[MusicallyInspired]

What bugs me is we didn't ASK for an isometric Duke game. And now we've potentially lost all the stuff we DID want. Interceptor should have just abandoned the dumb Mass Destruction title as soon as there was contention.

Gah...

[The Kins]

In a way, this thread is a perfect tribute to the 3D Realms of old - spending far too long trying to make a spectre of the past "perfect" and ending up with nothing.

[Altered Reality]

I'll quote Rapture_Rising from the 3dRealms forum:

Quote

Probably not a surprising result and was the terms of the settlement between 3DR and Gearbox, So it looks like Gearbox owns everything Duke Nukem now.

The thing is this is what 3DR gets for trying to use a technicality to release a Duke Nukem game that it didn't have the rights too, this whole situation could have been avoided if Interceptor went to Gearbox with the idea. There is no Duke Nukem game from Gearbox in sight so they probably would have allowed development to continue, instead we ended up with this mess.

3DR realms would have done the same thing in this situation so Gearbox really aren't the bad guys here.

Personally, I had already lost hope in ever getting alphas or betas when I heard that Joe "hoard, brag and never share" Siegler was back at 3DRealms.

P. S.
I just noticed that the 3DRealms catalog still contains Duke Nukem games. I wonder whether they will eventually be removed...

[Sonaria The Druid]

You can only blame Fresch because of THAT! He could release these builds long time ago but no, he was wanted to make a project with that and its failed.Builds WERE PROMISED to be released and what we have now?!
Gearbox will never give a permission for that because this stuff means nothing for them. And actually - NO ONE is interested in DN3D builds, only hardcore fans want them. What the fucking problem? JUST LEAK builds and this story ends.

[The Kins]

It's okay guys. I'm sure they still have the rights to some stuff.

I for one can't wait for the essay-length, developer-interview riddled exploration of the torrid development history behind Paganitzu.

[Frederik Schreiber]

Sonaria, that couldn't be further from the truth.

The promise is still there, but we are no longer the owners of that promise unfortunately. Again, we did the best we could all the way through. TerminX knows the details as he was involved in the work on this, but is unfortunately also under NDA.

[Sonaria The Druid]

Frederik Schreiber, on 31 August 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Sonaria, that couldn't be further from the truth.

The promise is still there, but we are no longer the owners of that promise unfortunately. Again, we did the best we could all the way through. TerminX knows the details as he was involved in the work on this, but is unfortunately also under NDA.

Gearbox is not interested in this stuff. And they even didn't know about existance of this stuff. So again - what the problem with leaking it from some "anonymous"?

[The Kins]

Sonaria The Druid, on 31 August 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Gearbox is not interested in this stuff. And they even didn't know about existance of this stuff. So again - what the problem with leaking it from some "anonymous"?

Because it'd be incredibly, mind-blowingly obvious where it came from? Because not being sued into financial/career ruin is better than internet cred? Because you realistically didn't think about this for longer than five seconds?

[Sonaria The Druid]

The Kins, on 31 August 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

Because it'd be incredibly, mind-blowingly obvious where it came from? Because not being sued into financial/career ruin is better than internet cred? Because you realistically didn't think about this for longer than five seconds?

Wow. Your arguments is completely invalid. It can be leaked from ANYONE, for instance from some "old anonymous" 3DR worker and so on! A lot of old games got actively builds leaks and no one cares. For instance a lot of builds of first Unreal got leaked from somebody without any permission from Epic. No one cares.

[Marphy Black]

Sonaria The Druid, on 31 August 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Gearbox will never give a permission for that because this stuff means nothing for them.

Are you insinuating that my plan of calling Randy at his home phone in the middle of the night asking for betas may be ill-conceived?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Marphy Black, on 31 August 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Are you insinuating that my plan of calling Randy at his home phone in the middle of the night asking for betas may be ill-conceived?

It lacks subtlety a pinch.

Maybe consider skywriting "RELEASE THE BETAS" over Gearbox HQ.

[icecoldduke]

Right now, as much as I hate to say it, the Duke IP isn't worth much of anything, and it made sense for 3dr to give it up, even if it was to avoid a hefty penalty. When 3dr posted about the beta resurrection project, I did mention it was a bad idea to talk about the project without releasing anything, all it would do is get people's hopes up. They failed to deliver and the fallout was more animosity toward the IP, it seemed like a bad business decision.

What's done is done. I feel for the Richard and Evan who I'm sure put in long hours on the project, but shit like this happens. Gearbox won't allow it to get released, it doesn't make business sense for Randy to allow it to happen, and I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of the day the reason the beta project doesn't see the light of day is Randy wants to stick it to 3dr.

[icecoldduke]

Sonaria The Druid, on 31 August 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

Wow. Your arguments is completely invalid. It can be leaked from ANYONE, for instance from some "old anonymous" 3DR worker and so on! A lot of old games got actively builds leaks and no one cares. For instance a lot of builds of first Unreal got leaked from somebody without any permission from Epic. No one cares.

You don't know that, you don't know who if anyone got fired for leaked Unreal builds, or if Epic discontinued partnership with whatever external studio leaked the build. Leaking builds opens 3dr up to legal action, what is the cost benefit?

[Ronin]

I was hoping for a re - release of Time To Kill, no way Shovelware will have an interest in that or any other fan service for that matter.

As for the leak suggestion, that would get a very small pool of people into a lot of trouble, they would be mad to do that.

Shovelware may now be able to use these builds as a way to sweeten the old fan base to try and get them back on their side, but I doubt they care as there's no enough money to be made and they would probably loose time and money overseeing something like this.

If only 3D Realms could have seen how a guy that they would give a break to in the business would be crushing the company under his boot 20 years later.

[Fox]

To sum it up, 3DRealms was raped in the courtroom. Likewise 3DRealms never stood a chance against a giant like Gearbox, so anyone who ever purchased a product from Gearbox is guilty.

[Altered Reality]

Fox, on 31 August 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

To sum it up, 3DRealms was raped in the courtroom. Likewise 3DRealms never stood a chance against a giant like Gearbox, so anyone who ever purchased a product from Gearbox is guilty.

Well, considering that:
1)I bought a copy of DNF
2) Gearbox is now the sole owner of the Duke Nukem IP
3) I will buy all eventual Duke games that Gearbox releases
then yes, I am guilty. I am guilty of looking forward to the future of a beloved character. I am guilty of supporting the future of said character. I am guilty of giving way more importance to said character than I would to a faded memory. I will be guilty for my entire life and I will proudly wear my guilt like a medal of honor.

The Duke Nukem IP is in way more competent hands than it was when George was at the helm of 3DRealms. Would it be in better hands if it belonged to Fresch's 3DRealms? Well, it's impossible to know. Anyway, always remember that that possibility is not real, and it's not something we can interact with.

[PikaCommando]

Altered Reality, on 31 August 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'll quote Rapture_Rising from the 3dRealms forum:

Personally, I had already lost hope in ever getting alphas or betas when I heard that Joe "hoard, brag and never share" Siegler was back at 3DRealms.

P. S.
I just noticed that the 3DRealms catalog still contains Duke Nukem games. I wonder whether they will eventually be removed...

What does Joe "hoard, brag and never share" Siegler have to do with this? I thought it's all because of Gearbox learning a little too much from Walt "cease and desist" Disney?


Also, does the "not allowing the release of" these unreleased materials extend to screenshots and videos of them? What about just describing them in detail?

[Altered Reality]

PikaCommando, on 31 August 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

What does Joe "hoard, brag and never share" Siegler have to do with this? I thought it's all because of Gearbox learning a little too much from Walt "cease and desist" Disney?

Joe Siegler has a long history of bragging about his own archives of 3DRealms history, alphas, betas, unreleased projects, and then threatening of banning anyone who asks him to share them. When I read that he was back at 3DRealms, I already knew the chances of getting any historically interesting material would be zero. Now, many more people are sure of that, and even though the reason is different, the end result is the same.

Gearbox is acting exactly like 3DRealms would, if the situations were reversed. I am absolutely sure of this because in 1999 I shared a couple of screenshots of a Hollywood Holocaust remake for Quake2 I was working on, and I got a cease and desist email from George. So I ceased and desisted.

[Tea Monster]

Where can we get hold of court papers describing the settlement?

[TerminX]

Tea Monster, on 31 August 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Where can we get hold of court papers describing the settlement?

You can't, it was settled out of court and the terms are confidential.

[Lunick]

Sneaky bastards...

[Fox]

Altered Reality, on 31 August 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

I am guilty of supporting the future of said character.

By "supporting" you mean funding lawsuits to make sure no Duke titles will ever shed light in the future.

Phew, we should organize a public boycott so Gearbox will release the early builds.

[Altered Reality]

Fox, on 31 August 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

By "supporting" you mean funding lawsuits to make sure no Duke titles will ever shed light in the future.

I mean funding lawsuits to make sure that THERE WILL BE Duke titles in the future.

Fox, on 31 August 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Phew, we should organize a public boycott

And do what?

[icecoldduke]

Altered Reality, on 31 August 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

I am absolutely sure of this because in 1999 I shared a couple of screenshots of a Hollywood Holocaust remake for Quake2 I was working on, and I got a cease and desist email from George. So I ceased and desisted.

It's amazing how quickly people forget stuff like this .

[TheZombieKiller]

[Player Lin]

Still buying new DN games but boycott anything else from Gearbox Shovelware, but the trap still on there...

[Tea Monster]

Altered Reality, on 31 August 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Gearbox is acting exactly like 3DRealms would, if the situations were reversed. I am absolutely sure of this because in 1999 I shared a couple of screenshots of a Hollywood Holocaust remake for Quake2 I was working on, and I got a cease and desist email from George. So I ceased and desisted.

This. 3DR were famous for this kind of crap back when DNF was in production. There were shedloads of mods on Source, UT and other platlforms that were all C&D'd. The great thing about the new 3DR was that they seemed to be a lot more willing to let modders do their thing.

Now that Gearbox have taken the franchise over, that will all go back to how it was. The Cataclysm mod showed how that will play out in the future.

Any new game will more than likely release without mod tools as well, so that is the end of the line for Duke modding. 8 bit or GTFO.

[TheZombieKiller]

Yeah, that's the worst part. As soon as 3DR turns around and changes, they no longer have the Duke IP.

[PikaCommando]

Altered Reality, on 31 August 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

in 1999 I shared a couple of screenshots of a Hollywood Holocaust remake for Quake2 I was working on

Do you still have those screenshots by chance? Sounds like it's gonna kick ass.


I'm guessing the sharing of information would be illegal too, so what do we do from now on? Just celebrate DN3D usermaps until we all die? Gearbox is finding people to make a new Duke Nukem, but the only game I like from them is Half-Life: Opposing Force so I ain't expecting any quality from them.

[Altered Reality]

PikaCommando, on 01 September 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

Do you still have those screenshots by chance? Sounds like it's gonna kick ass.

Unfortunately not. They were on a hard drive that suffered a head crash in late 2000.