action Hero™ in what he's tasked to do and the goofy shit that he says. He has a bomb he hidden in his tooth to escape aliens in the second game, a game which STARTS with him being interviewed by Oprah over a book he wrote titled Why I Am So Great. He casually makes quips about various things in the levels that only action heroes would say. You blow up a rocket, an alien space ship TWICE, and generally speaking the most common solution to anything is Blowing It Up, even if there might be a more clever and less destructive solution in any other situation.
He's designed to be a juxtaposition of a really goofy action hero character in what would NORMALLY be a serious scifi setting, and nobody else really takes note of that fact in-universe except for him (Not that there's anything else for him to converse with as is.) It's blatant, simple, and not meant to be looked at too closely because the character doesn't really make sense. He doesn't have a rich backstory or anything that solidifies why he's important or even why he exists, and there's nothing wrong with that. Take it for what it is, dumb bullshit made to be funny.

[Never Forgotten]

Altered Reality, on 07 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Are you aware of the difference between an actor and a character? Do you think any of those people have ever been capable to do in real life what the characters they played did in their movies? Would you have enjoyed, say, The Terminator, as much as you did, had there been no explanation why the titular character is so strong and bulletproof, except "Chill out, it's just a movie"?

I'm not an idiot, but I was listing them because they're the closest I can figure. And yes, the Terminator is a robot, that makes sense. But for Duke to be genetically engineered by Dr. Proton, that's insane. And it ruins Duke Nukem because I like the thought of him just being a badass, and in a video game. In video games you can do stuff you can't in real life, like hiding behind a wall in COD for your health, or picking up medkits that replenish some or all or even more of your health. Duke doesn't do these things because he's been tinkered with, he does them because he's a VIDEO GAME CHARACTER. (also he's a badass.)

[HulkNukem]

I don't think Altered Reality was actually saying Proton genetically modifying Duke in itself was a good idea, he was making the point of if that were to be a reveal, it would be better if it was serious and not just a completely random segment bloated with slapped together memes and overall adds nothing to the character.

[Altered Reality]

Never Forgotten, on 07 July 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Duke doesn't do these things because he's been tinkered with, he does them because he's a VIDEO GAME CHARACTER. (also he's a badass.)

If that is the whole reason, it diminishes the greatness of the character and brings him down to almost nothing! Duke cannot be "a video game character" in the same (Watsonian) way that the Terminator is "a robot", because that would bring him closer to Wreck-It Ralph than to a badass hero!

[Tea Monster]

Duke? Completely serious? You never played DN3D did you?

[Altered Reality]

Tea Monster, on 07 July 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Duke? Completely serious? You never played DN3D did you?

*COUGH* http://forums.duke4....post__p__225788

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Who else is in favor of ditching the Proton plot altogether? We have enough sequelitis as it is nowadays.

[DukeNukem64]

Is this about Bombshell or Duke Nukem?...

[Altered Reality]

Spastic Lagomorph, on 07 July 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

Who else is in favor of ditching the Proton plot altogether? We have enough sequelitis as it is nowadays.

Yeah, let's ditch the best character in the series...

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Altered Reality, on 07 July 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Yeah, let's ditch the best character in the series...

You're joking right?

[Never Forgotten]

Altered Reality, on 07 July 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Yeah, let's ditch the best character in the series...

I told myself I'd stay out of this, but I gave in... Proton is not the best, in my opinion at least, Duke is. Now if we're talking about enemies, I've always been partial to the Cycloid Emperor.

[Altered Reality]

Spastic Lagomorph, on 07 July 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

You're joking right?

No, if I was joking, I would have said: "A horse walks into a bar. The bartender asks him: Why the long face?"

Never Forgotten, on 07 July 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

I told myself I'd stay out of this, but I gave in... Proton is not the best, in my opinion at least, Duke is. Now if we're talking about enemies, I've always been partial to the Cycloid Emperor.

So, let's see who the best character is.
- Duke: he used to be a badass with a sense of humor who does what we dream we could do; he turned into a meme-spouting, one-dimensional, unfunny Jersey Shore reject.
- Doctor Proton: he used to be a generic mad scientist; he turned into a dangerous transhumanist with plans to rule over an alien species.
- Cycloid Emperor: he... uh... shoots. And he's big. Yes. Big.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Altered Reality, on 07 July 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

- Cycloid Emperor: he... uh... shoots. And he's big. Yes. Big.

Best character ever.

[Never Forgotten]

Altered Reality, on 07 July 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

So, let's see who the best character is.
- Duke: he used to be a badass with a sense of humor who does what we dream we could do; he turned into a meme-spouting, one-dimensional, unfunny Jersey Shore reject.
- Doctor Proton: he used to be a generic mad scientist; he turned into a dangerous transhumanist with plans to rule over an alien species.
- Cycloid Emperor: he... uh... shoots. And he's big. Yes. Big.

I'm sorry, what did you say about Duke? He USED to be a badass? I'm sorry, not matter what they do to Duke, he'll always will be a badass. Dr. Proton planned to take over the earth with his robot army, that's way more threatening than ruling over an ALIEN species... And as for the Cycloid, isn't that all we need out of an ALIEN enemy?

[Tea Monster]

See, I told you he never played it!

[Altered Reality]

Never Forgotten, on 07 July 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

I'm sorry, what did you say about Duke? He USED to be a badass? I'm sorry, not matter what they do to Duke, he'll always will be a badass.

No, on the contrary, it matters very much. He'll only be a badass in Duke3D, Duke Nukem: Zero Hour and DNMP, but the latest update on Duke (DNF) shows him as unfunny and obsolete.
Maybe you're content with living in a world where the best Duke game is and will always be Eduke32, but I'm not. I want new Duke games, new ways to interact with a game world as Duke. I want people to laugh with him, not at him. I want to be able to say: "Eduke32? Who wants that, when this brand new Duke game trumps it in every aspect?" But that can only happen when developers give Duke some respect and a reason to be cool without being a parody, because being a parody used to be a nice side effect (in Duke3D), then it became a crutch (in the games for PS1 and N64) and now it's a ball and chain (in DNF)! Treating Duke as a parody has become an excuse for developers to not think creatively and just spit back stuff they saw somewhere else.
Think back when Duke3D was new. What are the moments of playing Duke3D that you treasure the most? The ones that you recalled because you already saw them somewhere else, or the ORIGINAL moments that left you in awe because you saw them in Duke3D for the first time?

[Never Forgotten]

Altered Reality, on 08 July 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

Think back when Duke3D was new. What are the moments of playing Duke3D that you treasure the most? The ones that you recalled because you already saw them somewhere else, or the ORIGINAL moments that left you in awe because you saw them in Duke3D for the first time?

First of all, when Duke 3D came out, I was 1, turning 2. But I grew up watching my Dad play Duke 3D and Doom 2. I loved Duke 3D, my favorite level was, and always will be, L.A. Rumble, mostly for the music but I love the design of it. And it manages not to have any parodies in it. But I blame whatever's wrong with DNF on Gearbox, and the Duke fanbase. As Duke fans we begged 3D Realms to release DNF, but once Gearbox took over they no longer had the vision 3D Realms had, which is exactly what you, and most Duke fans, wanted. They just wanted to appease the complaining fans and have a release date. The ultimately ended up releases a unfinished version of their '09 game. As much as I love that game, if they had released it in '09, or worked on it more instead of listening to the fans, we'd have a better DNF, and you would not be complaining.

[Player Lin]

Excuse me, but I still don't get what's the points about talking Duke Nukem on Bombshell thread...