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Build engine games general

User is offline   High Treason 

  • 1,001

#61

SW and Blood use a different method as far as I remember.

SW I think moves the RoR sectors to the location they appear to be in at map load time, Blood leaves them where they are. I don't know about RR.

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor
  • 3,394

#62

There's a viewportal based method in eduke that's at least half implemented. It'll ultimately be used to retro-fit the original maps for things like transparent water without actually needing to modify the map files IIRC.

Quote

Making EDuke32 an universal platform for Build games would be nice, but we still miss Blood...

From what I've been told, SW and RR shouldn't be too much trouble to port over to eduke given the source code is available. However as Daedolon consistently mentioned to me, the engine code for Blood was forked from the standard Duke/SW/RR/Nam variant fairly early on, such that it would be completely unpractical for someone working for free in their spare time to make an accurate port of it using the eduke engine. Things like physics, the sound system etc..

As with projects like Blood TC, you could just try to get as close as possible with what we currently have, which many might consider acceptable, but it's not quite the same.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
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This post has been edited by Mickey C: 10 May 2014 - 10:51 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Duke4 Thot Patrol
  • 3,852

#63

SW and RR aren't impossible, but someone would just have to want to do all that work. It's a big fucking headache.
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User is online   MetHy 

  • 1,430

#64

SW already has some jonof, swp and redux. I would love to play a port of the Redneck Rampage series though, especially Rides Again (and perhaps it would make more people realize how underrated it is).

Though I think more than RR, it's Powerslave I'd love to see.
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#65

Whine moment. ;)

Is it just me or is Shadow Warrior harder than Duke3D? Even the basic ninjas can be dangerous if you don't deal with them quickly. The beginning of the first level (I mean the very beginning before you get the uzi in the truck) gets me often, since I only have shurikens and I'm not fast enough to kill them with the katana.

Also, shadow ninjas. If you're hit by them, you're (almost) dead. Of course the best way of dealing with them is to kill them as quickly as possible, but that's not always possible... And they appear in the FIRST level! I feel like a chicken for using saves to deal with them. :dukecigar:

Finally, even though there's that Build engine issue with the mouse control, I actually think this game (and Blood) were sorta meant to be played with mouse because of the grenade launcher and the sticky bombs. I use autoaim even with mouse because the enemies are quite hard to hit even though you aim correctly (although obviously you aren't supposed to). They were released after Quake, and Quake featured full mouse aiming so this makes more sense.
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

  • 390

#66

I would say Shadow Warrior is a bit harder than Duke Nukem 3D... I play ONLY with keyboard. I don't play any of the DOS based games with a mouse really. This includes Quake... now Quake II and up, I do play with Mouse. I don't remember any difficulty I could attribute to playing Shadow Warrior without a mouse though.

MrBlackCat

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This post has been edited by MrBlackCat: 01 June 2014 - 10:07 AM

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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#67

View PostMrBlackCat, on 01 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

I would say Shadow Warrior is a bit harder than Duke Nukem 3D... I play ONLY with keyboard. I don't play any of the DOS based games with a mouse really. This includes Quake... now Quake II and up, I do play with Mouse. I don't remember any difficulty I could attribute to playing Shadow Warrior without a mouse though.

MrBlackCat


Cool. I tried playing Shadow Warrior both with keyboard and K/M. With keyboard it's a little harder because aiming is less precise and the enemies are fast. But I'm used to keyboard controls because that's how I played Duke3D and DOS Doom back when I was a kid. It's not too difficult to adjust to WASD, though.

Maybe I should create another thread about the saves...
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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,488

#68

View PostMrBlackCat, on 01 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

I would say Shadow Warrior is a bit harder than Duke Nukem 3D... I play ONLY with keyboard. I don't play any of the DOS based games with a mouse really. This includes Quake... now Quake II and up, I do play with Mouse. I don't remember any difficulty I could attribute to playing Shadow Warrior without a mouse though.

MrBlackCat

How do you kill the ghosts in shadow warrior with a keyboard only?

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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#69

View PostHank, on 01 June 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

How do you kill the ghosts in shadow warrior with a keyboard only?


It's a bit annoying, but it's a game of waiting until they're more or less aligned with my aim, then I press the keys to correct it and shoot them. I use Riot Gun and Uzi like most. If they're moving about crazily I don't even bother going after them, I wait until they reappear because they slow down and become vulnerable.
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

  • 390

#70

View PostHank, on 01 June 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

How do you kill the ghosts in shadow warrior with a keyboard only?



View PostDuke of Hazzard, on 01 June 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

It's a bit annoying, but it's a game of waiting until they're more or less aligned with my aim, then I press the keys to correct it and shoot them. I use Riot Gun and Uzi like most. If they're moving about crazily I don't even bother going after them, I wait until they reappear because they slow down and become vulnerable.
Yep... I still aim with the keyboard. I just don't chase them down while trying to aim. I just try to use the environment to cause them to enter my line of fire.

MrBlackCat

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This post has been edited by MrBlackCat: 01 June 2014 - 01:31 PM

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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,488

#71

View PostMrBlackCat, on 01 June 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Yep... I still aim with the keyboard. I just don't chase them down while trying to aim. I just try to use the environment to cause them to enter my line of fire.

MrBlackCat

Interesting. Considering their damage from a single red blast, ability to wander through walls, sneaking up from behind and attacking in groups - I'm impressed. ;)

The things I don't know could fill libraries.
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#72

Just did a run of the first episode of SW on normal (I Have No Fear) and my biggest problem weren't the ghosts but those big brown rippers, I was out of ammo for other weapons so I had to use missiles, and it seems the missiles clip right through them, on more than one occasion I fired a missile head on and missed the ripper because the missile flew through him.

The shadow ninjas are much harder to kill with keyboard than the ghosts.
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

  • 390

#73

View PostHank, on 01 June 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Interesting. Considering their damage from a single red blast, ability to wander through walls, sneaking up from behind and attacking in groups - I'm impressed. ;)
Well, I have completed the game without taking damage from enemies. :dukecigar: (with many many saves and re-loads)

MrBlackCat

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
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  #74

View PostDuke of Hazzard, on 01 June 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Just did a run of the first episode of SW on normal (I Have No Fear) and my biggest problem weren't the ghosts but those big brown rippers, I was out of ammo for other weapons so I had to use missiles, and it seems the missiles clip right through them, on more than one occasion I fired a missile head on and missed the ripper because the missile flew through him.

Generally in a BUILD game, with a non-hitscan projectile, you want to aim for the feet because the hitscan radius will be calculated from the sprite's actual coordinate point, which is on the floor.
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#75

View PostHendricks266, on 01 June 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Generally in a BUILD game, with a non-hitscan projectile, you want to aim for the feet because the hitscan radius will be calculated from the sprite's actual coordinate point, which is on the floor.


Unfortunately I couldn't do that because I was playing with keyboard, but thanks for the tip.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

  • 449

#76

View PostDuke of Hazzard, on 01 June 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Is it just me or is Shadow Warrior harder than Duke3D?

I have always assumed that SW was intended to be harder by the developers, and was meant for experienced Duke3D players. I have no idea if it was actually designed that way, but indeed SW is a bit harder.

Then again, some of the weapons in Shadow Warrior are somewhat more powerful than those in Duke's arsenal, so maybe the enemies were scaled up accordingly.

Also while it's true for both Duke3D and SW, in SW it really helps to find as many secrets as possible and use them to your advantage.

As for mouse aiming, Shadow Warrior was definitely dseigned with that as a viable control mode, since it even includes the option to turn off auto aim. I have this impression that the level design in SW is more suitable for the mouse freelook mode, whereas Duke Nukem 3D seems to play equally well with the mouse or with keyboard only. It's not about the aiming difficulty, but the layout of the level.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#77

SW is one of the most arcadey FPSes of the 90s.
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#78

View PostMrFlibble, on 02 June 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

I have always assumed that SW was intended to be harder by the developers, and was meant for experienced Duke3D players. I have no idea if it was actually designed that way, but indeed SW is a bit harder.

Then again, some of the weapons in Shadow Warrior are somewhat more powerful than those in Duke's arsenal, so maybe the enemies were scaled up accordingly.

Also while it's true for both Duke3D and SW, in SW it really helps to find as many secrets as possible and use them to your advantage.

As for mouse aiming, Shadow Warrior was definitely dseigned with that as a viable control mode, since it even includes the option to turn off auto aim. I have this impression that the level design in SW is more suitable for the mouse freelook mode, whereas Duke Nukem 3D seems to play equally well with the mouse or with keyboard only. It's not about the aiming difficulty, but the layout of the level.



My skills are rusty so that's why I'm having trouble. I hadn't touched an FPS game for years.

I actually had the impression the SW weapons are weaker. The Riot Gun needs more shots to kill than Duke's Shotgun, and missiles don't always result in death for the enemies (while in Duke the RPG is almost an uber weapon). I think it's because the enemies have more hitpoints, especially the Rippers and the upgraded ninjas. (although the equivalent of the Ripper in Duke3D would be the Protector Drone, which has similar strength and is arguably more dangerous)

This post has been edited by Duke of Hazzard: 03 June 2014 - 08:46 AM

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User is online   Jblade 

  • 1,418

#79

Actually the enemies in Shadow Warrior don't really have much health at all, the highest standard enemy is the brown/red Ripper who has 500 health (and the mini-snake who has about 1000 IIRC) The guns don't do much damage but they don't need to since the majority of enemies have low health values. The GL is much more powerful than the missile launcher and can do up to about 140 damage - the Riotgun fires 11 shots that do 4 damage each, so 1 shot is less powerful than Duke's shotty (but of course the alt-fire means it'll do enough damage to kill the majority of enemies you face assuming they all connect)
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#80

It may be a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway.

Can Shadow Warrior load custom grp files without exteranl applications? I know Blood can, but I searched and searched and found nothing on SW.

Also, how to build a rff file? KGROUP does the job just fine for grp files, but I can't find a tool that builds rff files. Seems most people are only interested in extracting them. ;)

The reason I'm asking is that I want to pack Cryptic Passage for Blood and Twin Dragon for SW in a single file, for convenience. I only own the GOG versions and those are a mess, I don't know which file does what most of the time.
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User is offline   Corvin 

  • King of the Lamers
  • 83

#81

Blood: use BARF to make a RFF. I doubt you can do it for CP tho and have it run.

SW: use any of the grp tools...
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#82

View PostCorvin, on 04 June 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Blood: use BARF to make a RFF. I doubt you can do it for CP tho and have it run.

SW: use any of the grp tools...


Thanks.

That's the brickwall I thought I would hit... I don't think CRYPTIC.EXE can load a rff file that's not the plain BLOOD.RFF.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God
  • 871

#83

CRYPTIC.EXE only changes the ART files around and launches the INI file. It's not integral in any shape or form.

You can use this batch file to do the same exact thing:
http://www.the-postm...s/crypticfix.7z

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User is offline   Corvin 

  • King of the Lamers
  • 83

#84

You mean the batch will do the same thing as CP EXE. Does that solve the problem he wants to fix, that is making an RFF for it?


PS: Here's the default install list of OUWB (non GOG) but off the CD: http://dukertcm.com/...s.html#bludcomp


This post has been edited by Corvin: 04 June 2014 - 06:20 PM

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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God
  • 871

#85

It does exactly what CRYPTIC.EXE does.

Lunick: I can't believe you can pre-order Duke Nukem 3D in 2016
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#86

Thanks Corvin and Daedolon.

I'm running the game through DOSBox. I noticed SW from GOG comes with a special AUTOEXEC.BAT section in the conf file that allows you to choose between the main game and its different expansions. I wanted to create one for Blood to use a single shortcut, but I don't know how to do it.

EDIT: One of the more annoying things about GOG is that they don't sell the whole game. The image for OUWB is missing a lot of files, and the music is in lossy ogg. Granted, most of the files on the CD are unnecessary nowadays (TEN executables, for example), but they're providing a subpar service (especially in the case of music) for the sake of lower file sizes, when these old DOS games don't go beyond 500MB in most cases.

This post has been edited by Duke of Hazzard: 05 June 2014 - 01:44 PM

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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God
  • 871

#87

The TEN executables won't install from the OUWB CD anyway if you're using the installers, as the installer only crashes. They must be copied by hand.

Lunick: I can't believe you can pre-order Duke Nukem 3D in 2016
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User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#88

Apparently it's impossible to make DOS Shadow Warrior load a custom .grp file? I've tried -g command in DOSBox without results.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

  • 449

#89

In case somone's interested, I posted a small guide on how to set up and run the 3dfx version of Shadow Warrior shareware in DOSBox (same applies for the full version, I suppose the registered patch should work with the Steam release):
http://www.dosgames....pic.php?t=20216
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User is offline   Skulldog 

  • 94

#90

Nam has been released on steam.
http://store.steampo...com/app/329650/

This post has been edited by Skulldog: 06 November 2014 - 01:47 PM

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