[leilei]

...with a grain of salt though like this guy

[MrFlibble]

deuxsonic, on 11 May 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

The Serious Sam games and Painkiller do this constantly in apparent interest of "classic FPS gameplay" when I really don't think more is necessarily better and the "classic FPS gameplay" that they're talking about had a smarter monster layout than just sending wave after wave pouring out of certain places in the map. Walk into some arena, door locks quickly behind you. Duke3d for example might have 100+ aliens in a map, but they're generally placed in a way that's fun to play through (obviously this isn't true of all user maps), it's not just spawning waves of monsters. How many fights with these huge back-to-back waves are memorable? It's freaky when it happens sparingly because you're not used to taking on say 10 monsters at once, but when that's all the game is is wave after wave of monsters, it starts feeling like a chore to kill everyone off each time. You start hating seeing big arena areas because the process has that grind feel.

I have played Will Rock extensively, and some Serious Sam. IMO Will Rock has a pretty good balance between the arena sections and the puzzle/exploration/obstacle course sections. Besides, the arenas are always spacey and in most cases, have enough variety in how they're decorated (many areas in the game took inspiration from real places from Classical Antiquity). Also many of the weapons are also specifically designed to deal with large numbers of enemies at once. Serious Sam does get tedious, especially on higher difficulty though.

However, I'm not sure that the same formula works/is appropriate for Doom.

[Kathy]

So Nvidia market Doom4 batter than id/Bethesda...

[TheZombieKiller]

Doom 4 is pretty great so far, I'm enjoying it. Too bad they didn't fix the classic maps though

[HulkNukem]

Are the classic maps at least fun to play?

[icecoldduke]

TheZombieKiller, on 12 May 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Doom 4 is pretty great so far, I'm enjoying it. Too bad they didn't fix the classic maps though

What would that have gained them to fix the texture alignment issues?

[HulkNukem]

icecoldduke, on 12 May 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

What would that have gained them to fix the texture alignment issues?

Respect and a sign of profesionalism?
I know it may not seem like much, but I akin it to going into a grocery store, and half the product is stocked upside down. It's a really easy fix that just takes a small amount of time to do and it ends up looking way better. It takes away from the experience when you see it.

[icecoldduke]

HulkNukem, on 12 May 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Respect and a sign of profesionalism?
I know it may not seem like much, but I akin it to going into a grocery store, and half the product is stocked upside down. It's a really easy fix that just takes a small amount of time to do and it ends up looking way better. It takes away from the experience when you see it.

Would those texture alignment issues cause you NOT to buy the game? Would it cause more people to buy the game if it got fixed? If no on both then its pointless . You can argue "its more professional", but what your asking for costs money and time to fix. And in all honesty, no one except for a select few are going to care about this.

Its never a good sign when people stop and stair at the art assets, that usually means they aren't having fun playing the game .

[HulkNukem]

icecoldduke, on 12 May 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Would those texture alignment issues cause you NOT to buy the game? Would it cause more people to buy the game if it got fixed? If no on both then its pointless . You can argue "its more professional", but what your asking for costs money and time to fix. And in all honesty, no one except for a select few are going to care about this.

I've seen a large number of people complaining about it on many different outlets.
Of course I would still buy the game, but these maps were used as marketing and they were clearly made last second as a "Hey look we love the old games! Respect us!" when they couldn't be assed to fix simple mistakes. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth in what could otherwise be a near-perfect experience and can leave some people wary, even more so considering they didn't give out review copies ahead of time, thus no reviews can be made beforehand.
The New Order and The Old Blood had the classic Wolfenstein maps done right, even if they were simpler, and they never even mentioned them beforehand, they were just fun easter eggs; hell, they even ported over items and enemies that actually worked! They were a bit funky, but they still worked.
And no, that startan texture isn't the only one that is messed up. There's several others, including a computer monitor, no lighting, etc etc.
It should take a single employee a regular 8 hour work day to fix any and all texture misalignments, if even that long.

[TheZombieKiller]

The switch that opens up the main "secret" section of E1M2 is also flipped horizontally. I have no idea how that one got through, it sticks out like a sore thumb

[icecoldduke]

HulkNukem, on 12 May 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

I've seen a large number of people complaining about it on many different outlets.
Of course I would still buy the game, but these maps were used as marketing and they were clearly made last second as a "Hey look we love the old games! Respect us!" when they couldn't be assed to fix simple mistakes. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth in what could otherwise be a near-perfect experience and can leave some people wary, even more so considering they didn't give out review copies ahead of time, thus no reviews can be made beforehand.
The New Order and The Old Blood had the classic Wolfenstein maps done right, even if they were simpler, and they never even mentioned them beforehand, they were just fun easter eggs; hell, they even ported over items and enemies that actually worked! They were a bit funky, but they still worked.
And no, that startan texture isn't the only one that is messed up. There's several others, including a computer monitor, no lighting, etc etc.

How many people are complaining about the texture alignment "fuckage"? Remember this game will sell over a million units, you take the amount of people that care / divided by the total units sold; you will see why Bethesda and Id don't give a shit .

[HulkNukem]

icecoldduke, on 12 May 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

How many people are complaining about the texture alignment "fuckage"? Remember this game will sell over a million units, you take the amount of people that care / divided by the total units sold; you will see why Bethesda and Id don't give a shit .

Yeah we should just all be silent when being asked to pay for a product and never criticize anything ever

[icecoldduke]

HulkNukem, on 12 May 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Yeah we should just all be silent when being asked to pay for a product and never criticize anything ever

I never said stay silent. On the contrary complain as loud as you want. The fact is no one at id Software will care because it doesn't hinder the units they will move. The math doesn't make sense for them to fix it. Will they fix it in the next patch? Who knows.

Another thing to note, you guys are playing the game before it got released. Who knows if there will be a updated day one patch when the game officially launches in 10 hours.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

icecoldduke, on 12 May 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

Another thing to note, you guys are playing the game before it got released. Who knows if there will be a updated day one patch when the game officially launches in 10 hours.

There shouldn't have to be. Is it really that hard to release something in working condition when it goes out the door? Did no one learn anything from the SimCity disaster?

[MusicallyInspired]

Criticism is not pointless unless it's not constructive. While it's about a relatively unimportant area of the game, it's still misrepresenting. It wouldn't stop me from buying it (assuming I make that choice down the road...after a much needed upgrade), but it's not pointless to bring it up.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

By the way, DooM 1 had arena areas too. E1M6. There's an area where the door shuts behind you and does not open again for 30 seconds, meanwhile you're cordoned in an area where there are masses of enemies. That, I believe, is the earliest known example of an "arena" in FPS gaming. E2M6 has this as well.

[Marphy Black]

Inspector Lagomorf, on 12 May 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

By the way, DooM 1 had arena areas too. E1M6. There's an area where the door shuts behind you and does not open again for 30 seconds, meanwhile you're cordoned in an area where there are masses of enemies.

The Doom engine has no capability of locking the player into an area for a specific amount of time. An obstacle either locks permanently or can be triggered open elsewhere. Aside from the boss levels, there are only two maps throughout all of Doom and Doom 2 where it is necessary to kill monsters to proceed: the Cyberdemon in E4M6 must be killed to lower the exit bars, and the Mancubi and Arachnotrons in MAP07 must (but not really) be killed to raise the exit steps. However, even the latter case is technically not true as the community discovered MAP07 can be beaten in a pacifist run.

[Danukem]

Meh, I'll buy it when it goes on sale at some later date, after some patches have come out.

[icecoldduke]

Inspector Lagomorf, on 12 May 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

There shouldn't have to be. Is it really that hard to release something in working condition when it goes out the door? Did no one learn anything from the SimCity disaster?

I present you..."the game industry" .

[Doom64hunter]

Inspector Lagomorf, on 12 May 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

There shouldn't have to be. Is it really that hard to release something in working condition when it goes out the door? Did no one learn anything from the SimCity disaster?

I don't get this complaint since the patch was downloadable during preload time for most people.
It essentially is "releasing something in working condition when it goes out the door". And usually these games are put up in stores weeks before the release, so I'm glad they actually used the remaining time until release to fix bugs.

[Kathy]

Quote

I present you..."the game industry"

So your answer is to be cynical and not complain? Those "old school" levels are half-assed. Does it matter in beth's earnings? Nope. Does it ruin the whole game? Nope. Does it look as a clever implementation and aesthetic of original game, making interchanging between old/new nostalgic and self-reflective journey; or an attempt to cross the "nostalgia" in a to-do list? Obviously the latter. Making mainstream product doesn't mean that everything needs to be cynical, money-driven and artless.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Marphy Black, on 12 May 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

The Doom engine has no capability of locking the player into an area for a specific amount of time.

We must not be talking about the same game. E1M6.

Doom Wikia said:

Essentials
Head north from the start point (A) and take the first walkway to the east. Follow the walkway into a large rectangular room and pick up the red keycard at the far end (. As you enter this room, the entrance will close behind you, then reopen after 30 seconds.

[Marphy Black]

Ah, I see what you mean now. That sector is a door that has a wait period after closing. Its logic is not tied to any monster spawns, and indeed, you can collect the red key without inducing any sort of monster attack. You can even simply block the door from closing to forego the waiting time altogether. This is much different from arena-type gameplay where you are forced locked in and have no choice but to completely eliminate waves of enemies before being able to proceed, ostensibly to another arena as the game goes.

[icecoldduke]

Kathy, on 12 May 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

So your answer is to be cynical and not complain? Those "old school" levels are half-assed. Does it matter in beth's earnings? Nope. Does it ruin the whole game? Nope. Does it look as a clever implementation and aesthetic of original game, making interchanging between old/new nostalgic and self-reflective journey; or an attempt to cross the "nostalgia" in a to-do list? Obviously the latter. Making mainstream product doesn't mean that everything needs to be cynical, money-driven and artless.

I'm not being cynical, I'm just telling you the reality of game development . I personally will be avoiding the Doom nostalgia areas of the game. No reason to scream about it, I hear the rest of the game is pretty fun.

[deuxsonic]

Remember that id did this crap job before with the Rage easter eggs. That was only a couple rooms of E1M1. Tim Willits thought the Arch-Vile display in their offices was the Revenant when he was hired to work at id as a DOOM mapper. It's fair to say they could not care less.

[MusicallyInspired]

ICD, your opinions annoy me and sometimes come across as incredibly patronizing....but that's ok. You're alright.

[----]

What I find much worse than any misaligned textures in secret levels or unlit Areas in eastereggs is the SP-gameplay.

Yes, I bought it and played it for 15 minutes into the SP campaign.

<mild spoilers>
The atmosphere is IMHO (!!!!) worse than in DooM 3 and the weapons feel like they nerfed some Nerf guns. The arenas lock you in, because the station's AI tells you "doors cannot be unlocked as long as demons are in there". And the gameplay in the Arenas wasn't fun. You hunt the demons around and, they shoot at you ... but it all fells completely off. Of Course, tastes are differnet, but in Shadow Warrior (2013) or Hard Reset the enemies came at you and felt like a real threat that you can counter with your katana and guns (and although the guns in SW were weak they feel stronger than in DooM).
In DooM they run around and don't really feel like attacking you, although the AI MIGHT (don't know) try to look smart by having the demons run around for strategic positions to attack you, but it feels more like they run around randomly and then stand still now and then to shoot at you. I found it boring and unengaging. Look, in Serious Sam it got boring and repetitive in the later Levels. But at least the arenas were interesting and had much better gameplay. DooM bored me in the second Arena. It is weird, the demons and your weapons feel weak and the gameplay seems off due to that.
</mild spoilers>

I will get a refund and rebuy it in 2 years during the summer sale for $4,99 or so.


All just my personal opinion, of course.

EDIT:
And no, it wasn't my System. The game ran really smooth and controlling the player (aim and movement) felt tight and neat.

EDIT 2:
The speed of the player is really good. That really feels old school.

[Malgon]

Managed to play for about an hour last night after unlocking it. I mainly messed around with the Video and Advanced options to see what had the most impact on the frame-rate, with reflections seeming to have the biggest hit when they appear. Turning them off saw the frame-rate jump from 53 up to 68. The rest of the time it constantly sits in the 60s (even up to the 80s at quite a few points), so performance is quite good all around on my system (i7 4770K, 16GB RAM, 3GB GTX 780), with everything maxed out, bar AA. I'm running quite old drivers as well, so it'll be interesting to see what difference newer drivers and Vulkan support will make. The visuals are quite slick and look a lot better than all the media I've seen, and the Alpha and Beta releases as well. The atmosphere is pretty decent too, and it was something that I hoped wouldn't be absent from the game, seeing as a lot of the footage was focused on the action side of things, although it's not something that is easily conveyed either.

I can't say much about the gameplay in regards to level design, layout etc., but I can say that the player movement did seem a bit faster than I remember. The game definitely has its own rhythm in regards to how you handle enemy encounters, and you can tell that it really is designed around this speed and the Glory Kills. Any faster and it would probably prove to be a bit unwieldy. The weapons didn't feel too punchy, but I suspect that could be down to not having upgrades on them. Not having the volume up all that much probably didn't help though.

Overall I am liking what I've seen so far. I guess it helps that I kept my hype levels pretty low, and didn't read too much info, hoping just to go along for the ride and see what surprises lay in store for me. Now, off to play some more!

[HulkNukem]

fuegerstef, on 12 May 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

What I find much worse than any misaligned textures in secret levels or unlit Areas in eastereggs is the SP-gameplay.

Yes, I bought it and played it for 15 minutes into the SP campaign.

<mild spoilers>
The atmosphere is IMHO (!!!!) worse than in DooM 3 and the weapons feel like they nerfed some Nerf guns. The arenas lock you in, because the station's AI tells you "doors cannot be unlocked as long as demons are in there". And the gameplay in the Arenas wasn't fun. You hunt the demons around and, they shoot at you ... but it all fells completely off. Of Course, tastes are differnet, but in Shadow Warrior (2013) or Hard Reset the enemies came at you and felt like a real threat that you can counter with your katana and guns (and although the guns in SW were weak they feel stronger than in DooM).
In DooM they run around and don't really feel like attacking you, although the AI MIGHT (don't know) try to look smart by having the demons run around for strategic positions to attack you, but it feels more like they run around randomly and then stand still now and then to shoot at you. I found it boring and unengaging. Look, in Serious Sam it got boring and repetitive in the later Levels. But at least the arenas were interesting and had much better gameplay. DooM bored me in the second Arena. It is weird, the demons and your weapons feel weak and the gameplay seems off due to that.
</mild spoilers>

I will get a refund and rebuy it in 2 years during the summer sale for $4,99 or so.


All just my personal opinion, of course.

EDIT:
And no, it wasn't my System. The game ran really smooth and controlling the player (aim and movement) felt tight and neat.

EDIT 2:
The speed of the player is really good. That really feels old school.

I mean, I can't stop you, but you should probably play more than 15 minutes to judge stuff like AI and all that. The beginning fodder enemies won't be as fun as fighting all the monsters mixed in at once

[Bloodshot]

Said as well "This game is fucking Doom, there's not a doubt in my mind. They absolutely nailed it."

Total biscuits opinion on it.