[oasiz]

Pretty much all pre-release stuff is just L6, more specifically E1L2 from few different angles.

I think EP3 is mostly like that for it to work well in DM and that it was made at the tail end of development by LL.

[NNC]

MrFlibble, on 24 September 2023 - 01:30 PM, said:

Just popping in to say this. I'm not criticising the final design decisions, but I have to say that urban areas indeed have always had a great appeal to me in Duke3D, and the E3 levels mentioned above indeed do the impression of city streets rather poorly, especially when compared to pre-release screenshots and the LameDuke levels. For a certain time, I had this idea of how cool it would be to roam real-life streets in the game -- thankfully there are many user maps that do exactly that, and overall very nicely indeed.

The design of urban areas in the game as it is does not hurt gameplay or immersion, but it does feel cramped quite often, and it's very hard for me not to think (although I might very well be wrong here) that performance concerns were one of the reasons for this state of affairs. I also agree that this mostly relates to E3 levels, I have no problem with E1L1 or E1L2, although the outside areas are also quite limited in scope, they're a huge step above urban stuff from Doom II for example, almost feels like it's a next generation game here really.

E3's has a strength though with the coherent look, coherent texturing, visual narratives, enemy placement, and the night vision message running gag can't be found anywhere else. Well, especially the LL maps have this coherent look, Freeway uses the E3 specific tiles013.art set extensively, but it still feels more of an E1 map, closer to E1L1/L2, but that's no surprise it was made by Blum. And as we noticed many times before, it's XXX Stacy in episode 4, which feels like something that is E3-ish, it really doesn't even use Atomic art other than a few rooms (Unabomber area was a late addition, or the printing room near the start).

But with all the charm these maps have, I still wish more urban grandness was added to the game. Even E1L2 was a slight letdown after E1L1, it's for example a daylight level with night sky.

[Gargoyle]

10 years since this legendary thread was started. Can we celebrate this with say some early builds of Cosmo, Monster Bash, Halloween Harry and Raptor? The hype still hasn't faded out of us.

[Dr_Proton]

So Classic Doom got a huge update today and it contains the best addition yet, the id vault! I wish we could get the same treatment for Duke3D... Imagine all the cool development pictures and alternate sprites.

[NNC]

Dr_Proton, on 08 August 2024 - 03:22 PM, said:

So Classic Doom got a huge update today and it contains the best addition yet, the id vault! I wish we could get the same treatment for Duke3D... Imagine all the cool development pictures and alternate sprites.

They didn't even fix the pathetic final boss in World Tour, how can someone expect an ambitious job from Pitchfork?

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

Terminx has been posting more content from Duke 3D prototypes lately.

Enemies

Robot enemy that appeared in an April 1994 build.

 april bot 1.png (2.82K)
Number of downloads: 9
 april bot 2.png (2.9K)
Number of downloads: 4

Robot that is in a May 1994 build.

 may bot 1.png (1.82K)
Number of downloads: 6
 may bot 2.png (1.85K)
Number of downloads: 2
 may bot 3.png (1.69K)
Number of downloads: 1
 may bot 4.png (1.77K)
Number of downloads: 1
 may bot 5.png (1.74K)
Number of downloads: 1

A May 1994 build has it, the Femanoid, and the bat as enemies.

 may bot enemies.png (133.89K)
Number of downloads: 20

Speaking of the Femanoid, she was the first humanoid enemy in the game.

 first humanoid enemy.png (20.35K)
Number of downloads: 19
 femanoid first.png (2.02K)
Number of downloads: 15

The bat in a May 1994 build looked very different from the one in Lameduke.

 may bat.png (11.54K)
Number of downloads: 17
 may bat dead.png (1.04K)
Number of downloads: 9

Weapons

The May 1994 build has this as a weapon

 gun.png (3.59K)
Number of downloads: 12

This is another "frame" for it found in the files.

 gun 2.png (3.65K)
Number of downloads: 9

And this is the weapon's item sprite.

 gun world.png (2.04K)
Number of downloads: 10

The item sprite for the weird weapon in the April 1994 build.

 gun item.png (1.69K)
Number of downloads: 12

The first person sprite for reference.

 weird gun item first person.png (6.32K)
Number of downloads: 11

October 1994 build's Pistol first person sprites. The last two tiles were cut from later iterations of the Pistol's firing animation.

 1094 pistol 1.png (2.68K)
Number of downloads: 4
 1094 pistol 2.png (3.44K)
Number of downloads: 2
 1094 pistol 3.png (2.7K)
Number of downloads: 3
 1094 pistol 4.png (2.76K)
Number of downloads: 5
 1094 pistol 5.png (2.6K)
Number of downloads: 4

The item sprite for the Pistol in the October 1994 build.

 pistol 1.png (1007bytes)
Number of downloads: 6

The Pistol's (called Hand Gun here) HUD icon in the October 1994 build.

 pistol 2.png (983bytes)
Number of downloads: 3

Skies

Sky from an April 1994 build.

 april sky.png (50.82K)
Number of downloads: 17

Sky seen in 3DR's now-deleted beta game trailer.

 skybox.png (10.78K)
Number of downloads: 18

Sky that has Editart information in it for some reason.

 editart sky.png (18.27K)
Number of downloads: 15

Another sky. Not sure where this one is from.

 sky.png (87.61K)
Number of downloads: 17

Textures

The first switch tiles for Duke 3D.

 1st switch 1.png (1.29K)
Number of downloads: 6
 1st switch 2.png (1.29K)
Number of downloads: 4

Another switch that seems to be based on the previous one.

 switch 1.png (1.38K)
Number of downloads: 3
 switch 2.png (1.37K)
Number of downloads: 2

Temp-looking electrified water tiles.

 elecwater 1.png (6.62K)
Number of downloads: 3
 elecwater 2.png (5.13K)
Number of downloads: 1
 elecwater 3.png (7.04K)
Number of downloads: 1
 elecwater 4.png (5.21K)
Number of downloads: 2


The same tiles without the electric "effect" drawn on them.

 water 1.png (4.42K)
Number of downloads: 2
 water 2.png (4K)
Number of downloads: 1
 water 3.png (4.64K)
Number of downloads: 1
 water 4.png (3.88K)
Number of downloads: 1

The bookshelf tile before it was painted over.

 bookshelf unpainted.png (11.21K)
Number of downloads: 6

An early propane tank.

 explosive.png (2.08K)
Number of downloads: 4

Early exploding and flying barrel.

 barrel 1.png (1.79K)
Number of downloads: 3
 barrel 2.png (2.32K)
Number of downloads: 2

Attempts at painting lighting and shadowing onto textures.

 seper tex1.png (4.07K)
Number of downloads: 3
 seper tex2.png (2.95K)
Number of downloads: 4

Some tiles found in the May 1994 build that survived to the final game. They were not in the April 1994 prototype.

 tex1.png (8.54K)
Number of downloads: 3
 tex2.png (9.31K)
Number of downloads: 3
 tex3.png (3.99K)
Number of downloads: 2
 tex4.png (10.1K)
Number of downloads: 2
 tex5.png (3.8K)
Number of downloads: 2
 tex6.png (3.12K)
Number of downloads: 2
 tex7.png (2.09K)
Number of downloads: 4
 tex8.png (2.78K)
Number of downloads: 2

Miscellaneous

Pallete from an unreleased prototype. Not sure which one.

 oldpal.png (15.1K)
Number of downloads: 5

Information about how Episode 1 was going to end at one point.

 e1 ending.png (15.29K)
Number of downloads: 38

Some info about a cut "alien hive" level Levelord was working on.

 alien hive ll map.png (27.94K)
Number of downloads: 32

Dr. Proton was not in early prototypes.

 no proton.png (17.28K)
Number of downloads: 29

[jkas789]

That little robot looks like something out of Sonic.

[OpenMaw]

Reminds me of a reimagined version of the Duke 1 hover robots.

[ck3D]

Early E1 shots TerminX recently shared on Discord:



E1L1 secret featuring stripper instead of turrets + second arcade room + random test, DNSKILL5-only Battlelord on the streets.









Shows the women's bathroom used to connect back around to the garage at the start, making for a whole loop inside of the level that's gone.



Even older E1L1.

Now, E1L2:





^ Interesting Commander placement.





Level start:











Dressing room of the strip club, showing one more loop in the layout that's gone:







Even older version(s):



Looks like the sewer used to be just a secret hole with Portable Medkit.








Early Launch Facility featuring slime whirlpool and not gear:



All the images are linked straight from the Discord so might not stay around forever in case anybody wants to archive them, they should download them - sometimes Discord images get wiped at random.

[MrFlibble]

ck3D, on 04 December 2024 - 05:28 AM, said:

All the images are linked straight from the Discord so might not stay around forever in case anybody wants to archive them, they should download them - sometimes Discord images get wiped at random.

Such a wonderful feature, what could go wrong?

Seriously though, could you perhaps re-upload them please? None of the images open for me ATM.

[Phredreeke]

I revived the images and zipped them for you

Attached File(s)

•  revive2.zip (6.74MB)
  Number of downloads: 22

[NY00123]

Thanks for bringing the information here, and also for preparing the files in the ZIP archive. Further thanks not just for bringing these up in the Discord server, but also for adding the various other screenshots and bits of information posted earlier.

Referring to the more recent post, as mentioned in the Discord server, the screenshot of the older E1L2 map may show more connections to the layout of Lameduke's L6. It's another case where the connection between two revisions of a map or map segments might not be clear without sufficient familiarity, or without getting through an intermediate revision.

MrFlibble, on 05 December 2024 - 05:08 AM, said:

None of the images open for me ATM.

It's probably a side-effect of a feature done by design. As far as I may tell, files and images uploaded to Discord are supposed to be opened via the Discord client, first and foremost. It's even possible a URL won't work as-is unless clicked from Discord, with the latter potentially changing the URL (e.g., adding a suffix) in some manner upon opening from the client.

For me, it's been at least a few years in which I've generally refrained from embedding externally hosted images in forums. I might make an exception here and there, say for videos, but that's my approach. If I cannot attach images to a forum, chances are I won't show them at all. Otherwise, I'll simply attach them.

The Duke4.net forums should also let you attach images at specific locations of your choice in your post, as I did in at least one older post of mine.

[MrFlibble]

Phredreeke, on 05 December 2024 - 09:06 AM, said:

I revived the images and zipped them for you

Thanks! Much appreciated!

[ck3D]

NY00123, on 06 December 2024 - 06:36 AM, said:

It's probably a side-effect of a feature done by design. As far as I may tell, files and images uploaded to Discord are supposed to be opened via the Discord client, first and foremost. It's even possible a URL won't work as-is unless clicked from Discord, with the latter potentially changing the URL (e.g., adding a suffix) in some manner upon opening from the client.

For me, it's been at least a few years in which I've generally refrained from embedding externally hosted images in forums. I might make an exception here and there, say for videos, but that's my approach. If I cannot attach images to a forum, chances are I won't show them at all. Otherwise, I'll simply attach them.

The Duke4.net forums should also let you attach images at specific locations of your choice in your post, as I did in at least one older post of mine.

I was under the impression one didn't need Discord to load these images as I recall people could successfully share Discord images with me before I ever downloaded the app/made an account/joined servers but that was a couple of years ago now so I wouldn't be surprised at all if their system had changed. In the case of this particular post the preview worked for me for a few hours (not without having spent half an hour trying to fix the links so that they would), maybe because still in my cache but seeing as I had had more stable experience before with that type of linkage I didn't expect it would so easily fail now. Inputting the URL of the images inside of a web browser it's interesting it shows an error message saying the content is 'no longer available' when in reality it is and just not being accessed what's supposed to be the prominent way. Pair that up with how Duke4 doesn't let you edit posts any older than a few hours (or delete any post at all) + my upload quota on here is full + how image hosting websites can't even load on this broken laptop I'm using and yeah, you can see why I gave up.

Glad the images were recovered and shared again. FWTW they still are available on the Discord directly too. I absolutely detest that app to be honest and am looking forward to stopping using it.

[NY00123]

ck3D, on 06 December 2024 - 10:54 PM, said:

I was under the impression one didn't need Discord to load these images as I recall people could successfully share Discord images with me before I ever downloaded the app/made an account/joined servers but that was a couple of years ago now so I wouldn't be surprised at all if their system had changed. In the case of this particular post the preview worked for me for a few hours (not without having spent half an hour trying to fix the links so that they would), maybe because still in my cache but seeing as I had had more stable experience before with that type of linkage I didn't expect it would so easily fail now. Inputting the URL of the images inside of a web browser it's interesting it shows an error message saying the content is 'no longer available' when in reality it is and just not being accessed what's supposed to be the prominent way.

Good chances are the way it's working had changed, indeed. I may currently see the screenshots from the PC, but I recall not all of them appearing from a mobile browser. I've gotten the same error with at least one of the URLs. It's not impossible the full URL has details tied to one's account, token, IP address or other features, in order to reduce the chances of working URLs being preserved for use by others outside of Discord.

Quote

my upload quota on here is full

Is that for you forum account in general, or just for one forum post? If it's for the account, then yeah, it is a limit to consider. It essentially leads to a situation similar to forums lacking the ability to attach images directly (not as links), unless you delete older attachments. If specific to one post, then chances are that splitting the post for the given purpose will be acceptable (at least if not consisting of, e.g., 10 posts in a row).

[NNC]

The more I look at the final version of E1L2, the more I think it's one of the worst levels in the entire game.

They really should have kept the pool room and the OJ room linked together and the garage looked amazing.

[ck3D]

NY00123, on 07 December 2024 - 02:29 PM, said:

Is that for you forum account in general, or just for one forum post? If it's for the account, then yeah, it is a limit to consider. It essentially leads to a situation similar to forums lacking the ability to attach images directly (not as links), unless you delete older attachments. If specific to one post, then chances are that splitting the post for the given purpose will be acceptable (at least if not consisting of, e.g., 10 posts in a row).

It's my account limit, I go through it and delete some of the most benign attachments from time to time but there's a lot of attachments I'd rather keep up so my options are limited in that regard.

Made an exception for those new old shots Terminx just shared again:

Reveal that Shop N Bag was forked from Bank Roll:

 1.png (465.13K)
Number of downloads: 33

Fountain plaza that was cut:

 2.png (593.66K)
Number of downloads: 23

Hotel area and larger abortion clinic both cut from LA Rumble:

 3.png (155.52K)
Number of downloads: 19

 4.png (317.6K)
Number of downloads: 18

Old XXX Stacy that used to be just an office building + industrial area, originally named El Segundo, didn't make it into D3D:

 5.png (702.54K)
Number of downloads: 24

Later iteration with the theme worked in and before the canal got cut (but 'already turned from a keycard pickup spot to just a secret with an Atomic Health'):

 6.png (530.33K)
Number of downloads: 21

[NNC]

I wish one day we can play these actual levels even if they are unfinished. Was the XXX Stacy on the last shot was the one where Levelord left, or was he left before the theme worked in?

Also which was the level with the fountain park?

The LA Rumble extras looked very cool, particularly that dark entrance to the clinic. Lots of stupid cutting and shipping.

[ck3D]

The fountain also is from OG Bank Roll. It can be seen on the 2D map. The diagonal road and building in the bottom right are what became the starting area of Shop N Bag.

[Aleks]

I'd say these do look cool, but more from a what if.../pure nerdy museum-curator point of view rather than from how they would look/play. The abortion clinic rooms look rather generic/repetitive and I'm glad the game actually avoided this kind of designs bare few examples (rows behind forcefields in Death Row, but they serve a purpose), which some other games didn't have a problem with doing at the time. Bank Roll's final design is also much better IMO, it's one of the perfect maps that works great in both SP and DM, since it opens such a nice loop around the whole level (as an aside, L.A. Rumble isn't as good as it could be with its potential in DM but only due to all the respawns being scattered in the starting area an limiting the variety of gameplay). Plus it seems the older iteration misses the iconic vault room!

[NNC]

Aleks, on 09 December 2024 - 03:05 PM, said:

I'd say these do look cool, but more from a what if.../pure nerdy museum-curator point of view rather than from how they would look/play. The abortion clinic rooms look rather generic/repetitive and I'm glad the game actually avoided this kind of designs bare few examples (rows behind forcefields in Death Row, but they serve a purpose), which some other games didn't have a problem with doing at the time. Bank Roll's final design is also much better IMO, it's one of the perfect maps that works great in both SP and DM, since it opens such a nice loop around the whole level (as an aside, L.A. Rumble isn't as good as it could be with its potential in DM but only due to all the respawns being scattered in the starting area an limiting the variety of gameplay). Plus it seems the older iteration misses the iconic vault room!

I disagree. I vastly prefer maps with bigger scale even if it somewhat ""hurts"" the gameplay (obviously there is a golden mean for it, the map shouldn't be too tedious). Death Row, Toxic Dump, The Abyss, Warp Factor, Fusion Station, Lunar Reactor, Dark Side, Derelict (or Sewer) are all big maps with big scales, and lot of them can be chopped to be more action packed, but we can be glad they are there and give the game a proper conceptual grandness and an actual world around you. I mean, The Abyss is a great example: the boss fight can arrive earlier without that long walk to the mothership, yet, it was still a great experience and added a lot to the atmosphere.

It seems many maps like Red Light District, Bank Roll, Flood Zone, LA Rumble, Rabid Transit or XXX Stacy were simply better and bigger maps, but grandness were cut from them to match Broussard's cutting is shipping policy (Yet, I still love the final versions of Flood Zone and LA Rumble). Obviously these betas weren't finished, for example the hideous wall outside of Red Light District was still there, but I still miss those cut areas that give the maps a more satisfying feel. Bank Roll in particular, is a 4 minute interlude. Sure, every single area is needed, and the layout is "compact", but having a neat little park nearby wouldn't hurt the game, would it?

I hope one day we will find a way to play these betas, and the ultimate versions of the maps can be properly built up from them, merging the best of cut areas and best of final areas (as there were some upgrades in the final versions).

[NNC]

ck3D, on 09 December 2024 - 08:09 AM, said:

The fountain also is from OG Bank Roll. It can be seen on the 2D map. The diagonal road and building in the bottom right are what became the starting area of Shop N Bag.

It's kinda weird though, I can't see the similarities between Shop N Bag (which was not diagonal and mostly a ruined place) and this. I guess those places were mostly empty, the park itself is well designed (for it's time), and maybe the building around it.

[ck3D]

NNC, on 10 December 2024 - 01:22 AM, said:

It's kinda weird though, I can't see the similarities between Shop N Bag (which was not diagonal and mostly a ruined place) and this. I guess those places were mostly empty, the park itself is well designed (for it's time), and maybe the building around it.

It's possible I'm wrong and that's not it, for some reason I remembered the start of Shop N Bag as diagonal but I haven't played The Birth in years. So it's probably one of the other parking lots if you're saying it's not at an angle. Speaking of diagonals I find it's interesting how the canal in early XXX Stacy used to have an interesting shape before getting straightened and then scrapped completely. Both automaps generally follow the same pattern but in terms of dimensions etc. seem to have very little to do with one another, it almost looks like two different people's respective takes on the same exercise. Lone Cycloid Emperor at the end of the canal also is funny.

[NNC]

ck3D, on 10 December 2024 - 01:56 PM, said:

It's possible I'm wrong and that's not it, for some reason I remembered the start of Shop N Bag as diagonal but I haven't played The Birth in years. So it's probably one of the other parking lots if you're saying it's not at an angle. Speaking of diagonals I find it's interesting how the canal in early XXX Stacy used to have an interesting shape before getting straightened and then scrapped completely. Both automaps generally follow the same pattern but in terms of dimensions etc. seem to have very little to do with one another, it almost looks like two different people's respective takes on the same exercise. Lone Cycloid Emperor at the end of the canal also is funny.

Are there any pics from the canal? It looks genuinely interesting.

EDIT: Especially considering that it has two manholes (and an extra manhole cover somewhere around the explosion area). Are they working in the same way as the ones in Tier Drops or are they connected to other places? I guess this map was meant to be placed in episode 3, and the pic with the theme already worked into it might be the one where Levelord left it.

I think that weird "Funny boner" club was a good idea in the final version.