[Ninety-Six]

FistMarine, on 10 December 2022 - 02:54 AM, said:

I am also curious what are people's opinions on slaughter maps?

I used to dislike them in concept because I believed it was all pure trial-and-error, which as I've said many times, I only find purely frustrating and just bad game design.

And then I beat BTSX's MAP32 on Ultra-Violence+, so apparently slaughtermaps can be made in such a way that they're beatable on reaction and not foreknowledge. Just most of them aren't because it's easier to make cool looking vistas than actually balance to not make savescumming a requirement.

I don't care if they're difficult and beating it is unlikely on a player's first attempt, but I draw the line at making saves mandatory.

[NightFright]

Lunick, on 10 December 2022 - 03:49 AM, said:

Ugh, I guess it makes sense as it's just a side project but that's a bit of a wait.

Gotta agree, and I doubt it takes a full year to design nine levels, even if you polish them like crazy. Also I kinda doubt Romero is so busy he can't finish a small-scale project like this in due time. I guess it's rather the symbolic date that's relevant here. Since it couldn't be for the 25th anniversary, it had to be the 30th. Also, there'll probably be another Collector's Edition which will take time to produce.

Anyway, don't wanna complain too much - it means we'll have at least two Romero projects to look forward to.

[NNC]

One thing I want to see from Romero is a complete redux of episode 1. With 9 levels of E1M4b and E1M8b type. That would make his modern day work complete. A techbase episode, Sigil I-II, and a 32-level Doom II megawad.

[NightFright]

Like a "Doom shareware, but 30y later"? Great idea. KDITD was arguably the best episode, anyway. If I replay classic Doom, it's usually that one, in a vanilla-like port like Chocolate, Crispy or Woof, for maximum nostalgia. A more modern approach wouldn't hurt, though.

[Morpheus Kitami]

I can't say I have too strong negative feelings towards slaughter wads, but I do note that those arenas where you kill a lot of enemies always feel lazy. Sure, they're cool the first time you see one, and they could very well be well-drawn, but once you've played one, you've played most.

Its been ages since I played Hexen, but I generally liked Heretic more than Doom. Though I have to admit the enemy roster is weaker and some of the weapons feel more useless than anything else. Even knowing how the Firemace is supposed to be used doesn't help it any. The music and the levels are something that have always felt better in Heretic to me. E3 is definitely the weakest episode though, and the final boss is kind of meh.

[NightFright]

Someone created XG MIDIs for most of Doom's ep.1 music, to be used with the S-YXG50 synth.

https://www.doomworl...um/topic/132908

Those tracks have never sounded better!

[ReaperAA]

FistMarine, on 10 December 2022 - 02:54 AM, said:

I am also curious what are people's opinions on slaughter maps?

Really depends. When I was a new player, I despised them. But over the years, my opinion has softened. It's still not my favorite genre of maps, but there are definitely some slaughtermaps that I have enjoyed. The one mentioned by Ninety-Six (BTSX E1 Map32) is a good one. Valiant's Map31 is also one that I enjoyed. The later maps of Overboard (new game + versions) and likewise some slaughterish maps in Going Down I enjoyed. With all that said, for maps that have different stages or set-pieces, I would recommend to save before and after you do a set piece. Since many of these are designed in the form of a puzzle and you need to find the correct solution to the problem, otherwise you might die or take more damage than need (even if it seems that you didn't make any apparent mistake).

FistMarine, on 10 December 2022 - 02:54 AM, said:

One last thing: What are people's opinions on Heretic and Hexen? I personally really like them and wish one day they would get remastered with new official content, maybe Nightdive will remaster them next year or something. Last time I've beaten the original DOS versions of Heretic and Hexen without dying at all (on skill 4). Yes, in Hexen's case, I did with all 3 classes. I'm obviously talking about the original levels/episodes which I find more replayable, I haven't played their expansions since many years ago but I know they were a lot more difficult.

Heretic and Hexen are great games with some unfortunate flaws in each of them. Especially Hexen. I feel it has one of the best atmosphere of any sprite-based fps out there (I'll fight you guys to it), but is let down by dumb switch hunting and lack of variety in combat.

If you haven't played Faithless Trilogy, I would highly recommend to do so, given that it feels like a perfect blend of both Heretic and Hexen.

[Ninety-Six]

ReaperAA, on 12 December 2022 - 08:30 PM, said:

I would recommend to save before and after you do a set piece. Since many of these are designed in the form of a puzzle and you need to find the correct solution to the problem, otherwise you might die or take more damage than need (even if it seems that you didn't make any apparent mistake).

There is one flaw with this, and that's if you discover much later that you did it wrong right at the start. The whole "puzzle" element is pure trial-and-error, and because of that say you use something you needed later. An invuln, BFG cells, one-use teleports, etc. You had no way to predict that after 12 archviles 50 cybderdemons would spawn in and you already used the cells and BFG ammo against the Archies like a normal person would. Well you have to either start the map over or reload an even earlier save if you have one.

[Ninety-Six]

I've noticed a trend on doomworld lately. When I scroll through the threads and keeping tabs on projects I have an interest in, sometimes I'll see the OP talk about some kind of music restriction (That's about usage rather than composition, i.e. unchanged, repeating songs) and then several people will complain about it.


For once I'm with them on this. DW has a lot of A+ composers and that's not something I've ever complained about or ever would be able to. More music, borrowed or otherwise, is always welcome IMO.

[Malgon]

I'd read about the multi-monitor setup on the wiki in the last few years but hadn't seen a video of it actually running. It's pretty fascinating to see considering how far this predates multi-monitor support in games, and also the obscure and interesting way in which it was implemented. Very cool indeed!

[ReaperAA]

I just recently played Myhouse.wad (actually a pk3 file, wad is just the part of title of this). It's the most surreal Doom wad I have ever played and nothing like any other Doom wad. This map is art.

[Ninety-Six]

I've kept an eye on that thread but stopped so I can get a chance to play it myself.

From what I have seen, I genuinely have to wonder if the poster's deceased friend really started this in the early 00s and all he did was "polish" it, or if that's an ARG-esque cover story to add to the map's mystique and atmosphere.

[ReaperAA]

Ninety-Six, on 27 March 2023 - 12:05 PM, said:

I genuinely have to wonder if the poster's deceased friend really started this in the early 00s and all he did was "polish" it, or if that's an ARG-esque cover story to add to the map's mystique and atmosphere.

After fully investigating the map and the backstory, I like mostly (but not entirely) sure that is a cover story to add to map's mystique.

[Ninety-Six]

Does anyone know if it's possible/how to load Doom levels with Freedoom graphics/music and vice-versa? I know they're quite similar (by design) but I still think it would be a cool way to re-experience the levels.

[Morpheus Kitami]

I was going to say you could just load in the other as a PWAD while one is selected as an IWAD, but that doesn't work. I know it's supposed to be possible, since I remember reading it somewhere. Not a very easy way of doing it, but you could make a copy of each IWAD, removing anything unrelated to the levels and try that. (I'd try it myself, but SLADE hasn't been working right for me for a while now)

[Ninety-Six]

Morpheus Kitami, on 29 March 2023 - 07:29 AM, said:

I was going to say you could just load in the other as a PWAD while one is selected as an IWAD, but that doesn't work.

Yeah, that was the first thing I tried, since I remember reading that you could do something similar with Chex Quest.

Morpheus Kitami, on 29 March 2023 - 07:29 AM, said:

Not a very easy way of doing it, but you could make a copy of each IWAD, removing anything unrelated to the levels and try that. (I'd try it myself, but SLADE hasn't been working right for me for a while now)

Yeah, that's my "if-nothing-else-works" plan. I'm hoping to see someone knows of a method that avoids doing that, because something something hex editor Iwad/Pwad

[Morpheus Kitami]

It seems like there was a tool made for just this kind of this, found it in a link here. You can also snag the ripped Freedoom levels from another link there.

And is it just me, or is it annoying that some of this stuff is apparently just unlabeled on a not easy to find place? It does seem like occasionally I played something that I only found thanks to Doom MP servers, but never found it anywhere else.

[jkas789]

Obligatory Civvie11 post:



Was No Rest for the Living that good? I remember playing it a year or so ago and it didn't really blow me out of the water tbh.

[ReaperAA]

jkas789, on 01 April 2023 - 08:18 AM, said:

Was No Rest for the Living that good? I remember playing it a year or so ago and it didn't really blow me out of the water tbh.

I would say that it's, in my opinion, the best of the official Doom mapsets (as in, I consider it above the 4 iwads and Sigil in quality), but it does feel tame and simple compared to community wads being made nowadays.

[Ninety-Six]

NRFTL is absolutely what I consider the best of the official levels, and most community levels too honestly. It also has Hell Mountain, which is my favorite Doom level of all time.

[Ninety-Six]

Been playing through the official IWAD stuff (+expansions like TML and NRFTL, plus Sigil because it's basically official) again while I recover from surgery, since it's much lower intensity gaming while I am still recovering from wrist surgery. And I have to say: TNT gets better each time I play it.


This has been on my mind for a while, but I have time to kill right now. I've really started to gel with TNT the past few years (probably one of the reasons I feel kind of let-down by TNT:D just kind of going off in a completely different direction. Especially after reading what Devalaous had to say about the original vision for TNT:R. It sounded like it would have really tried to capture the original vibe which I kinda want, now. I have half a mind to reach out to him after Forever drops to see if it's possible to string together rejected and "official" levels into something that would almost resemble what TNT:R was supposed to be. Not even for a proper release just a glimpse into what could have been). The whole package isn't perfect by any stretch; episode 3 really does have just some trash levels (I really hate Administration Center and Baron's Den. Extremely long slogs with absolutely abysmal flow. Though I will give Admin some credit, because I like the final area. Having to kill imps and a cyberdemon as dark shadowy silhouettes against a blood-red sky is a striking image. Too bad the rest of the level kinda sucks). At least in the first half. It does get better in the second half, with Heck being a fun if derivative romp, and Ballistyx probably being the Helliest classic Doom ever officially got, with really cool setpieces like the lost souls in a burning black abyss.

E1 has its ups and downs; Wormhole is one of my favorite levels of all time, and Prison...is not that. I dig Stronghold though. It's a bastard but it's mostly a fair challenge so I'm happy. The very first level is also fun for being able to basically Tyson the whole level, and turn 90% of all enemies into gibs. Good times.


Episode 2, though, episode 2 is something special. I've always loved the particular atmosphere TNT's E2 has had, and that love has only grown over the past few years. There's really nothing quite like it anywhere else. I can't even really describe it, but the combination of that cool sky, the nighttime aesthetic, and the gratuitous outdoors just combines together in an awesome way. It elevates levels that I would otherwise consider mid (like Nukage Processing) to a higher status just because of it (and also marks down the one level that is set entirely indoors, Mill).

It helps that most of my favorite levels are in this episode, too. Special shoutout to Steel Works, which in addition to having peak atmosphere with its almost dreamlike music, is also a fun time mowing down zombies with the chaingun like you're mowing the lawn. But I also really like Shipping/Respawning, and Central Processing (best song in the game too, IMO), and Crater, and even Deepest Reaches. It's a bizarre left turn of a level, but I dunno, something about the mostly "naturalistic" environments of a barren rock in space kinda does it for me. If we count the secret levels as part of Episode 2, then Pharaoh is another all-time favorite, and Caribbean is really good, too. About the only level I really don't like is Dead Zone, but at least it's over quick. Kinda like Habitat.

Speaking of, I don't even hate Habitat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to call it a good level, but I don't think it warrants the level of memedom the level has achieved. There's much worse even within that very episode. At least it's very brief. It's not a half-an-hour slog.

[ReaperAA]

Ninety-Six, on 17 April 2023 - 05:20 AM, said:

Been playing through the official IWAD stuff (+expansions like TML and NRFTL, plus Sigil because it's basically official) again while I recover from surgery, since it's much lower intensity gaming while I am still recovering from wrist surgery. And I have to say: TNT gets better each time I play it.

This has been on my mind for a while, but I have time to kill right now. I've really started to gel with TNT the past few years (probably one of the reasons I feel kind of let-down by TNT:D just kind of going off in a completely different direction. Especially after reading what Devalaous had to say about the original vision for TNT:R. It sounded like it would have really tried to capture the original vibe which I kinda want, now. I have half a mind to reach out to him after Forever drops to see if it's possible to string together rejected and "official" levels into something that would almost resemble what TNT:R was supposed to be. Not even for a proper release just a glimpse into what could have been). The whole package isn't perfect by any stretch; episode 3 really does have just some trash levels (I really hate Administration Center and Baron's Den. Extremely long slogs with absolutely abysmal flow. Though I will give Admin some credit, because I like the final area. Having to kill imps and a cyberdemon as dark shadowy silhouettes against a blood-red sky is a striking image. Too bad the rest of the level kinda sucks). At least in the first half. It does get better in the second half, with Heck being a fun if derivative romp, and Ballistyx probably being the Helliest classic Doom ever officially got, with really cool setpieces like the lost souls in a burning black abyss.

Here is to hoping that you get better soon. Now I don't know if you know about this and how much interested you are into this, but sometime ago I downloaded a couple of very old betas of TNT Devilution, from like 2011-2012. This was when Revilution wasn't conceived yet and it's few maps were also part of Devilution. Each of them have like 3-ish maps (different in each beta). One of the betas contains a very old version of Revilution's Map11: Transduction (when it was called Wormholding). The other beta contains an old version of what ended up becoming Devilution's Map04: Subterra Incognita. And then there are maps that never made it into either Revilution or Devilution. Maybe they will make their way to Forever when that releases? They weren't super interesting to me, but were decent maps nonetheless.

I'll have to see if I still have them in my computer or not. But they are definitely out there. One of those betas was pretty easily found on the net, the other not so easily.

Ninety-Six, on 17 April 2023 - 05:20 AM, said:

E1 has its ups and downs; Wormhole is one of my favorite levels of all time, and Prison...is not that. I dig Stronghold though. It's a bastard but it's mostly a fair challenge so I'm happy. The very first level is also fun for being able to basically Tyson the whole level, and turn 90% of all enemies into gibs. Good times.

Episode 2, though, episode 2 is something special. I've always loved the particular atmosphere TNT's E2 has had, and that love has only grown over the past few years. There's really nothing quite like it anywhere else. I can't even really describe it, but the combination of that cool sky, the nighttime aesthetic, and the gratuitous outdoors just combines together in an awesome way. It elevates levels that I would otherwise consider mid (like Nukage Processing) to a higher status just because of it (and also marks down the one level that is set entirely indoors, Mill).

It helps that most of my favorite levels are in this episode, too. Special shoutout to Steel Works, which in addition to having peak atmosphere with its almost dreamlike music, is also a fun time mowing down zombies with the chaingun like you're mowing the lawn. But I also really like Shipping/Respawning, and Central Processing (best song in the game too, IMO), and Crater, and even Deepest Reaches. It's a bizarre left turn of a level, but I dunno, something about the mostly "naturalistic" environments of a barren rock in space kinda does it for me. If we count the secret levels as part of Episode 2, then Pharaoh is another all-time favorite, and Caribbean is really good, too. About the only level I really don't like is Dead Zone, but at least it's over quick. Kinda like Habitat.

Speaking of, I don't even hate Habitat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to call it a good level, but I don't think it warrants the level of memedom the level has achieved. There's much worse even within that very episode. At least it's very brief. It's not a half-an-hour slog.

I definitely agree with Map01 and Map09. Map01 is imho the best starting map of the 4 iwads and Map09 may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I don't mind it and it is definitely a memorable map. Though Revilution's Fortress of Bullets is definitely a better take on the idea, with enemies being able to flank you from multiple directions.

Although we do have different opinions on E2's maps. I actually really like Nukage Processing and Dead Zone, but don't really like Crater (mainly because of how barren it is with barely any monsters for the amount of space there is) and Pharoah (not sure why, but it didn't click with me. The custom Egyptian textures are also really ugly). But where I do agree is that I too find E2 to be the strongest episode in TNT.


And lastly, I agree with Habitat not being the worst map in TNT. Both Administration Center and Baron's Den are far more annoying than Habitat.

[Ninety-Six]

ReaperAA, on 17 April 2023 - 08:52 PM, said:

One of the betas contains a very old version of Revilution's Map11: Transduction (when it was called Wormholding).

I remember when Kyka came back, the TNTR team basically all ended up having a public reminiscence of its development before it fell apart and Jaws had to take over. Lots of questions about TNTR were answered, and quite a few centered around that very map. Not only was it fascinating to learn that it didn't always have the horror bend, it was finally explained exactly why it had a recreation of Wormhole's central area. That being, it was meant to be the first Gateway mentioned in Evilution's manual, the one that every Marine managed to blast the hell out of every demon that came through.

It also explained why the "asteroids" had a shipping port: the spacey sky was never meant to represent asteroids with old bases. It was meant to be the dark side of Io, where the UAC originally set up shop before making the "new" facilities seen in TNT. That had always bothered me, how the second episode just didn't make sense (Somehow TNTD has exactly the same problem).

ReaperAA, on 17 April 2023 - 08:52 PM, said:

Though Revilution's Fortress of Bullets is definitely a better take on the idea, with enemies being able to flank you from multiple directions.

Yeah, FoB is a favorite of mine too, and I agree it's better. It took what made Stronghold already fun and managed to expand on all the good parts. Every so often I spin up TNTR just to play that level again (and a few others).

ReaperAA, on 17 April 2023 - 08:52 PM, said:

but don't really like Crater (mainly because of how barren it is with barely any monsters for the amount of space there is)

I can totally understand that. What makes the barren outdoors work for me is, how would I describe it...

It's like being at a party, or a big family christmas, or some other big event like that where you're inside a single location with a bunch of noisy people, and then taking a step outside for some fresh air and there's a calming silence.

I'm not trying to read too deeply into it here like I did with DN3D's Dark Side, it's just that that's the sort of vibe Crater's outdoor area gives me. All the monsters are in the base, because that's where all the human flesh is. The titular crater is a break in the action, a breather both in a level progression sense (sandwiched between Storage Facility and Nukage Processing), as well as within the level itself since the opening bits are packed with monsters, and so is the subsequent underground section. It's a breather, and it also allows you to appreciate the fancy sky. The outdoor sections of the later levels are more action-packed, which I think justifies having the first nighttime excursion be slower.

Also the underground section looks cool to me, being mostly dark but having those trenched lights off to the side. It's a cool visual.


Though again, that's just what makes the level work for me.

[ReaperAA]

Ninety-Six, on 18 April 2023 - 04:37 AM, said:

I remember when Kyka came back, the TNTR team basically all ended up having a public reminiscence of its development before it fell apart and Jaws had to take over. Lots of questions about TNTR were answered, and quite a few centered around that very map. Not only was it fascinating to learn that it didn't always have the horror bend, it was finally explained exactly why it had a recreation of Wormhole's central area. That being, it was meant to be the first Gateway mentioned in Evilution's manual, the one that every Marine managed to blast the hell out of every demon that came through.

It also explained why the "asteroids" had a shipping port: the spacey sky was never meant to represent asteroids with old bases. It was meant to be the dark side of Io, where the UAC originally set up shop before making the "new" facilities seen in TNT. That had always bothered me, how the second episode just didn't make sense (Somehow TNTD has exactly the same problem).

Yup, the version of Transduction (or Wormholding) in the old beta didn't had the horror bend and is quite more upbeat and action focused.

Anyway I found both the old betas, which I have attached in zip file. One is from 2011, that contains the old Transduction, and the other from 2013:

Attached File(s)

•  TNT2_old_betas.zip (6.11MB)
  Number of downloads: 69

[NNC]

Ninety-Six, on 02 April 2023 - 10:25 AM, said:

NRFTL is absolutely what I consider the best of the official levels, and most community levels too honestly. It also has Hell Mountain, which is my favorite Doom level of all time.

March of the Demons (secret map) and Baron's Banquette (the penultimate map with cacos at the top of the spiral staircase) are my favourites, but Hell Mountain was pretty solid too.

Sigil Map6 (Unspeakable Persecution, or whatever it's name was) was my favourite Doom map of all time. Especially the first half.

[jkas789]

So... about the current drama happening in the zdoom forums, am I the only one experiencing schadenfreude? Because it has been really funny seeing the community implode and everyone coming out of the woodwork saying how they all knew Doom moderators where shit.

[X-Vector]

Considering all the good stuff that comes out of the Doom modding scene, I don't think wringing hands over all this is appropriate.
One thing that strikes me as off-kilter though is seeing the abundance of preferred pronoun users on the moderating staff and how frequently people are referred to as "she".Seems a bit of a far cry from a team of cut-off jeans wearing nerdy dudes creating digital carnage in a Texas office building.

[NightFright]

jkas789, on 19 April 2023 - 07:54 AM, said:

So... about the current drama happening in the zdoom forums, am I the only one experiencing schadenfreude? [...]

Huh, did I miss anything? What gives? Are you referring to this?

[jkas789]

X-Vector, on 20 April 2023 - 01:50 AM, said:

Considering all the good stuff that comes out of the Doom modding scene, I don't think wringing hands over all this is appropriate.
One thing that strikes me as off-kilter though is seeing the abundance of preferred pronoun users on the moderating staff and how frequently people are referred to as "she".Seems a bit of a far cry from a team of cut-off jeans wearing nerdy dudes creating digital carnage in a Texas office building.

I do. People are missing the point. This is not only about Marisa but also about:

1.- How the moderators tried to silence the issue, banned people who posted about it and where actively antagonistic.
2.- There is a fucking private group called Fun Police that is compromised of various moderators from zdoom and other communities/discord servers + potentially Doomworld. Said group shared info on what they considered "bad actors" and had a hand on cross forum/discord bans for several people. How in God's name is that in any way ok?

NightFright, on 20 April 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

Huh, did I miss anything? What gives? Are you referring to this?

Yes. I would suggest reading that thread, the Doomer Board thread , the response to all this mess by Caligari (who is a god damn consummate latin american politician apparenlty) and the chat logs of the Fun Police that are damning as fuck.

I for one am happy Rachael has gotten shit canned. I don't think this will change anything as the moderation team is staying the same (aside from Rachael, Weasel and Candice stepping down). And because Doomworld still exists and it has the same culture as the zdoom forums.

[Ninety-Six]

It was ienvitable. I was surprised to learn it was Marisa though, but not at all surprised to see the cover-up.