[ck3D]

[jkas789]

Oh yeah I saw that earlier today. I haven't finished the video but I'm hoping I'll finish listening to it tonight. Pretty interesting.

[NightFright]

It had completely skipped my attention that Parallel Doomensions had been released back in July already.



What is this? Well, think Dimension of the Boomed and you're on the right track. It's basically a Quake TC for Doom. Level design, monsters, weapons, items, music, sounds... It's as close as it might get. 28 levels (26 regular + 2 secret) have been made and they're quite good. All you need is a Boom-compatible port (e.g. Woof, DSDA-Doom or GZDoom) and you're set.

[jkas789]

boys we apparently getting a new version of Doom I & II.

[NNC]

Egad.

[NNC]

And in other words: This is the way old games should be treated. I'm looking at Pitchfork and the rest.

[NightFright]

The port update itself is irrelevant to me; I've adopted Woof as my permanent tool to run anything but GZDoom/Eternity stuff with it. However... that new episode got my undivided attention. Especially since it seems to have new weapons and monsters in it.

Anyway, if I understand it correctly, they are ditching Unity in favor of Nightdive's KEX. You gotta give it to the guys at id, they are not giving up on that game.

[Ninety-Six]

Well I guess my arch-nemesis wad is going to be available officially now. Oh boy. I notice Sigil 2 isn't listed on that note.

I hope this at least fixes the blockmap bug. I doubt it because they seem hellbent on keeping it but.



Also, while it does use the phrase "owners receive," I do wonder if this is an actual update to current owners or if it will be a separate product.

[NNC]

The new monsters don't look very good, beta lost soul and beta caco(?), and new weapons seem to replace plasma cells and BFG. The second map of the new episode is a very typical Doom usermap, they feel more apocryphal than canonic.

[NightFright]

Ninety-Six, on 08 August 2024 - 02:13 PM, said:

[...] I do wonder if this is an actual update to current owners or if it will be a separate product.

Well, if you own the Unity release (or the even older Classic version before that still), you're automatically upgraded. At least that's how it worked for me. But technically it's an all-new release which stands on its own. GOG and Steam already have it since a few hours and it's as if Unity had never existed before. Good news is that the new episode is fully compatible with existing ports (it's MBF21) out of the box. There's also a new (optional) soundtrack by Andrew Hulshult which seems to be quite something. Oh, and they've apparently also touched existing addons like the Master Levels (which is now a continuous episode like in masterlevels.wad, but with altered level order) and NRFTL (with new widescreen assets). The new port can also easily handle any existing PWADs out there now, no need to adjust them (like adding all assets from doom2.wad before, technically turning them into IWADs). It's a lot to take in on such a short notice.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 08 August 2024 - 09:27 PM, said:

Well, if you own the Unity release (or the even older Classic version before that still), you're automatically upgraded.

Oh, excellent.

NightFright, on 08 August 2024 - 09:27 PM, said:

At least that's how it worked for me.

I didn't realize it was out already. That was a very fast announcement -> release timeline.

NightFright, on 08 August 2024 - 09:27 PM, said:

Good news is that the new episode is fully compatible with existing ports (it's MBF21) out of the box.

According to the wiki it's a different standard called ID24 which was built off of MBF21.


That leaves me in a predicament. Most reliable port I have right now is LZDoom, whose last full update was before MBF21. It has suddenly re-started development and there's a pre-release build available. Unfortunately I find that even in software mode it just drops frames randomly, leading to "lurches" in the gameplay. Even on small vanilla-compatible maps with not much going on.

GZDoom is GZDoom and that's not really viable.

And every other source port is allergic to the very idea of having the bullets from my guns actually go to the thing I'm pointing at and not the wall behind it.

[NightFright]

GZDoom currently still doesn't work well with the new episode, but looking at Github, it's currently being handled and should be fixed within the next couple of days. Other ports like Woof run Legacy quite fine, even though some stuff like the new map ending screen is still missing.

The port itself still has what we call "child diseases" in Germany. Memory leaks with subsequent crashes, laggy mouse response in 60fps mode, sounds not reliably played, music restarted with every reload, actual vanilla mode not working via COMPLVL... Nightdive won't be bored in the next weeks and months. They also need to figure out a better way to upload pwads. Right now anyone can upload anything, including tons of crap, ownership theft and so on. Some sort of regulation will be required.

At the end of the day, it's a step forward, considering there's now proper Boom/MBF/MBF21 compatibility. That's about it. Advanced users will shrug and return to their favorite ports, as usual. At least we got a couple of new levels, even though it's more like a community release with some uncommon visual touches here and there. Similar to the "Dimension of the Machine" episode for the Quake Remaster, I'd say.

[Phredreeke]

Ninety-Six, on 09 August 2024 - 12:25 PM, said:

That leaves me in a predicament. Most reliable port I have right now is LZDoom, whose last full update was before MBF21. It has suddenly re-started development and there's a pre-release build available. Unfortunately I find that even in software mode it just drops frames randomly, leading to "lurches" in the gameplay. Even on small vanilla-compatible maps with not much going on.

GZDoom is GZDoom and that's not really viable.

If you need to use LZDoom for performance reasons try the GLES backend in latest GZDoom. It performs significantly better than the old OpenGL backend

[Ninety-Six]

Phredreeke, on 09 August 2024 - 08:03 PM, said:

If you need to use LZDoom for performance reasons try the GLES backend in latest GZDoom. It performs significantly better than the old OpenGL backend

The pre-release branch of LZDoom has that and uses that as the default. Same thing. It almost seems like it builds up over time, but I could also be seeing a pattern where there isn't one.

I can definitively say it hates walls though. The closer I am to one the lurchier it gets. For some reason.

[NightFright]

Now I finally get what this new ID24 standard is all about:
https://www.doomworl...e-set-standard/

Among other things, it makes customization of translations, status bars, finales, entering/finished screens or skies easier and more comprehensive. DEHACKED is also expanded.

That means right now, the only way to play the new episode properly is with the Nightdive port. It will take a while before others are catching up.

What's weird and confusing is that ID24 requires a certain file, id24res.wad, to be present. Other ports are supposed to detect and load that file before the main wad to establish compatibility. Main problem: Redistribution of id24res.wad is apparently illegal, so if I understand this correctly, there's no ID24 without owning the DOOM+DOOM II remaster.

Source:
https://www.doomworl...um/post/2831156

Update:
It's possible to replace the file content with custom stuff, so it's not too problematic, I guess. If you want to use sprites or sounds from the new episode, you need that file. Makes sense.

[NNC]

My initial joy went cold very fast, this release is not for me, sorry. The new episode owns all the typical usermap features of Doom I hate, and has nothing of the classic style I love. I play Sigil 2 again instead on HMP difficulty.

[NightFright]

There's currently a dispute going on about the new standard requiring a wad file which cannot be redistributed freely. They are trying to make excuses, but to me it seems like id/Bethesda simply wanted to impose a standard on their own after all the ones invented by the community. Alas, the changes are rather cosmetic as far as I can see, so the whole fuss people make about it seems hardly justified. I wouldn't be surprised if the modding community doesn't jump onto this hype train and sticks with the current standards which are easily accessible. I don't need animated statusbars or intermission screens in my Doom II mods to have fun, and probably also not anything from the new linedef ranges which might possibly be reserved for id's personal needs only.

Legacy of Rust is a vehicle to promote the new standard. At the end of the day, you get Xaser maps with Doom beta textures, some new (needless) enemies and two additional weapons (which cannot even remotely compete with the Plasma Gun and BFG, which they replace). If you dislike any of these aspects, you won't have a good time. This ain't Sigil 3 or a prelude to Hellion. It's a commercial community pack, at least by the looks of it. It shouldn't be overrated.

[Malgon]

ck3D, on 06 August 2024 - 09:01 AM, said:

Watched this last night and thought it was pretty interesting to hear from someone else from id's early days (his first interview as well according to the comments). Cool stuff.

[DNSKILL5]

Not a fan of the new port despite some cool stuff included, and much less a fan of the ass kissing I see over at Doomworld by clearly paid shills.

[Phredreeke]

NightFright, on 09 August 2024 - 11:23 PM, said:

What's weird and confusing is that ID24 requires a certain file, id24res.wad, to be present. Other ports are supposed to detect and load that file before the main wad to establish compatibility. Main problem: Redistribution of id24res.wad is apparently illegal, so if I understand this correctly, there's no ID24 without owning the DOOM+DOOM II remaster.

Source:
https://www.doomworl...um/post/2831156

Update:
It's possible to replace the file content with custom stuff, so it's not too problematic, I guess. If you want to use sprites or sounds from the new episode, you need that file. Makes sense.

To be fair, Doom+Doom 2 remaster is free to anyone who has the Doom Unity release (and the prior DOS-based Doom and Doom II releases on Steam and GOG)

People wanting the maximum compatibility for their mods should just stick with limit-removing or Boom/MBF. I'd expect other ports to support ID24 eventually. And as you say the dependency is if you want to use the new weapons and monsters, so just using the new mapping features should work without the new WAD.

DNSKILL5, on 12 August 2024 - 07:57 AM, said:

Not a fan of the new port despite some cool stuff included, and much less a fan of the ass kissing I see over at Doomworld by clearly paid shills.

I mean, it's not Quake 2 remaster levels of awesome, but it's still a step up from Doom Unity

[NightFright]

The main beef I have with this port is about the memory leaks and sluggish controls. Mouse input is very laggy, which is often an issue with Nightdive ports, unfortunately. Switching from Vulkan to D3D11 provides some improvement, however at the cost of 30-50% FPS. The biggest step forward has been made on the compatibility front. Where Unity could run little more than vanilla and selected limit-removing projects, D+D2 can even handle MBF21.

I'm sure they'll get it where it needs to be. Especially the mod upload section needs some cleanup. Right now you're almost better off loading pwads externally. This way at least you know nobody messed with original files to claim false ownership.

Besides: Quake Enhanced could also be updated for a change. AFAIK the port itself hasn't seen any change since its first release. For what it's worth, the whole thing has drawn my attention to the "Rum and Raisins" port by GooberMan on which the new ND port is based. Basically a pimped Chocolate Doom variant with highres/widescreen support and Heretic/Hexen support - in a single executable. It might form the foundation for potential Raven remasters in the future, provided the legal side allows it.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 12 August 2024 - 02:14 PM, said:

Switching from Vulkan to D3D11 provides some improvement, however at the cost of 30-50% FPS.

By D3D11 do you mean Direct3D?

[NightFright]

Yeah. The renderer is labeled "Direct3D11" in the ingame menu.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 12 August 2024 - 11:19 PM, said:

Yeah. The renderer is labeled "Direct3D11" in the ingame menu.

So the nightdive uses that old renderer, which I've learned is the reason I'm having issues with GZ/LZ in software mode (because they removed it).



So my choices are either play Legacy of Rust with broken hitscan or play Legacy of Rust with broken framerate. Awesome.

[NightFright]

The Nightdive port supports Vulkan (default), Direct3D 11 and software. You can also play the addon fine in "external" ports like DSDA-Doom or Woof. The latter is going to receive support for LoR's intermission screens soon. The maps themselves are MBF21-compliant and should be playable in any port which supports that standard. Cannot 100% confirm however since I'm currently doing my first playthrough in the native port still.

[Phredreeke]

As I understand, the Vulkan/Direct3D11/Software option is only in regard to the backend, the game itself is always software rendered.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 13 August 2024 - 12:33 AM, said:

You can also play the addon fine in "external" ports like DSDA-Doom or Woof. The latter is going to receive support for LoR's intermission screens soon. The maps themselves are MBF21-compliant and should be playable in any port which supports that standard.

That still leads to the exact same issue, as the previous full version of LZDoom didn't have MBF21. MBF21 wads were already a problem that I was hoping to worry about when I got there, but now LoR happened and I'm really screwed here.

My choices are current GZ/LZ, which don't use D3D, so they run like crap for me. D3D, as it turns out, was the magic sauce and without it the game lurches constantly.

The other options are every other source port, all of which refuse to fix the blockmap bug. For some reason. They can. They just won't. And this includes both official remasters.

Phredreeke, on 13 August 2024 - 02:10 AM, said:

As I understand, the Vulkan/Direct3D11/Software option is only in regard to the backend, the game itself is always software rendered.

If we're talking ND, yeah it runs just fine. It defaults to D3D on my machine and runs perfectly smooth. Just as LZ did before the newest branch strangled it to death.

[NightFright]

Software rendering would make sense since the whole thing is based on "Rum and Raisins", which is Chocolate Doom on steroids.

[Phredreeke]

Ninety-Six, on 13 August 2024 - 02:44 AM, said:

The other options are every other source port, all of which refuse to fix the blockmap bug. For some reason. They can. They just won't. And this includes both official remasters.

Doom Retro fixes the blockmap bug. It's software rendering only but if you were using D3D for older LZDoom versions then you were already used to that.

[Ninety-Six]

Phredreeke, on 13 August 2024 - 05:57 AM, said:

Doom Retro fixes the blockmap bug. It's software rendering only but if you were using D3D for older LZDoom versions then you were already used to that.

That's fantastic news, actually. And I almost exclusively play in software mode, anyway. The only time I use hardware rendering is if it's a mod that was really built for it (like Golden Souls), and if my dumb machine can handle it. But for regular classic Doom and mods thereof, I use software exclusively (Which is what made the lurching so frustrating. Because they nuked D3D which was in there just for software (not that hardware performed any better).

According to the wiki it goes up to MBF21 so that's a good start. I think I remember looking over this port before but didn't see blockmap fix being specified. I remember trying out several of the popular non-Z source ports, all of which gave a big negative on fixing that damned bug. I saw one small port that mentioned fixing the bug, but it was limit-removing only.


Thank you very much.